NCAA Ruling Allows D-III St. Thomas to Make Unprecedented Leap to D-I

Panthadad2

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That’s just fine in DIII, Ivy, and Pioneer. That’s what need-based aid is. It’s aid that is available to all students.

The sticky part is the idea that being a football player bumped them up to the top of the list in the scholarship criteria for selecting who gets the awards. That “shouldn’t” happen, but guessing it does all the time.

Or in the Ivy, their endowments are so huge they just say for any student “if your family makes less than X, you’re guaranteed to have your full need met”.
What I saw with my kid (at a top D3 athletic school) was that the coaches would proactively be on the prospective student athletes to apply for all different types of aid (scholarships for leadership, urban, geographic, 1st generation college, specific academic fields, etc.). A regular student might have the same access to that aid, but might not have a college staff person proactively directing them towards it. Also, not all schools provide these different types of aid beyond just financial need and academic...UST definitely does.
 

MplsGopher

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What I saw with my kid (at a top D3 athletic school) was that the coaches would proactively be on the prospective student athletes to apply for all different types of aid (scholarships for leadership, urban, geographic, 1st generation college, specific academic fields, etc.). A regular student might have the same access to that aid, but might not have a college staff person proactively directing them towards it. Also, not all schools provide these different types of aid beyond just financial need and academic...UST definitely does.
True and good point. Also sometimes donors create an endowment that perpetually funds a scholar with some specific criteria.
 

Livingat45north

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I'm calling it now. Summit will be the only conference to play football this fall, St. Thomas wins the conference title, so they're the National Champs. Take that Alabama and Clemson and all you other second rate pretenders.
 

MplsGopher

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There is no Summit football conference.

There is a Missouri Valley conference, but they cancelled their fall conference season. And St Thomas isn’t joining the MVFC.
 

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Looks like UST is signing several of the top Minnesota kids, in five years they will be competing with NDSU.
 

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Minnesota boys will show everyone what they can do when given the opportunity.
 

Herd

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@Herd care to weigh in on this claim?
Motto in Fargo has always been, "bring on the competition", so I hope they are stepping up. Hopefully they'll play scholarship football at some point, let's go.

UST better either get out the checkbook, or get out the scissors . . . I think they have 22 sports on the list?? That tough to support. In 5-10 years it will be 16.
 
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MplsGopher

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Motto in Fargo has always been, "bring on the competition", so I hope they are stepping up. Hopefully they'll play scholarship football at some point, let's go.

UST better either get out the checkbook, or get out the scissors . . . I think they have 22 sports on the list?? That tough to support. In 5-10 years it will be 16.
If UST wanted to commit to scholarship football by cutting excessive (in the sense of NCAA minimum requirements) sports, the move to DI coupled with covid19 was the perfect cover to do so.

They chose not to do that. That's pretty much your answer, for the time being.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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If UST wanted to commit to scholarship football by cutting excessive (in the sense of NCAA minimum requirements) sports, the move to DI coupled with covid19 was the perfect cover to do so.

They chose not to do that. That's pretty much your answer, for the time being.
We'll see how it plays out but UST's choices so far feel like more of a... basketball play than anything else. Of course that can change.
 

MplsGopher

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We'll see how it plays out but UST's choices so far feel like more of a... basketball play than anything else. Of course that can change.
Agreed. Plus hockey.

I honestly think they just don't know what they have yet, and don't want to get rid of anything. Want to see how alumni and the metro react first, then perhaps invest more in whatever sport(s) take of the most.

Missouri Valley football is very high level. Extremely difficult to compete with the Dakotas. Would take several million per year, to attempt to get on their level. And for what? An NCAA trophy that no one watches on TV, and is marketed basically the same as the DIII and DII trophies.

No, FBS is the only thing that's actually worth spending that kind of money for.
 

Spaulding!No!

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The u has been dumb regarding athletics for 50 years to the point that everyone else is here cherry picking the talent. It was eventual that someone else is setting up shop in state. Nice job Regents.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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The u has been dumb regarding athletics for 50 years to the point that everyone else is here cherry picking the talent. It was eventual that someone else is setting up shop in state. Nice job Regents.
I'm not really sure anything the Unveristiy of Minnesota does, is going to make another school more or less inclined to move up down or whatever.
 

MplsGopher

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The u has been dumb regarding athletics for 50 years to the point that everyone else is here cherry picking the talent. It was eventual that someone else is setting up shop in state. Nice job Regents.
I truly don't think it is any different than Marquette in Wisconsin.
 

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If UST plays there will be a lot of followers and to their benifit with the big 10 dragging their feet.
 

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I looked at this conference. It seems to be set up like the Ivy league, nice private schools with large endowments. UST will climb the ladder quickly against the competition. The QB for the conference winner signed with TB this year. It looks like a good place for them to start and be able to compete as they build their roster. The conference winner lost to UNI in the first round of the playoffs.
 

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Agreed. Plus hockey.

I honestly think they just don't know what they have yet, and don't want to get rid of anything. Want to see how alumni and the metro react first, then perhaps invest more in whatever sport(s) take of the most.

Missouri Valley football is very high level. Extremely difficult to compete with the Dakotas. Would take several million per year, to attempt to get on their level. And for what? An NCAA trophy that no one watches on TV, and is marketed basically the same as the DIII and DII trophies.

No, FBS is the only thing that's actually worth spending that kind of money for.
The value of the FBS label, outside of the P5 or P6 conferences, is minimal due to NO access to playoffs. These G5 conferences play 1-2 games vs. P5, and then just play conference games. As an FCS team, you can also play 1-2 games vs. FBS P5. So, Whats the difference? An undefeated season does not get you into the playoff. So what's the FBS value? 1 Bowl game around Christmas vs. continued games during a playoff run? Pretty even. 11-1 App State last year was ranked 17,18,19 and got a terrible bowl game. What the value of that?

Expand the FBS playoff to 12 teams and give all the conferences access (bids or play-in opportunities). Otherwise being FBS G5 isn't any more valuable than being at the top of the FCS. I'd be the first person urging a FBS move if there was playoff access, otherwise its a downer. In the end, your Conference (FCS or FBS G5) is the key. I'd take the MVFC over the MAC or Sunbelt if no playoff access due to footprint and success. But, I'd move to MWC or AAC under the current setup.
 

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Yep. Valparaiso, Dayton, Campbell. Ivy League, for sure.
 

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If UST plays ... what?


Whose going to follow them? How, on TV?


These posts in this thread are like half thoughts that make no sense....
inwas simply saying if UST is the only college football option in the state then they have a lot to gain as far as fans following their product. That’s all.
 

MplsGopher

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The value of the FBS label, outside of the P5 or P6 conferences, is minimal due to NO access to playoffs. These G5 conferences play 1-2 games vs. P5, and then just play conference games. As an FCS team, you can also play 1-2 games vs. FBS P5. So, Whats the difference? An undefeated season does not get you into the playoff. So what's the FBS value? 1 Bowl game around Christmas vs. continued games during a playoff run? Pretty even. 11-1 App State last year was ranked 17,18,19 and got a terrible bowl game. What the value of that?

Expand the FBS playoff to 12 teams and give all the conferences access (bids or play-in opportunities). Otherwise being FBS G5 isn't any more valuable than being at the top of the FCS. I'd be the first person urging a FBS move if there was playoff access, otherwise its a downer. In the end, your Conference (FCS or FBS G5) is the key. I'd take the MVFC over the MAC or Sunbelt if no playoff access due to footprint and success. But, I'd move to MWC or AAC under the current setup.
Yep. Boise, Central Florida. They’re the same thing as FCS. What’s the point of FBS??

W Michigan. Cotton Bowl vs Wisconsin with Fleck at the helm. Who wants that??
 

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inwas simply saying if UST is the only college football option in the state then they have a lot to gain as far as fans following their product. That’s all.
There is no D3 this year. They become D1 next year.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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inwas simply saying if UST is the only college football option in the state then they have a lot to gain as far as fans following their product. That’s all.
Not if nobody can actually... do anything fan related with it.
 

Herd

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Yep. Boise, Central Florida. They’re the same thing as FCS. What’s the point of FBS??

W Michigan. Cotton Bowl vs Wisconsin with Fleck at the helm. Who wants that??
The Sunbelt, CUSA and MAC are FBS, and I'd rather be in the MVFC. The MWC and AAC, as I said, provide some FBS value, but still no playoff access. Remember those Boise and C FL playoff runs? Me either.

W Mich had a 1 in 30 year 11-1 season, no playoffs. Got to play a 2nd Tier B1G team in a descent bowl yes, which is better than the New Orleans bowl (Appy at 11-1).

Tell me which FBS G5 conferences that the top of the MVFC can't compete with? That list would not include the Sunbelt, MAC or CUSA. The top of the AAC is closer to the P5.
 

MplsGopher

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The Sunbelt, CUSA and MAC are FBS, and I'd rather be in the MVFC. The MWC and AAC, as I said, provide some FBS value, but still no playoff access. Remember those Boise and C FL playoff runs? Me either.

W Mich had a 1 in 30 year 11-1 season, no playoffs. Got to play a 2nd Tier B1G team in a descent bowl yes, which is better than the New Orleans bowl (Appy at 11-1).

Tell me which FBS G5 conferences that the top of the MVFC can't compete with? That list would not include the Sunbelt, MAC or CUSA. The top of the AAC is closer to the P5.
If an FCS playoff run falls in the forrest, and literally no one views it on TV, does anyone care?

It’s neat that you make up going on a deep playoff run as being some desirable thing, as opposed to a bowl game. Ratings and fan interest don’t support that.

Never said Dakotas can’t compete with MAC, Sun Belt, even CUSA. I think they would do well. Obviously MWC and AAC are head and shoulders above. The point is: if you’re spending FBS level money (as Dakotas do), why wouldn’t you want FBS benefits, credibility, and fan interest?

There is literally nothing left to prove in the depleted FCS. What joy is the 27th trophy going to bring??
 

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If an FCS playoff run falls in the forrest, and literally no one views it on TV, does anyone care?

It’s neat that you make up going on a deep playoff run as being some desirable thing, as opposed to a bowl game. Ratings and fan interest don’t support that.

Never said Dakotas can’t compete with MAC, Sun Belt, even CUSA. I think they would do well. Obviously MWC and AAC are head and shoulders above. The point is: if you’re spending FBS level money (as Dakotas do), why wouldn’t you want FBS benefits, credibility, and fan interest?

There is literally nothing left to prove in the depleted FCS. What joy is the 27th trophy going to bring??
Last year's bowls below the FCS Championship game in Ave Viewers:

FCS Title Game in Frisco (FCS). (2.69 million)

Mitsubishi Motors Las Vegas Bowl (2.64 mil)
Belk Bowl (2.62 mil)
Cheez-It Bowl (2.62 mil)
San Diego County Credit Union Holiday Bowl (2.50 mil)
SoFi Hawai’i Bowl (2.43 mil)
Walk-On’s Independence Bowl (2.37 mil)
Franklin American Mortgage Music City Bowl (2.20 mil)
Military Bowl Presented by Northrop Grumman (2.01 mil)
Cheribundi Boca Raton Bowl (1.99 mil)
Redbox Bowl (1.87 mil)
Celebration Bowl (1.81 mil)
Lockheed Martin Armed Forces Bowl (1.74 mil)
TicketSmarter Birmingham Bowl (1.59 mil)
LendingTree Bowl (1.45 mil)
Famous Idaho Potato Bowl (1.36 mil)
SERVPRO First Responder Bowl (1.29 mil)
Tropical Smoothie Cafe Frisco Bowl (1.25 mil)
Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl (1.15 mil)
R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl (0.96 mil)
New Mexico Bowl (0.80 mil)
Makers Wanted Bahamas Bowl (0.74 mil)
Camellia Bowl (0.69 mil)
 
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