North Korea Deal

KillerGopherFan

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So you're saying that NK had an American citizen in their custody and KJU had no idea he was being physically harmed? That the only responsibility KJU bore was general accountability over everything that his government does? Come on.

This is what we've come to now. Not only Trump defending KJU, but his supporters as well.
Did you not read the critical part of my post? Unable to process that?

I said precisely that he should have said that Kim IS responsible for what his government does. I don’t believe Kim’s denial, but it is irrelevant. Kim is responsible.

How is that defending Trump or Kim?
 

KillerGopherFan

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If the choice is stand up for you or try to end the communist totalitarian rule of a rogue nuclear state which endangers the world and has resulted in misery and poverty and starvation for millions of people, yeah you're expendable.
I agree. It appears that he’s attempting to stop with the pointless points scoring and negotiate for something that is truly significant.

I guess the Lefties want to go to war over Kim not admitting that he was responsible for Otto Warmbier’s death.
 

bottlebass

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I agree. It appears that he’s attempting to stop with the pointless points scoring and negotiate for something that is truly significant.

I guess the Lefties want to go to war over Kim not admitting that he was responsible for Otto Warmbier’s death.
No one has said that.
 

KillerGopherFan

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I say with all seriousness--it might be time for him to stop the leader to leader diplomacy.
Nothing...absolutely nothing would satisfy the Left short of Kim completely abandoning his nuclear program. Anything less, they will criticize Trump’s efforts. Based on past history, that is a ridiculous standard to expect.

I don’t like Trump’s choice of rhetoric following some of these diplomatic meetings, but most of it is strategic. Some of it, like suggesting he takes Kim at his word is just a complete lack of preparation to answer gotcha questions.
 

KillerGopherFan

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No one has said that.
I’m just playing the same game that justhenarrative is. I know that no one said that.

But if he’s going to suggest that the Right is defending Kim, I don’t see much difference.

I make that jump b/c it appears that the Left wanted Trump to blame Kim personally, take him to task, regardless of what his reaction would be b/c I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be a happy reaction.
 

justthefacts

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Nothing...absolutely nothing would satisfy the Left short of Kim completely abandoning his nuclear program. Anything less, they will criticize Trump’s efforts. Based on past history, that is a ridiculous standard to expect.

I don’t like Trump’s choice of rhetoric following some of these diplomatic meetings, but most of it is strategic. Some of it, like suggesting he takes Kim at his word is just a complete lack of preparation to answer gotcha questions.
Why does he praise Putin and MBS and KJU, but only denigrate our actual allies? Why is that always his strategy?

"Gotcha questions" like asking whether they discussed the American the North Koreans killed. He says he already talked to KJU about it, so how could he not have been prepared to answer that question?
 

saintpaulguy

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I agree. It appears that he’s attempting to stop with the pointless points scoring and negotiate for something that is truly significant.

I guess the Lefties want to go to war over Kim not admitting that he was responsible for Otto Warmbier’s death.
Kim isn't going to admit it. But it would be nice if the President of the United States wasn't backed into supporting the alibi.
 

bottlebass

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I’m just playing the same game that justhenarrative is. I know that no one said that.

But if he’s going to suggest that the Right is defending Kim, I don’t see much difference.

I make that jump b/c it appears that the Left wanted Trump to blame Kim personally, take him to task, regardless of what his reaction would be b/c I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be a happy reaction.
He doesn't have to take him to task over it, but it is OK to blame him personally. You can't be dumb enough to think NK had an American in their custody and JKU wasn't involved with every step of every interrogation and getting updates constantly. Openly defending JKU the way Trump did is spitting in the face of Warbier's family then kicking them when they are down. Trump has touted over and over he's "America first". He's said it a million times and his supporters have screamed it back a million times. In this instance he chose Kimmy the rocket man over an American.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Why does he praise Putin and MBS and KJU, but only denigrate our actual allies? Why is that always his strategy?

"Gotcha questions" like asking whether they discussed the American the North Koreans killed. He says he already talked to KJU about it, so how could he not have been prepared to answer that question?
What is the point of asking such a question? It has been discussed at length. Is ANYTHING positive going to come from it?

I realize it was the not too distant past, but there’s no point to that line of questioning. It’s not going to change a thing.

They’re negotiating for christ’s sakes. It’s like bringing up Pearl Harbor when negotiating with the Japanese or Hitler with Germany.

He uses praise to gain favor. We don’t need to gain favor with our allies. We need our allies to start treating us like allies instead of sugardaddys.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Kim isn't going to admit it. But it would be nice if the President of the United States wasn't backed into supporting the alibi.
I agree. It was dumb of Trump. He is reckless and doesn’t think through some things he says at the spur of the moment.
 

KillerGopherFan

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He doesn't have to take him to task over it, but it is OK to blame him personally. You can't be dumb enough to think NK had an American in their custody and JKU wasn't involved with every step of every interrogation and getting updates constantly. Openly defending JKU the way Trump did is spitting in the face of Warbier's family then kicking them when they are down. Trump has touted over and over he's "America first". He's said it a million times and his supporters have screamed it back a million times. In this instance he chose Kimmy the rocket man over an American.
See my previous post.
 

KillerGopherFan

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If you truly think that then you wouldn't have said what you did that I responded to.
I’m not sure which response you’re talking about.

I don’t think Trump should’ve contended that Kim was personally responsible for OW b/c Kim knew what was going on. He was personally responsible for his country’s treatment of OW. That’s all that matters. And, you don’t offend OW’s family or kick sand in Kim’s face with that type of an answer.
 

GopherJake

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I agree. It was dumb of Trump. He is reckless and doesn’t think through some things he says at the spur of the moment.
Implicit excuse-making, akin to "I was drunk when I hit you, baby, I didn't mean it." Stop excusing his "spur of the moment" missteps. This one was $hitting on the family of an American. Great president.
 

GopherJake

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you don’t offend OW’s family or kick sand in Kim’s face with that type of an answer.
Since when does Don care about kicking sand in anyone's face? Oh, I know! Is it if you are a brutal dictator of an enemy nation?
 

KillerGopherFan

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Implicit excuse-making, akin to "I was drunk when I hit you, baby, I didn't mean it." Stop excusing his "spur of the moment" missteps. This one was $hitting on the family of an American. Great president.
Personally, I don’t excuse people for being drunk, then not being accountable for their actions.

It sucks either way. I just don’t have an inherent hate for him like you do.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Since when does Don care about kicking sand in anyone's face? Oh, I know! Is it if you are a brutal dictator of an enemy nation?
I suppose you’d want him to react emotionally instead of trying appeasement about some past transgression that can’t be changed. That’d be dumb.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Some of you Lefties just don’t know how to take ‘I agree with you’ for an answer.
 

GopherJake

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I suppose you’d want him to react emotionally instead of trying appeasement about some past transgression that can’t be changed. That’d be dumb.
Appeasement? Yeah, that always works. Just ask Neville.
 

bottlebass

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Some of you Lefties just don’t know how to take ‘I agree with you’ for an answer.
You didn't just agree, you made excuses and tried to justify it and then make false claims about what the lefties are saying.
 

KillerGopherFan

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You aren't agreeing. You are excusing.
What part of it was “horrible”, “dumb”, “reckless”, I “don’t like his (Trump’s) rhetoric”, and “it’s a complete lack of preparation” don’t you understand?
 

KillerGopherFan

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You didn't just agree, you made excuses and tried to justify it and then make false claims about what the lefties are saying.
True, I didn’t agree with 100% of the hyper-partisan take of all the Trump haters.
 

bottlebass

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True, I didn’t agree with 100% of the hyper-partisan take of all the Trump haters.
I have definitely not been a trump hater in this thread, I've supported him as much as anybody on the topic of NK deal talks.
 

GopherJake

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What part of it was “horrible”, “dumb”, “reckless”, I “don’t like his (Trump’s) rhetoric”, and “it’s a complete lack of preparation” don’t you understand?
I think I already covered that, but this implicit excusing:

I agree. It was dumb of Trump. He is reckless and doesn’t think through some things he says at the spur of the moment.
But especially this:

I suppose you’d want him to react emotionally instead of trying appeasement about some past transgression that can’t be changed. That’d be dumb.
No use holding him accountable. The guy is already dead. He ain't coming back to life. :confused:
 

Sportsfan24

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Some of you Lefties just don’t know how to take ‘I agree with you’ for an answer.
I feel your pain but I understand where they are coming from. You would have been better served if you would have left your initial post solely to criticizing what Trump did. Future posts on the subject could have been left for nuances.

I commend you on acknowledging Trump erred.

Some folks think they have to blindly support and justify everything “their” guy does. Bill Clinton was and is my dude but he f’d up horrible with the Monica stuff and it cost us a Gore Presidency (because the idiot distanced himself from Clinton.)


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KillerGopherFan

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I think I already covered that, but this implicit excusing:



But especially this:

No use holding him accountable. The guy is already dead. He ain't coming back to life. :confused:
He’s been held accountable. What do you think should have been done besides all of the oppressive sanctions being placed on NK?
 

KillerGopherFan

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I feel your pain but I understand where they are coming from. You would have been better served if you would have left your initial post solely to criticizing what Trump did. Future posts on the subject could have been left for nuances.

I commend you on acknowledging Trump erred.

Some folks think they have to blindly support and justify everything “their” guy does. Bill Clinton was and is my dude but he f’d up horrible with the Monica stuff and it cost us a Gore Presidency (because the idiot distanced himself from Clinton.)
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I say what I believe. If I believe that Politico was being biased, I call it out. If I think there are circumstances that justify not freaking out on Kim long after it was settled that Kim was responsible for the sake of greater needs that involve our future with NK, I’ll say that too.
 
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