NCAA - KU

BleedGopher

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per the KC Stars:

Legendary ESPN announcer Dick Vitale noticed the forceful tone of the NCAA in its Thursday response to the Kansas athletic department’s stance that it is not guilty of any of the five Level One violations alleged by the organization against KU basketball.

“It’s been really a tough time going on up in Jayhawk land right now,” the 80-year-old Vitale said in a Twitter Q and A with fans on Friday.

“The NCAA … they are not playing games, man. They are really coming after people. A few other schools are going to be a little nervous right now, as well, really a nervous wreck,” added Vitale, a member of the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame.


Go Gophers!!
 

gophereric30

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Mark few will not be happy if kansas gets a slap on the wrist. Dont blame him.
 

WindyCityGopher

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Not meaningless to me. Cheaters did not win, they cheated. Anyone can win cheating. That is how Clem won.
That wasn’t always how Clem won. Let’s not forget he turned around a program that was in massive crisis after the Madison incident. He built a great core of players in the late ‘80s and had back-to-back seasons with a Sweet 16 and Elite 8, and missed going to the Final Four by one shot. By all accounts he did that clean. Yes he cheated in trying to recreate those results a decade later, but to say he was always that way is simply false.
 

builtbadgers

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Your right. He never got better than 4th clean. did not have back to back winning seasons in the conference until he cheated. SWEET 16's takes two wins, elite 8 was really cool. I was there for it. His overall body of work is mediocre to me and i was referring to the time where he won big, cheated to do it and one of the examples as to why i have always despised cheating.
 

MplsGopher

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Again, what incentive does the NCAA have to inflict major damage to it's main (sole, realistically) profit generating product, March Madness??

It wasn't there with UNC, and it won't be there with Kansas.


SMU wasn't doing anything in football that every other Texas/southern school was also doing. But they weren't big enough/important enough to be shielded, so they got made an example of.


Kansas basketball is "too big to fail". They'll never cripple a brand like that, and they'd probably get sued to bejebus if they tried. Governor and congressmen from Kansas, and powerful businessmen that back Kansas and back Adidas, will talk to the right people and make this go away.

They made the Southern District investigation go away, for Louisville/Adidas.
 

jovs

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If Dickie V is giving this warning something is up, he's the biggest cheerleader of corrupt programs out there.
 

Holy Man

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Again, what incentive does the NCAA have to inflict major damage to it's main (sole, realistically) profit generating product, March Madness??

It wasn't there with UNC, and it won't be there with Kansas.


SMU wasn't doing anything in football that every other Texas/southern school was also doing. But they weren't big enough/important enough to be shielded, so they got made an example of.



Kansas basketball is "too big to fail". They'll never cripple a brand like that, and they'd probably get sued to bejebus if they tried. Governor and congressmen from Kansas, and powerful businessmen that back Kansas and back Adidas, will talk to the right people and make this go away.

They made the Southern District investigation go away, for Louisville/Adidas.
I don't think UNC and Kansas are on the same level for the NCAA. Tar Cheats are a step above and that will make a difference. Nice article in the Athletic that suggests it could be a disaster financially for college basketball if shoe companies are indeed "boosters." I don't buy the argument, but a lot of people do. Think that if shoe companies are boosters, they can't sponsor club basketball. Shoe companies are boosters and the schools should be accountable for what they do in the program. They are only buying off players for a few teams, and that needs to be punished.

I think you're overstating the SMU situation. It was the worst of the worst and blatant even by Texas standards and it went directly into the president's office. SMU wasn't same old same old.
 

MplsGopher

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If people really believed it was all a big fraud, that the outcome was already determined --- ratings wouldn't be off the charts, as they have been. Therefore, people still believe it is a fair competition, any team can win the tourny, etc.

Why does anyone want to damage that? You're not possibly going to increase ratings with this stuff. Only potentially decrease them.
 

Former Goofer

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Not meaningless to me. Cheaters did not win, they cheated. Anyone can win cheating. That is how Clem won.
lol, what does vacating wins do? Are you going to retroactively erase the memories of what actually happened?

All it does is remove it from a piece of paper but the memories of it to everyone will always be there. It's what I'd call a "meaningless punishment" as an attempt to look like they are actually punishing them but in the end it doesn't do -anything-
 

builtbadgers

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lol, what does vacating wins do? Are you going to retroactively erase the memories of what actually happened?

All it does is remove it from a piece of paper but the memories of it to everyone will always be there. It's what I'd call a "meaningless punishment" as an attempt to look like they are actually punishing them but in the end it doesn't do -anything-
No big deal, we simply disagree. Cheaters should lose what they win. It is not just a piece of paper, it is a banner, it is a forever marketing and recruiting tool. It is the trophy, the record book, the hall of fame. Remember what you want, no one can take that away from you. I was there for all of it and only know we cheated.
 

jovs

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I think you're overstating the SMU situation. It was the worst of the worst and blatant even by Texas standards and it went directly into the president's office. SMU wasn't same old same old.
SMU has a huge backing among the wealthy Dallas Baptists, there were articles in the Dallas paper about how they were disenchanted with the whole situation at the time, I wouldn't be surprised if they told the NCAA to shut them down, take the blame away from them, I'm guessing they would have forced it if the NCAA hadn't.
 

Go Gophs

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Ban them from NCAA tournament competition for 5 years.

Then go after Duke and ban them for 10.
 

Otis

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I'm betting they will be banned from the NCAA tournament for 2020 and get the death sentence for the entire 2021 season.

Then it will be back to full scholarships and no restrictions.
 

WindyCityGopher

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I'm betting they will be banned from the NCAA tournament for 2020 and get the death sentence for the entire 2021 season.

Then it will be back to full scholarships and no restrictions.
If the NCAA gets really nasty they'll prohibit them from playing in front of any fans at the Phog this season.
 

jovs

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Hopefully the pay for play will stop and that in and of itself should change the dynamics around recruiting or not.
 

Just Gopher It!!

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Must be some writer from kansas that was saying hes flabbergasted that kansas is getting thrown under the bus since zion and ayton never went to kansas. I guess from his point of view it's alright to offer a boat load of money if they dont pick your school. What a joke!
Cheapskates - they needed to ante up and offer more!
 

builtbadgers

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And many recruits simply love KU regardless of the news. They signed another really good player out of Sunrise today in Clemence.
 

60's Guy

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Not meaningless to me. Cheaters did not win, they cheated. Anyone can win cheating. That is how Clem won.
It was awhile ago and I have forgotten the details but how did the cheating help Clem win? It was just lazy and poor oversight. Right/Wrong? Gangelhoff wrote papers for guys too lazy to do the work. That is a work ethic diminishing the likelihood of winning imo
Really got nothing to do with recruiting 5 stars. Clem had some undiscovered guys from the weeds nobody else had interest in...and they didn't do their own coursework.
Cheated, yes. Cheated to win. Not seeing it....just lazy.
 

builtbadgers

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It was awhile ago and I have forgotten the details but how did the cheating help Clem win? It was just lazy and poor oversight. Right/Wrong? Gangelhoff wrote papers for guys too lazy to do the work. That is a work ethic diminishing the likelihood of winning imo
Really got nothing to do with recruiting 5 stars. Clem had some undiscovered guys from the weeds nobody else had interest in...and they didn't do their own coursework.
Cheated, yes. Cheated to win. Not seeing it....just lazy.
Cheated to keep players elgible to win games. Not all on him either as James should never have been admitted. Others as well.
 

MplsGopher

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Only in American college sports do people "care" about "cheating" in recruiting and academics, but not actually on the court/field.

Every single person in this thread is a hypocrite, unless they swear off DI basketball altogether and only watch DIII basketball.

Didn't think so :rolleyes:
 

MRJ

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Only in American college sports do people "care" about "cheating" in recruiting and academics, but not actually on the court/field.

Every single person in this thread is a hypocrite, unless they swear off DI basketball altogether and only watch DIII basketball.

Didn't think so :rolleyes:
I actually care about both, but that's just me... ;)
 

JimmyJamesMD

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I just want some coaches and their staff fired with a coaching ban. I dont think its fair to the players on the teams that didnt cheat. The coaches run the program, they should be accountable, as well as the players that accepted money.
 

Livingat45north

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I'm betting they will be banned from the NCAA tournament for 2020 and get the death sentence for the entire 2021 season.

Then it will be back to full scholarships and no restrictions.
I'll take you up on that bet :) The death sentence part of it that is. I just don't see that happening ever again to any team. What I'd like to see is banned from the dance and any tournaments (include preseason and conference postseason) and the ability for instant transfers of players on the team. What will happen??? Maybe a strongly worded letter to don't ever do that again...
 

Otis

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I'll take you up on that bet :) The death sentence part of it that is. I just don't see that happening ever again to any team. What I'd like to see is banned from the dance and any tournaments (include preseason and conference postseason) and the ability for instant transfers of players on the team. What will happen??? Maybe a strongly worded letter to don't ever do that again...
I'm saying every NCAA team get's the death sentence for 2021 on account of COVID.
 

SelectionSunday

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I just want some coaches and their staff fired with a coaching ban. I dont think its fair to the players on the teams that didnt cheat. The coaches run the program, they should be accountable, as well as the players that accepted money.
My thoughts on what appropriate penalties would be for the most egregious offenders (i.e. the likes of Kansas, LSU, Arizona, Louisville, etc.):

(1) Multiple-season postseason ban (read; no NCAA Tournament possibility). It can't just be only one season. It needs to be at least two so that it impacts more than one recruiting class.

(2) Offending coach(es) receive 10-year (at minimum) show-cause penalty; and

(3) All players at the penalized school -- provided they were not a part of the violations -- are allowed to transfer to another school without having to sit out a transfer year (we might be headed that way, anyways). This does two things. (1) It takes away the "you can't punish the players that didn't have anything to do with it" argument, and (2) in all likelihood it cripples the offending program for a few years. How many kids are gonna' want to stay at a school for a couple years without the NCAA Tournament carrot in front of them, and ditto for kids being recruited to come to that school? Gotta' believe most kids will bail.
 
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MplsGopher

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^^^ that would just lead to the P5/Power bball confs taking their ball and giving the NCAA the middle finger.

The NCAA tournament would crumble without them. It would be the equivalent of the FCS football tournament.
 

CPTMidnight

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It was awhile ago and I have forgotten the details but how did the cheating help Clem win? It was just lazy and poor oversight. Right/Wrong? Gangelhoff wrote papers for guys too lazy to do the work. That is a work ethic diminishing the likelihood of winning imo
Really got nothing to do with recruiting 5 stars. Clem had some undiscovered guys from the weeds nobody else had interest in...and they didn't do their own coursework.
Cheated, yes. Cheated to win. Not seeing it....just lazy.
Its just the way it works:

You play fast and loose with the rules(allowing the players to be lazy with schoolwork) and Built gets to call you a cheater.

You hire an attorney to find loopholes in the NCAA rulebook and get the same thing accomplished and Built calls you ethical. Built then recommends that the Minnesota kids should consider playing for your school because Kansas and NC are solid programs.

I kinda agree - if you are going to cheat you should probably do it Built's way...
 
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builtbadgers

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Its just the way it works:

You play fast and loose with the rules(allowing the players to be lazy with schoolwork) and Built gets to call you a cheater.

You hire an attorney to find loopholes in the NCAA rulebook and get the same thing accomplished and Built calls you ethical. Built then recommends that the Minnesota kids should consider playing for your school because Kansas and NC are solid programs.

I kinda agree - if you are going to cheat you should probably do it Built's way...
Never once did i call them ethical. Your flat out lying. I called for huge penalties for both KU and UNC. Cheating is something i despise in every walk of life and i have shared that dozens of times. I have understood why kids pick those schools and coaches over ours, but have never encouraged them to do so. Do not confuse kids loving those programs with me. It is well documented where i would advise kids to go when asked. Quit lying.
 

CPTMidnight

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Never once did i call them ethical. Your flat out lying. I called for huge penalties for both KU and UNC. Cheating is something i despise in every walk of life and i have shared that dozens of times. I have understood why kids pick those schools and coaches over ours, but have never encouraged them to do so. Do not confuse kids loving those programs with me. It is well documented where i would advise kids to go when asked. Quit lying.
You call all kinds of programs ethical that others would question. The point is that you seem to enjoy calling out an amateur cheater like Clem while the "pro's" at cheating get a pass. I get it - you are an attorney - loopholes are within the rules and therefore ethical while the guy that takes a step too far is a cheater. If there is no record of any issues at your school - you are a clean school.

I just said if we are going to cheat we should do it your way.

Clem would have been fine just to force the players to do the course work - same results on court. He was a doddering fool at academic oversight but a good basketball coach. His legacy is getting called a cheater by people like Built - so there ya go...
 
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