Next Gopher Head Coach

builtbadgers

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You misunderstand my post.
Just saying that that your dream scenario of the 36% coach getting fired will likely occur if this season doesnt go well.
I do not have that dream either. I have the hope he will win the conference and keep his job. Win the job, win something.
 

golf

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I do not have that dream either. I have the hope he will win the conference and keep his job. Win the job, win something.
Right. Even on the football forum, where pitino is very rarely mentioned, yesterday he was and the builtbatsignal went out. Very quickly a post appeared reminding all of pitino's conference record. Anyway, certainly nothing wrong with wanting a change - you are not the only one.
 
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builtbadgers

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Right. Even on the football forum, where pitino is very rarely mentioned, yesterday he was and the builtbatsignal went out. Very quickly a post appeared reminding all of pitino's conference record. Anyway, certainly nothing wrong with wanting a change - you are not the only one.
Just have my own opinion of what bad is, what average is, what good is and what great is. Literally go off historical data of how long it takes and what actually gets built and how it gets built. With all that said i still hope he wins now so we do not have to go through another search.
 

Great Plains Gopher

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Coyle punted when he had the chance. Not gonna happen barring epic collapse.
This year will be an epic collapse. But still, do we have to go through this yet again? How about spending some money for top notch coordinators and let PJ do the CEO, cheerleading for funds, help with recruiting, rah rah, all of which he's good at. Leave the X,s and O,s to someone else.
 

BarnBurner

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Just have my own opinion of what bad is, what average is, what good is and what great is. Literally go off historical data of how long it takes and what actually gets built and how it gets built. With all that said i still hope he wins now so we do not have to go through another search.
Badger. Fraud.
 

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This is just a sad commentary on the fanbase.

We have a very good crop of players, many with NBA potential. Excitement for the upcoming season, and you have a thread like this... just pathetic.
Who is NBA caliber on this team?
 

alaska

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Where does all of the Richard Loyalty come from. The program has basically sucked since he got here. Big ten record is really bad. We got a win in the NCAA tournament. WOW! I'm so excited for a random win in the NCAA. The rebuild or time to build something is up. How long will it take!? How long do we allow mediocrity?
 

manderson1984

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5 NBA caliber players on this team. We should be in the top 10 preseason rankings.
Lol, not so fast. NBA players doesn't always translate to winning and losing. It just shows there is talent. College basketball winning formula is more about being old than having NBA guys. This roster in my opinion is top 6 in the B1G talent wise. As far as experience it's bottom 4. We will see how our coach does with them. If he gets them to defend we will win a lot. If he doesn't we will be bottom half.
 

leib0039

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I would set the O/U on "NBA players" at 0.5. Robbins has a shot because he is tall and Gach has a shot because hes long/versatile. Carr is not an NBA player, and neither is Ihnen. I havent seen mash but I have my doubts a 6'1 guy can make it without really shooting the lights out or being crazy explosive. This doesnt mean they arent great college players, Carr is spectacular and going to be super fun this year. Same thing I said with Oturu, people on this board saying he is a top 10 pick and going to be an NBA star are simply not familiar with the NBA. Doesnt mean I dont love him or that he isnt a great college player, just that doesnt always translate.
 

cjbfbp

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Lol, not so fast. NBA players doesn't always translate to winning and losing. It just shows there is talent. College basketball winning formula is more about being old than having NBA guys. This roster in my opinion is top 6 in the B1G talent wise. As far as experience it's bottom 4. We will see how our coach does with them. If he gets them to defend we will win a lot. If he doesn't we will be bottom half.
All things considered, I'd say this team is sufficiently "old."

Two fifth year players: Curry and Brandon Johnson
One fourth year junior: Marcus Carr
Four third year juniors: Kalscheur, Gach, Robbins, Omersa
Three second year sophs: Williams, Ihnen, Freeman
Three first year freshmen: Mutaff, Mashburn, and Mitchell

7 of the 13 scholarship players are juniors or older. Of the four third year juniors, 3 were starters on their teams as sophs. The first two sophs got a lot of playing time as freshmen.
 

MplsGopher

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Liam Robbins is. Carr has a chance, so does Mashburn, Gach, and Ihnen.
How lucky were we that Robbins' uncle is a coach on our team, and so was able to sign him as a free-agent???

Oops ... sorry ... this is NCAA. I mean that, Robbins was looking for a more diverse offering of academic programs.
 

manderson1984

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I would set the O/U on "NBA players" at 0.5. Robbins has a shot because he is tall and Gach has a shot because hes long/versatile. Carr is not an NBA player, and neither is Ihnen. I havent seen mash but I have my doubts a 6'1 guy can make it without really shooting the lights out or being crazy explosive. This doesnt mean they arent great college players, Carr is spectacular and going to be super fun this year. Same thing I said with Oturu, people on this board saying he is a top 10 pick and going to be an NBA star are simply not familiar with the NBA. Doesnt mean I dont love him or that he isnt a great college player, just that doesnt always translate.
What do you consider a "NBA Player". Consistent rotation guys? Sure .5 is reasonable becuase of how hard it is to be that. The guys I listed above will most likely get summer league invites and have shots at the d league (except for maybe Ihnen and we will see about Mash). They may choose to go overseas and make more money however. The window to make money is short as you know. Also Oturo's game will translate fine to the NBA if he continues to work and develop his perimeter game as he has. I don't know how he doesn't fit in the NBA?
 

manderson1984

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All things considered, I'd say this team is sufficiently "old."

Two fifth year players: Curry and Brandon Johnson
One fourth year junior: Marcus Carr
Four third year juniors: Kalscheur, Gach, Robbins, Omersa
Three second year sophs: Williams, Ihnen, Freeman
Three first year freshmen: Mutaff, Mashburn, and Mitchell

7 of the 13 scholarship players are juniors or older. Of the four third year juniors, 3 were starters on their teams as sophs. The first two sophs got a lot of playing time as freshmen.
Agreed on the old. Experienced? Can be debated as they haven't played together and many haven't played in the B1G. I could've explained that part better.
 

die hard gopher

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Liam Robbins is. Carr has a chance, so does Mashburn, Gach, and Ihnen.
Gach, Carr, Liam and Ihnen all have an outside chance at making the league but ultimately I don't think any of them will.

Ihnen has a shot but the same way Charles Buggs had a shot meaning we are only basing this off his physical attributes and skill, not what he has done on the court. He has a long ways to go.

With Liam it will be an uphill battle because the NBA has moved away from traditional centers and has opted for smaller lineups and the centers who do play are mostly above the rim athletes who get used as rim runners, rim protectors and lob threats like Javale Mcgee or Cauley-Stein which isn't Robbins game. And if he was NBA caliber, I'd like to see him put up better numbers at Drake.

With Carr, it will be an outside chance for the same reason it was with Nate Mason, just doesn't have the combination of size, speed and quickness to translate to the NBA level. Same for Mashburn but Mash needs to get to a Carr or Mason's level before we even think NBA is a chance. I actually think Gabe has a better chance than Mashburn right now and thats not saying much.

I do think Gach has the best chance, he just looks most like an NBA player with his size for his position, athleticism and one on one game. Watching his highlight tape, and of course I know it's just a highlight tape, but he reminded me of Zach Lavine at UCLA. Lavine is obviously a better athlete and also was a better shooter, but just his game and how Gach could get to the rim and finish reminded me of that. Obviously not saying Gach will be anywhere near Lavine, just that his game reminds me most of an NBA game.

Still though, he needs to make big improvements and thats just to sign a two way contract. Amir as a freshman was better than Gach as a sophomore and it took Amir two more years just to go undrafted and sign a two way contract and Gach has a ways to go just to get to the level Amir was at junior year which didn't even get him drafted.

With Amir and Oturu, I always felt that the chances of them making the NBA were above 50%. With Gach, Liam, Carr and Robbins, the chances are definitely well below 50% but not outside the realm of possibility.
 
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die hard gopher

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What do you consider a "NBA Player". Consistent rotation guys? Sure .5 is reasonable becuase of how hard it is to be that. The guys I listed above will most likely get summer league invites and have shots at the d league (except for maybe Ihnen and we will see about Mash). They may choose to go overseas and make more money however. The window to make money is short as you know. Also Oturo's game will translate fine to the NBA if he continues to work and develop his perimeter game as he has. I don't know how he doesn't fit in the NBA?
Agree on Oturu. I think he has a good chance to be a 10 and 7 solid starter like Gorgui Dieng. I can definitely understand why scouts don't think why somebody like Garza's game will translate to the NBA, just too unathletic, or Jordan Murphy, but I think Oturu has the requisite length and athleticism that will translate and Oturu is very reminiscent of what the modern NBA center has become.
 

manderson1984

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Gach, Carr, Liam and Ihnen all have an outside chance at making the league but ultimately I don't think any of them will.

Ihnen has a shot but the same way Charles Buggs had a shot meaning we are only basing this off his physical attributes and skill, not what he has done on the court. He has a long ways to go.

With Liam it will be an uphill battle because the NBA has moved away from traditional centers and has opted for smaller lineups and the centers who do play are mostly above the rim athletes who get used as rim runners, rim protectors and lob threats like Javale Mcgee or Cauley-Stein which isn't Robbins game. And if he was NBA caliber, I'd like to see him put up better numbers at Drake.

With Carr, it will be an outside chance for the same reason it was with Nate Mason, just doesn't have the combination of size, speed and quickness to translate to the NBA level. Same for Mashburn but Mash needs to get to a Carr or Mason's level before we even think NBA is a chance. I actually think Gabe has a better chance than Mashburn right now and thats not saying much.

I do think Gach has the best chance, he just looks most like an NBA player with his size for his position, athleticism and one on one game. Watching his highlight tape, and of course I know it's just a highlight tape, but he reminded me of Zach Lavine at UCLA. Lavine is obviously a better athlete and also was a better shooter, but just his game and how Gach could get to the rim and finish reminded me of that. Obviously not saying Gach will be anywhere near UCLA, just that his game reminds me most of an NBA game.

Still though, he needs to make big improvements and thats just to sign a two way contract. Amir as a freshman was better than Gach as a sophomore and it took Amir two more years just to go undrafted and sign a two way contract and Gach has a ways to go just to get to the level Amir was at junior year which didn't even get him drafted.

With Amir and Oturu, I always felt that the chances of them making the NBA were above 50%. With Gach, Liam, Carr and Robbins, the chances are definitely well below 50% but not outside the realm of possibility.
Good post and I don't necessarily disagree with much of what you shared. When I look at the word "caliber", I see and hear a level of ability. I think all the guys I mentioned can have the ability to be in the NBA. Doesn't mean they will last or make it. They will be scouted and watched. That is why I brought them up as guys who are options. If we are talking about being 10 year rotation guys then I don't think any of them make it. That's really hard to achieve
 

die hard gopher

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Gach, Carr, Liam and Ihnen all have an outside chance at making the league but ultimately I don't think any of them will.

Ihnen has a shot but the same way Charles Buggs had a shot meaning we are only basing this off his physical attributes and skill, not what he has done on the court. He has a long ways to go.

With Liam it will be an uphill battle because the NBA has moved away from traditional centers and has opted for smaller lineups and the centers who do play are mostly above the rim athletes who get used as rim runners, rim protectors and lob threats like Javale Mcgee or Cauley-Stein which isn't Robbins game. And if he was NBA caliber, I'd like to see him put up better numbers at Drake.

With Carr, it will be an outside chance for the same reason it was with Nate Mason, just doesn't have the combination of size, speed and quickness to translate to the NBA level. Same for Mashburn but Mash needs to get to a Carr or Mason's level before we even think NBA is a chance. I actually think Gabe has a better chance than Mashburn right now and thats not saying much.

I do think Gach has the best chance, he just looks most like an NBA player with his size for his position, athleticism and one on one game. Watching his highlight tape, and of course I know it's just a highlight tape, but he reminded me of Zach Lavine at UCLA. Lavine is obviously a better athlete and also was a better shooter, but just his game and how Gach could get to the rim and finish reminded me of that. Obviously not saying Gach will be anywhere near UCLA, just that his game reminds me most of an NBA game.

Still though, he needs to make big improvements and thats just to sign a two way contract. Amir as a freshman was better than Gach as a sophomore and it took Amir two more years just to go undrafted and sign a two way contract and Gach has a ways to go just to get to the level Amir was at junior year which didn't even get him drafted.

With Amir and Oturu, I always felt that the chances of them making the NBA were above 50%. With Gach, Liam, Carr and Robbins, the chances are definitely well below 50% but not outside the realm of possibility.
And of course, I'm completely fine if none of them make it to the league as they should all be great college players. I'm not saying its an indictment on this roster or that it lacks talent. This year, I expect Carr to be a first team All Big Ten player and the best PG in the conference, I expect Gach, Robbins and Gabe to be above average Big Ten starters but not quite All Big Ten and I expect Brandon Johnson to be an average-ish Big Ten starting PF and an upgrade over Demir.

That is a very complete starting 5 and aside from going into 2017 with Amir, Dupree, Mason, Murphy and Lynch coming back, this is best I've felt about a starting 5 going into the year in a while, about the same as i felt going into Tubby's last year with Rodney, Mbakwe, Coleman, and both Hollins.

Most years we may have 3 or 4 solid to good starters coming back but one or two obvious holes in the lineup like Willis and Alihan last year, or PG in 2018-19. This year all 5 starters should be solid and are proven at the D1 level.
 

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My advice is to stop wasting your time debating with alaska. It's the same with USAF. No matter what happens on the court this year, those two will continue to root against the Gophers (and Pitino).
 

alaska

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My advice is to stop wasting your time debating with alaska. It's the same with USAF. No matter what happens on the court this year, those two will continue to root against the Gophers (and Pitino).
You have me all wrong sir. I am all in on the Gophers, season ticket holders for both sports, and send one of my kids there. Dont paint me with a brush when you dont know the color.

My advice is that you take a realistic look at the program. I hope it turns around, however, I would not say its a solid program at the moment. And under the tutelage of Richard Pitino we have not exactly achieved greatness, nor even good seasons. Actually quite average seasons with under achieving seasons sprinkled in.

How can you argue against that? He loses double the amount of Big ten games than he wins.
 

alchemy2u

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Gach, Carr, Liam and Ihnen all have an outside chance at making the league but ultimately I don't think any of them will.

Ihnen has a shot but the same way Charles Buggs had a shot meaning we are only basing this off his physical attributes and skill, not what he has done on the court. He has a long ways to go.

With Liam it will be an uphill battle because the NBA has moved away from traditional centers and has opted for smaller lineups and the centers who do play are mostly above the rim athletes who get used as rim runners, rim protectors and lob threats like Javale Mcgee or Cauley-Stein which isn't Robbins game. And if he was NBA caliber, I'd like to see him put up better numbers at Drake.

With Carr, it will be an outside chance for the same reason it was with Nate Mason, just doesn't have the combination of size, speed and quickness to translate to the NBA level. Same for Mashburn but Mash needs to get to a Carr or Mason's level before we even think NBA is a chance. I actually think Gabe has a better chance than Mashburn right now and thats not saying much.

I do think Gach has the best chance, he just looks most like an NBA player with his size for his position, athleticism and one on one game. Watching his highlight tape, and of course I know it's just a highlight tape, but he reminded me of Zach Lavine at UCLA. Lavine is obviously a better athlete and also was a better shooter, but just his game and how Gach could get to the rim and finish reminded me of that. Obviously not saying Gach will be anywhere near Lavine, just that his game reminds me most of an NBA game.

Still though, he needs to make big improvements and thats just to sign a two way contract. Amir as a freshman was better than Gach as a sophomore and it took Amir two more years just to go undrafted and sign a two way contract and Gach has a ways to go just to get to the level Amir was at junior year which didn't even get him drafted.

With Amir and Oturu, I always felt that the chances of them making the NBA were above 50%. With Gach, Liam, Carr and Robbins, the chances are definitely well below 50% but not outside the realm of possibility.
That is a fair assessment. The point of the NBA potential was in response to the troll's comment about the team not having any talent. Having player with the "potential" of making the NBA is a far cry from saying there is no talent.
 

USAF

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That is a fair assessment. The point of the NBA potential was in response to the troll's comment about the team not having any talent. Having player with the "potential" of making the NBA is a far cry from saying there is no talent.
So they win the B1G this year? 5 NBA level talent players?

If Pitino can't win the B1G withn5 NBA players, do we agree he should have been fired?

I'm guessing you won't back up your claims.
 

Frank Grimey Grimes

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And of course, I'm completely fine if none of them make it to the league as they should all be great college players. I'm not saying its an indictment on this roster or that it lacks talent. This year, I expect Carr to be a first team All Big Ten player and the best PG in the conference, I expect Gach, Robbins and Gabe to be above average Big Ten starters but not quite All Big Ten and I expect Brandon Johnson to be an average-ish Big Ten starting PF and an upgrade over Demir.

That is a very complete starting 5 and aside from going into 2017 with Amir, Dupree, Mason, Murphy and Lynch coming back, this is best I've felt about a starting 5 going into the year in a while, about the same as i felt going into Tubby's last year with Rodney, Mbakwe, Coleman, and both Hollins.

Most years we may have 3 or 4 solid to good starters coming back but one or two obvious holes in the lineup like Willis and Alihan last year, or PG in 2018-19. This year all 5 starters should be solid and are proven at the D1 level.
Agree on all points, to touch on your point about the starting 5, I think 2017 had a better starting lineup with 4 guys who were All-B1G caliber. However, that 2017 roster had a horrifically bad bench, I didn't realize until I looked it up but the only guys we had that even belonged on a D1 court were IW, Hurt, Fitzgerald and Konate....yikes.

That's what excites me about this year. On paper we have a very solid starting 5 and then maybe more importantly we have multiple guys who I feel comfortable with off the bench in Ihnen, Williams, Omersa and hopefully Curry. Hopefully Pitino is right on Mashburn and that's yet another guy who can eat some minutes off the bench.
 

die hard gopher

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Agree on all points, to touch on your point about the starting 5, I think 2017 had a better starting lineup with 4 guys who were All-B1G caliber. However, that 2017 roster had a horrifically bad bench, I didn't realize until I looked it up but the only guys we had that even belonged on a D1 court were IW, Hurt, Fitzgerald and Konate....yikes.

That's what excites me about this year. On paper we have a very solid starting 5 and then maybe more importantly we have multiple guys who I feel comfortable with off the bench in Ihnen, Williams, Omersa and hopefully Curry. Hopefully Pitino is right on Mashburn and that's yet another guy who can eat some minutes off the bench.
Yep, going into 2017, as well las after our first 7 games of that year, I thought we had the best, most complete starting lineup in the Big Ten, even ahead of MSU with Bridges and Jaren Jackson. MSU had a much deeper bench going into that year so l liked them better overall but I thought our starting 5 was better.

I was probably more excited about that team going into the year than I even was going into this football season before the pandemic. Curry getting hurt also really hurt that bench.
 

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I have yet to find a preseason poll that has the Gophers above 10 or 11 in the Big Ten. Is there something that everyone is missing here? Maybe I just don't enough, but it seems like everyone has the same sentiment that this years team will not be good again.
 

howeda7

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I have yet to find a preseason poll that has the Gophers above 10 or 11 in the Big Ten. Is there something that everyone is missing here? Maybe I just don't enough, but it seems like everyone has the same sentiment that this years team will not be good again.
We were bad last year and the national publications aren't going to deep dive into the changes unless we had a top 10 recruiting class or something. In most cases the separation between 7 and 11 is minimal.
 

manderson1984

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I have yet to find a preseason poll that has the Gophers above 10 or 11 in the Big Ten. Is there something that everyone is missing here? Maybe I just don't enough, but it seems like everyone has the same sentiment that this years team will not be good again.
Have you seen what the conference is returning? How does any analyst who doesn't really look that in depth not rank us lower. You have proven products vs a relatively new roster. Also PItino hasn't proven he can coach defense at a high level yet.
 

Bad Gopher

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I agree that this is a bit premature, but it's a conversation board. One thing struck me recently:

Eric is a homeboy.
 
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