Nigel Hayes: “We’re not student athletes. We’re here to play sports."

underground629

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I'm surprised so many people on here think players don't deserve better considering the amount of money they're generating. Why shouldn't they be able to make money from their own brand? Why shouldn't they receive a small percentage on sales of their own jersey? Why shouldn't they be allowed to make money by signing their autograph? The NCAA has plenty of extra money to share with the players delivering the product that generates billions.
 

GophersInIowa

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man i knew gh as a whole wouldnt be supportive but damn.

a lot of athletic departments are making big money from these kids, and while outright paying them (and destroying what's left of amateurism) is likely not the answer something more has to be done to ensure these kids are taken care of even if its just a fraction of the profits being pulled in.

d3 to d1 comparisons for the sake of this discussion are worthless thanks for those who have already made that point
A lot of athletic departments bring in a lot of money, but they also have huge expenses. People like to bring up the money that is coming in, but don't mention the money that is also going out.
 

westcoastgopher11

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A lot of athletic departments bring in a lot of money, but they also have huge expenses. People like to bring up the money that is coming in, but don't mention the money that is also going out.
yea i mean some places are racking in tens of millions in profits and some are breaking even thats cool maybe it would be a good idea to regulate ADs so any profit above X% needs to be reinvested somewhere in the university.

cant deny the kids are the ones getting screwed over considering the amount of time they put in
 

GophersInIowa

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I'm surprised so many people on here think players don't deserve better considering the amount of money they're generating. Why shouldn't they be able to make money from their own brand? Why shouldn't they receive a small percentage on sales of their own jersey? Why shouldn't they be allowed to make money by signing their autograph? The NCAA has plenty of extra money to share with the players delivering the product that generates billions.
I have no problem with some of those things. I do have a problem with people like Hayes acting like they're poor athletes.
 

dpodoll68

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The leagues you're speaking of wouldn't work because they wouldn't have the massive built-in fan bases like big universities do.
Bingo! That further reinforces my point. Massive built-in fan bases didn't come for free - who put in the time and money over decades/centuries to make that happen?
 

dpodoll68

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I'm surprised so many people on here think players don't deserve better considering the amount of money they're generating. Why shouldn't they be able to make money from their own brand? Why shouldn't they receive a small percentage on sales of their own jersey? Why shouldn't they be allowed to make money by signing their autograph? The NCAA has plenty of extra money to share with the players delivering the product that generates billions.
Because boosters could "pay" them a million dollars for their signature, thus defeating the entire premise at a base level.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Bingo! That further reinforces my point. Massive built-in fan bases didn't come for free - who put in the time and money over decades/centuries to make that happen?
Players also put in time and universities have been making money for decades to make it happen. It's not like the Universities just started making money off of this stuff.

A lot of the people who adhere to this line of thinking only really adhere to it for college athletics.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Because boosters could "pay" them a million dollars for their signature, thus defeating the entire premise at a base level.
What's the problem with that?

Why should a person not be allowed to be paid a million dollars for their signature?
 

Winasota Gopher

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Bingo! That further reinforces my point. Massive built-in fan bases didn't come for free - who put in the time and money over decades/centuries to make that happen?
If universities COULD pay players without fear of repercussions from NCAA don't you think they would pay these kids more than they do now?
 

dpodoll68

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Players also put in time and universities have been making money for decades to make it happen. It's not like the Universities just started making money off of this stuff.

A lot of the people who adhere to this line of thinking only really adhere to it for college athletics.
A lot of the people who think that college athletes should be paid think that free market economics don't apply to college athletics. Universities are offering a deal that has value - whether or not that deal has value to the player is not the fault of the university. Anyone accepting a scholarship knows the parameters of the situation; they are free to seek a better deal elsewhere. The fact that most high school athletes would give their firstborn for a scholarship shows that it has value to most and that it easily has more value than competing alternatives.

I ask again - if it were profitable to pay 18-year-old athletes to play professional football and basketball in the United States, why is no one doing it? Why is it the fault of the universities that the deal they are offering is by far the best one available? They aren't doing anything illegal or unethical, though people like to pretend that they are? Why should they be forced to alter their entire system because they have no competition?
 

dpodoll68

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What's the problem with that?

Why should a person not be allowed to be paid a million dollars for their signature?
Why should the NCAA not be allowed to regulate the practices of its member institutions? If the New England Patriots paid Tom Brady a million dollar bonus under the table for his signature so it wouldn't count against the salary cap, I presume you would be fine with the NFL bringing the hammer down on them, correct? How is the NCAA any different? Why can they not set their own guidelines and hand out punishments as they see fit for people who don't adhere to those guidelines?
 

dpodoll68

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If universities COULD pay players without fear of repercussions from NCAA don't you think they would pay these kids more than they do now?
If the Vikings or Timberwolves or Wild COULD pay players whatever they wanted to get them to come to their teams, don't you think they would pay them more than they do now? Salary caps are ok for pro sports, but limits on compensation for amateur athletes isn't ok?
 

station19

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How m any students work a full time job to help pay for their education?
 

DLguy

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Do you consider full time for the players to include practice, film time and team meetings? Or do you also consider mandatory study groups and weight training. The latter I would not consider part of the job, as any student would love to have a professional staff keeping you healthy and in shape and private tutors helping you maximize your collage education.

To answer your question, many students work many more hours a week than athletes do considering their commitment to their sport. And that is during the season for those athletes. During the season, athletes do not put in what would be considered a full time job. During the offseason, you wouldnt even be able to consider it close to a part time job. A regular student paying their own way has it a lot harder than any athlete.
 

Winasota Gopher

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If the Vikings or Timberwolves or Wild COULD pay players whatever they wanted to get them to come to their teams, don't you think they would pay them more than they do now? Salary caps are ok for pro sports, but limits on compensation for amateur athletes isn't ok?
They are "amateurs" because they are unpaid. Then your argument is that they are being paid but it's limited.... Pick an argument.

Also, one is collectively bargained one isn't. That's a huge piece you're failing to include.

Full disclosure, I'm not for paying athletes as I personally like it the way it is, it makes me feel better about college sports. I like lying to myself that these kids aren't doing it for money (not for them anyway). I don't think it's "FAIR" in the light of all the other bull**** that's going on socially in this country.

I do think the athletes deserve a part of the pie or need to be able to make money off of themselves in some way or form. If there is a way to do that and still hold dear to this idea of "amateurism" then I'd be much happier.
 

DLguy

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NCAA rules allow 20 hours a week during the season and 8 during the offseason. This includes weight training, film, meetings, and practice.

Estimating a 5 month season, and 7 month offseason, that is 624 hours of "work" per year.

Let's say with tuition, housing and food and the stipend, they are getting $50,000 each year, which is most likely on the low end and doesn't consider the value of the coaching, training and facilities.

$50,000/624 hours is roughly $80/hour in "pay". To say these kids are getting a bad deal and comparing them to regular students working actual jobs is a little unfair.
 

Winasota Gopher

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NCAA rules allow 20 hours a week during the season and 8 during the offseason. This includes weight training, film, meetings, and practice.

Estimating a 5 month season, and 7 month offseason, that is 624 hours of "work" per year.

Let's say with tuition, housing and food and the stipend, they are getting $50,000 each year, which is most likely on the low end and doesn't consider the value of the coaching, training and facilities.

$50,000/624 hours is roughly $80/hour in "pay". To say these kids are getting a bad deal and comparing them to regular students working actual jobs is a little unfair.
What if they want to make more?
 

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What if they want to make more?
wisconsin bb players receive about $500/month as a stipend.

And below is from a "regular" student at Iowa St:

"That isn't too bad considering my work study program in school had me only working at a max 16 hours a week. That came out to about $464 dollars a month. Being that it was work study 50% of that went back to help pay tuition. So my take home was only $232. To work out I joined the Ultimate team which was 10 hours a week for practice and a weekend long tournament once a month."
 

DLguy

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What if they want to make more?
Pretty sure leagues all around the world pay more money. Nothing stopping them from going that route.

Are you an advocate for med school students getting paid more? They do a lot of work in the hospitals that make those hospitals a lot of money. Especially when they are in rotations, fellowships and resident programs. In fact many in the medical field still pay tuition while in rotations. Where is the outcry for them?
 

Winasota Gopher

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Pretty sure leagues all around the world pay more money. Nothing stopping them from going that route.

Are you an advocate for med school students getting paid more? They do a lot of work in the hospitals that make those hospitals a lot of money. Especially when they are in rotations, fellowships and resident programs. In fact many in the medical field still pay tuition while in rotations. Where is the outcry for them?
That is such an apples and oranges argument. 1st off, the residents ARE getting paid, and are not restricted from doing other things. There is nothing saying they cannot hold a side job, nothing saying they cannot run a business giving free consulting online (maybe ethically but you get my point). 2nd there is a direct relationship and training/on the job requirement for that. Nowhere in the NBA does it say you need to have xyz training to get a job here. Just says you gotta be good at basketball and for some stupid reason, you have to be a year removed from high school.

There is no comparison situation. The NCAA has unfairly utilized talented college-aged kids to develop a brand and product that makes them a fortune. I'm not advocating for anything, I love NCAA sports and would hate for it to change. I just think it's ridiculous for people to try and justify it through countless illegitimate comparisons. I'm open and honest, SOME of those kids are getting more than they deserve, and others, not enough.

Take the stupid restrictions off, or pay them a larger stipend that correlates with their jersey sales or something similar to shut this noise up and move on. Somehow when the school benefits from a the product on the floor at an EXPONENTIAL RATE there should be some kick back to the performers. Figure it out, it's not hard to shut this up.

wisconsin bb players receive about $500/month as a stipend.

And below is from a "regular" student at Iowa St:

"That isn't too bad considering my work study program in school had me only working at a max 16 hours a week. That came out to about $464 dollars a month. Being that it was work study 50% of that went back to help pay tuition. So my take home was only $232. To work out I joined the Ultimate team which was 10 hours a week for practice and a weekend long tournament once a month."
That regular student is contributing quite mightily to the $100 million dollar shoe endorsement. His opinion is relevant.
 

DLguy

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You keep saying the schools are making a fortune. They are non-profits. Many of them are actually being subsidized by the school, as they are not self sufficient. Should those schools have their players pay a fee to cover all those expenses? The U is barely breaking even. Where is all this extra money going to come from? That Nike money goes to pay for all of the insane amount of free clothing these athletes get, and to improve their facilities, which they all demand while being recruited. There aren't piles of money laying around to be divided out for players. And only a handful of programs would be able to afford to pay players, which would put all other schools at a huge disadvantage, or possibly make it necessary to just shut down those programs.
 

Winasota Gopher

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You keep saying the schools are making a fortune. They are non-profits. Many of them are actually being subsidized by the school, as they are not self sufficient. Should those schools have their players pay a fee to cover all those expenses? The U is barely breaking even. Where is all this extra money going to come from? That Nike money goes to pay for all of the insane amount of free clothing these athletes get, and to improve their facilities, which they all demand while being recruited. There aren't piles of money laying around to be divided out for players. And only a handful of programs would be able to afford to pay players, which would put all other schools at a huge disadvantage, or possibly make it necessary to just shut down those programs.
Find me one time I said the schools are making a fortune. If I did, I did in error. I've consistently stated someone is making a fortune, usually citing the NCAA. I do not buy into the argument they are "breaking even" or "not for profit", they are expensing their way to not making a profit is what that is. Truly not for profit operations usually don't have multi milion dollar leaders and buy out agreements for termination of those not for profit leaders. (Major exceptions on the top end of this argument, you get the point)

That said, I'm not talking bank breaking figures here. If there was some way to share revenue, share benefit I think it needs to happen. The concept of the NCAA was created at a time where there wasn't "March Madness" on TV making billions of dollars, there weren't shoe deals or TV Deals that brought in millions of dollars. The fact is, the athletes reap 0 benefits from the added revenue their actions produce. Just give them something that moves with the pendulum. Like I said a % of a jersey sale, a % of the team's endorsement deal. A trust fund payable upon graduation based on the % of revenue the team generated. Anything to eliminate the idea of them not benefiting in the same relationship as the industry as their star grows.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Pretty sure leagues all around the world pay more money. Nothing stopping them from going that route.

Are you an advocate for med school students getting paid more? They do a lot of work in the hospitals that make those hospitals a lot of money. Especially when they are in rotations, fellowships and resident programs. In fact many in the medical field still pay tuition while in rotations. Where is the outcry for them?
If a school wanted to pay med school students a ton of money to make sure that they had the cream of the crop, I would be all for those students getting paid.

If someone wanted to pay those med school students for their autographs, they should be allowed to get paid.

If the market dictating paying them more money, I am all for it.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

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If a school wanted to pay med school students a ton of money to make sure that they had the cream of the crop, I would be all for those students getting paid.

If someone wanted to pay those med school students for their autographs, they should be allowed to get paid.

If the market dictating paying them more money, I am all for it.
If the market dictated giving these kids a better offer to play sports, then they would be somewhere else getting a better offer to play sports. If that really is what the market dictated, we would have semi-pro leagues and teams popping up all over the country attracting many of the kids by paying them a salary now and not making them deal with all the school stuff and NCAA rules.
 

Goph4phan

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This is America. I was a decently lousy basketball player in HS but I would have accepted in a heartbeat if someone would have offered me a scholarship. I love(d) to play the game.
If you don't like how the figures come out, don't accept the scholarship offer. And if you do, work hard for it.

I have very good friends who live in beautiful houses, drive new cars and have the money to buy very nice things. These people had full scholarships that "exploited" them, and made money off of their "brand."
I can tell you that they are very thankful for what this great university provided for them. And I know when I tell them about my student loan bills, they cringe.

This comes down to the freedom of choice. It's the root of it. Simple as that.
 

Winasota Gopher

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This is America. I was a decently lousy basketball player in HS but I would have accepted in a heartbeat if someone would have offered me a scholarship. I love(d) to play the game.
If you don't like how the figures come out, don't accept the scholarship offer. And if you do, work hard for it.

I have very good friends who live in beautiful houses, drive new cars and have the money to buy very nice things. These people had full scholarships that "exploited" them, and made money off of their "brand."
I can tell you that they are very thankful for what this great university provided for them. And I know when I tell them about my student loan bills, they cringe.

This comes down to the freedom of choice. It's the root of it. Simple as that.
Did your friends play basketball or football at the U?
 

Goph4phan

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Good, I was hoping your post had some relevance. Because the "this is America" line is pure gold.
Lots of relevance here. Several thankful young men. Most of them who were hired at great paying jobs despite coming from next to nothing or below middle class families. Because of their "brand" being "exploited" and their name being known.
 

Winasota Gopher

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The only way that has relevance is if someone is arguing the scholarship and schooling is worthless, which I've never read by anyone on this subject.
 
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