NCAA Ruling Allows D-III St. Thomas to Make Unprecedented Leap to D-I

MplsGopher

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This is really a broader topic, it has hurt, not only the MBB & WBB programs, but the entire UMN-TC athletic department: the reduction and diminishing of UMN's reputation. It started, in earnest, during my years at the school and subsequent generations have just shrugged their shoulders in apathetic acceptance.

Everyone loves to spout the free market, competition lines, but no one addresses the residual erosion to UMN. This erosion has been in the willingness of the middle class alumni to support UMN, financially and in spirit.

This erosion in middle class alumni contributions has made the atmosphere more contentious, confrontational and desperate. It has raised the negative vibe (for lack of a better word/phrase) about anything UMN. It affects recruiting, game attendance, and student participation on campus.

When the recruiting threads pop up, posters are less and less likely to argue for coming to UMN because, not only has the "cool" factor for supporting your school shriveled to microscopic size, but UMN makes it easier and easier to be disgusted by behaviors exhibited on campus by all aspects of tge school.

UMN needs to stop punching itself in the face, and reputation, and start putting forth a better public image. That will help the MBB & WBB recruiting "easy to walk away" factor when coaches come calling.

UST is not run by a flippant, whimsical, play to the trendy crowd kind of administration. This kind of an athletic departmental change, and the expanding scope & size of it, means going bigger is a 100% sure thing within their conservative mindset. Blowing off the importance and potential damage to UMN Athletics is a fools decision.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Maybe you’re right. But if so, it will still take UST some time to make it up there. So the U has that time to fix its problems.
 

builtbadgers

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This is why UST being DI is problematic. I think the U alums, not just B1G alums are not in the Twin Cities in numbers larger than this. If we add in the contentious political environment at UMN-TC, then there is plenty of traction for other schools to grow their base here.

.
Need your help in understanding this. I have seen where a program went D1 in basketball and the state school played them and both programs benefited immensely. You have a much better grasp of the political environment here and the apathy of so many.
 

discochris

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Could the hockey team play at Aldrich, or is that overbooked already?
What would have been cool, is if they would not have removed the ice from the State Fair Coliseum.
 

MplsGopher

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Could the hockey team play at Aldrich, or is that overbooked already?
What would have been cool, is if they would not have removed the ice from the State Fair Coliseum.
If UST wants to pay for it, new equipment can always be installed. Would just cost a lot of money.
 

Some guy

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They would need a football practice facility somewhere, regardless where they play. And what about track?

Would doing a major renovation of their current b-ball varsity gym be out of the question? NDSU was able to do a major overhaul of their’s, and add a b-ball practice gym, for I think $20M? No ice making ability though.

I assume regardless, both hockey teams will have to bus down to STA for practices? Or would they try to practice at Highland arena?

Many options. All it takes is enough cash.
You think UST hockey players take a BUS



you misspelled BMW
 

#2Gopher

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I saw on KARE 11 news last night that a couple of the teams in the new league that the Tommies are going to now are too good. Wow. Perhaps that league needs to be Division one, tier 4 or something.
 

dpodoll68

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This is really a broader topic, it has hurt, not only the MBB & WBB programs, but the entire UMN-TC athletic department: the reduction and diminishing of UMN's reputation. It started, in earnest, during my years at the school and subsequent generations have just shrugged their shoulders in apathetic acceptance.

Everyone loves to spout the free market, competition lines, but no one addresses the residual erosion to UMN. This erosion has been in the willingness of the middle class alumni to support UMN, financially and in spirit.

This erosion in middle class alumni contributions has made the atmosphere more contentious, confrontational and desperate. It has raised the negative vibe (for lack of a better word/phrase) about anything UMN. It affects recruiting, game attendance, and student participation on campus.

When the recruiting threads pop up, posters are less and less likely to argue for coming to UMN because, not only has the "cool" factor for supporting your school shriveled to microscopic size, but UMN makes it easier and easier to be disgusted by behaviors exhibited on campus by all aspects of tge school.

UMN needs to stop punching itself in the face, and reputation, and start putting forth a better public image. That will help the MBB & WBB recruiting "easy to walk away" factor when coaches come calling.

UST is not run by a flippant, whimsical, play to the trendy crowd kind of administration. This kind of an athletic departmental change, and the expanding scope & size of it, means going bigger is a 100% sure thing within their conservative mindset. Blowing off the importance and potential damage to UMN Athletics is a fools decision.
What on Earth are you even blathering about? Is this a recap of some syphilitic fever dream? Good Lord.
 

4four4

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I saw on KARE 11 news last night that a couple of the teams in the new league that the Tommies are going to now are too good. Wow. Perhaps that league needs to be Division one, tier 4 or something.
There is no stability in the Summit it seems schools come in and out often.
 

MplsGopher

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There just aren’t that many DI conferences west of the Mississippi without FBS football. Schools like the Dakotas, Omaha, KC, really have limited options to go elsewhere. Pretty much the WAC and the Big Sky, neither of which are better than what they have going on in the upper Great Plains/North Central US. (whatever you want to call it). The MVC is the main exception that would arguably still be an upgrade, but they don’t seem to be in any hurry to expand west of N Iowa. Granted, both Wichita and Creighton were very strong programs for them.

The teams that have left the Summit in recent years were mostly East of the Miss.
 

MplsGopher

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Either the CCHA was just glad to have an eighth body, smack dab in the biggest hockey market in their footprint, or else UST must be promising something will be done to address the arena issues.
 

4four4

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Either the CCHA was just glad to have an eighth body, smack dab in the biggest hockey market in their footprint, or else UST must be promising something will be done to address the arena issues.
I am guessing adding the Twin Cities market probably trumps everything. Just that alone probably is worth the hassle of not having a D1 hockey arena.
 

Panthadad2

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Either the CCHA was just glad to have an eighth body, smack dab in the biggest hockey market in their footprint, or else UST must be promising something will be done to address the arena issues.
I continue to be surprised at how small UST's facilities are for such a successful program and largest MIAC school by far. Especially with D1 rumors floating around that program for two decades now. Concordia's and St. John's facilities dwarf theirs. I suppose being landlocked in an expensive real estate area doesn't help.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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I continue to be surprised at how small UST's facilities are for such a successful program and largest MIAC school by far. Especially with D1 rumors floating around that program for two decades now. Concordia's and St. John's facilities dwarf theirs. I suppose being landlocked in an expensive real estate area doesn't help.
The whole move and fiance thing remains a mystery to me.

Presumably donors are driving a lot of this and maybe they feel they can facility upgrade after the move?
 

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The whole move and fiance thing remains a mystery to me.

Presumably donors are driving a lot of this and maybe they feel they can facility upgrade after the move?
The fiance always complicates things.
 

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I know a higher in one of the SEC basketball programs and he is saying St. Thomas will have guys coming there to play hoops that are legit in the next two years. Wonder if football will be able to bring in any?? Or should I say pull any from NDSU?!?!
 

Some guy

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I know a higher in one of the SEC basketball programs and he is saying St. Thomas will have guys coming there to play hoops that are legit in the next two years. Wonder if football will be able to bring in any?? Or should I say pull any from NDSU?!?!
Hard to with zero athletic scholarship to give to them.

they’ll be bigger competition for the top end d2 guys who only get partials IMO
 

4four4

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Hard to with zero athletic scholarship to give to them.

they’ll be bigger competition for the top end d2 guys who only get partials IMO
Or they will give two different scholarships to players. That's how they operate. It's why they are out of the MIAC.
 

MplsGopher

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Or they will give two different scholarships to players. That's how they operate. It's why they are out of the MIAC.
No DI player can receive more money than the full cost of attendance number submitted by the school to the Dept of Ed. Regardless what sources the actual dollars come from (athletic dept or some school scholarship), it counts the same towards the athletic scholarship limit.

These types of accountability is why they’ll need to expand their compliance staff.
 

Some guy

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Or they will give two different scholarships to players. That's how they operate. It's why they are out of the MIAC.
For sure they’re the only one in the MIAC who does that.
I definitely didn’t coach two kids who are paying less than 7k per year to go to Gustavus and st Olaf next year on “academic” scholarships
 

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For sure they’re the only one in the MIAC who does that.
I definitely didn’t coach two kids who are paying less than 7k per year to go to Gustavus and st Olaf next year on “academic” scholarships
Yeah - I know stories about the same thing at Augsburg for football. Also heard of it happening for womens hockey and soccer at various private D3 schools.
 

MplsGopher

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Again, you guys know that a big deal in the MIAC schools is that “nobody” (unless your family is filthy rich) pays full price, right?

Because they have so many scholarships, of all kinds, that they try to get to every student, to get the cost down.

You guys are just not familiar with the private, liberal arts college model, I guess?

It has nothing to do with being smart, or an athlete, or a musician ..... it’s everyone.
 

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Yeah - I know stories about the same thing at Augsburg for football. Also heard of it happening for womens hockey and soccer at various private D3 schools.
I don’t mind people saying UST does this...because they do. I do get annoyed when they intimate they’re the only MIAC football team that did it and that’s why they win.
 

4four4

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No DI player can receive more money than the full cost of attendance number submitted by the school to the Dept of Ed. Regardless what sources the actual dollars come from (athletic dept or some school scholarship), it counts the same towards the athletic scholarship limit.

These types of accountability is why they’ll need to expand their compliance staff.
They use academic scholarships the football players can apply for.
 

MplsGopher

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They use academic scholarships the football players can apply for.
That’s just fine in DIII, Ivy, and Pioneer. That’s what need-based aid is. It’s aid that is available to all students.

The sticky part is the idea that being a football player bumped them up to the top of the list in the scholarship criteria for selecting who gets the awards. That “shouldn’t” happen, but guessing it does all the time.

Or in the Ivy, their endowments are so huge they just say for any student “if your family makes less than X, you’re guaranteed to have your full need met”.
 

4four4

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That’s just fine in DIII, Ivy, and Pioneer. That’s what need-based aid is. It’s aid that is available to all students.

The sticky part is the idea that being a football player bumped them up to the top of the list in the scholarship criteria for selecting who gets the awards. That “shouldn’t” happen, but guessing it does all the time.

Or in the Ivy, their endowments are so huge they just say for any student “if your family makes less than X, you’re guaranteed to have your full need met”.
You are correct.
 
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