National Vote by Mail - Do You Now Support It

Costa Rican Gopher

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Even the NYT said there's double the chance of voter fraud via mail-in voting.

"Yet votes cast by mail are less likely to be counted, more likely to be compromised and more likely to be contested than those cast in a voting booth, statistics show. Election officials reject almost 2 percent of ballots cast by mail, double the rate for in-person voting."

Error and Fraud at Issue as Absentee Voting Rises
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Arrived in the mail yesterday: a flyer from Ramsey County inviting us to vote by mail in the fall. My first reaction: you bet your sweet shit I'm voting by mail in the fall! I suddenly feel like I'm living in a civilized, first-world country.
See you at the Supreme Court.

 

Costa Rican Gopher

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howeda7

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Even the NYT said there's double the chance of voter fraud via mail-in voting.

"Yet votes cast by mail are less likely to be counted, more likely to be compromised and more likely to be contested than those cast in a voting booth, statistics show. Election officials reject almost 2 percent of ballots cast by mail, double the rate for in-person voting."

Error and Fraud at Issue as Absentee Voting Rises
If they're less likely to be counted, what are you so panicked and manically posting about? I'd think you'd be telling all Dems to vote by mail while R's should go to the polls.
 

cncmin

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If I walk into a polling place, I need to sign my name and am handed a single ballot. To cheat, I would need to return several times throughout the day, or go to different polling places. It would be hard to vote more than 15 times in a day. With mail-in ballots, it would be relatively easy for someone to get hundreds of ballots and mail them in. It could easily be coordinated by an organization that could send thousands or tens of thousands with the names of real people in the city. What happens when Steve Johnson submits multiple ballots?

As for people doing the right thing, if you don’t believe in voter fraud, I’m sure you also believe people don’t cheat on their taxes and we don’t need the IRS? Or that cops generally do the right thing and we don’t need to reform the police? Or that CEOs do the right thing and don’t need oversight? Or let me guess - it’s just when people vote that they are honest?
Again, so we're going to have rampant issues with people risking felonies by cheating on voting with almost zero gain? If I go to vote twice, I will almost certainly have zero effect on any election, much less the Presidential election. But I would subject myself to felonious crimes. Who the F would do such a thing? Only the very stupidest, craziest among the populace; or essentially the same people who would dare to fraudulently vote by mail.
 

cncmin

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Hmmmmm.... Let's take a quick look...

Dems lose a critical general election that was presumed in the bag and...

- We need to do away with the Electoral College altogether
- We need to totally revamp the way we vote in 2020

Seems legit
Most certainly, a global pandemic is a total non-factor in such an argument. Jesus H.
 

cncmin

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To get a mail in ballot you have to be registered. Your signature on your ballot application is matched against your voter registration. If it doesn't match, you're not sent a ballot. In most states, you have to include a copy of your ID with the application. Once you receive your ballot, you must again sign it under penalty of perjury. Again, if your signature does not match, your ballot will not be counted. Voting by mail is just as, if not more, secure than voting in person.

All that is being proposed at the Federal level and in most states, is that ballot applications be sent to all registered voters. Not ballots. The idea that people are going to go around and steal ballots out of mailboxes by the thousands is absurd. And even if they did, they would only serve to disenfranchise, their fraudulent ballots will never be counted. Poll watchers from both sides will see to that.
Exactly. The arguments against mail-in voting, especially during a pandemic, are ridiculous, childish, and clearly anti-democratic.
 

GoodasGold

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Even the NYT said there's double the chance of voter fraud via mail-in voting.

"Yet votes cast by mail are less likely to be counted, more likely to be compromised and more likely to be contested than those cast in a voting booth, statistics show. Election officials reject almost 2 percent of ballots cast by mail, double the rate for in-person voting."

Error and Fraud at Issue as Absentee Voting Rises
The NYT as we all know is a phony news source.
 

justthefacts

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Even the NYT said there's double the chance of voter fraud via mail-in voting.

"Yet votes cast by mail are less likely to be counted, more likely to be compromised and more likely to be contested than those cast in a voting booth, statistics show. Election officials reject almost 2 percent of ballots cast by mail, double the rate for in-person voting."

Error and Fraud at Issue as Absentee Voting Rises
So what you're saying is that when there are issues, they get caught. I agree.
 

KillerGopherFan

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So what you’re saying is that EVERYONE is eligible to vote via absentee ballot. I agree.

No change is policy or procedures is required. This isn’t some privilege that the GOP legislators get that others do not.

There’s a process that must be followed to receive an absentee ballot. If voters want one, follow the process.

But stop acting like mass mailings of absentee ballots wouldn’t be different.
 

justthefacts

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So what you’re saying is that EVERYONE is eligible to vote via absentee ballot. I agree.

No change is policy or procedures is required. This isn’t some privilege that the GOP legislators get that others do not.

There’s a process that must be followed to receive an absentee ballot. If voters want one, follow the process.

But stop acting like mass mailings of absentee ballots wouldn’t be different.
That's just wrong. Many states require an excuse to vote absentee.

Of course, the "ZOMG, vote by mail would lead to massive problems" crowd continues to ignore Utah.



 

Costa Rican Gopher

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So what you're saying is that when there are issues, they get caught. I agree.
No, that's not what I, nor the article are saying.

It says that decisions on whether or not to count ballots are arbitrary & up to the people counting them. Absentee ballots were required to sign the outside of the return envelope. Many did not sign the outside of the return envelope, so they were discarded. Many were discarded when the vote counter arbitrarily decided the signature on the return envelope did not match closely enough, the signature on file at the county.


“This ‘r’ is not like that ‘r,’ ” Judge Augustus D. Aikens Jr. said, suggesting that a ballot should be rejected.

Ion Sancho, the elections supervisor here, disagreed. “This ‘k’ is like that ‘k,’ ” he replied, and he persuaded his colleagues to count the vote."
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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The Al Franken election is a great example. He won by 312 votes, while election judges rejected 12,000 absentee ballots.

"The list of very close elections includes the 2008 Senate race in Minnesota, in which Mr. Franken’s victory over Mr. Coleman, the Republican incumbent, helped give Democrats the 60 votes in the Senate needed to pass President Obama’s health care bill. Mr. Franken won by 312 votes, while state officials rejected 12,000 absentee ballots. Recent primary elections in New York involving Republican state senators who had voted to allow same-sex marriage also hinged on absentee ballots."
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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The reason the Dems want mail-in voting is the opportunity to cheat. Specifically in battleground states where the vote count is likely to be close enough to effect. It also allows them to litigate the results when they lose, and claim the election was illegitimate.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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"In the last presidential election, 35.5 million voters requested absentee ballots, but only 27.9 million absentee votes were counted, according to a study by Charles Stewart III, a political scientist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He calculated that 3.9 million ballots requested by voters never reached them; that another 2.9 million ballots received by voters did not make it back to election officials; and that election officials rejected 800,000 ballots. That suggests an overall failure rate of as much as 21 percent.

Some voters presumably decided not to vote after receiving ballots, but Mr. Stewart said many others most likely tried to vote and were thwarted. “If 20 percent, or even 10 percent, of voters who stood in line on Election Day were turned away,” he wrote in the study, published in The Journal of Legislation and Public Policy, “there would be national outrage.”
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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"Yet votes cast by mail are less likely to be counted, more likely to be compromised and more likely to be contested than those cast in a voting booth, statistics show. Election officials reject almost 2 percent of ballots cast by mail, double the rate for in-person voting."

"The flaws of absentee voting raise questions about the most elementary promises of democracy. “The right to have one’s vote counted is as important as the act of voting itself,” Justice Paul H. Anderson of the Minnesota Supreme Court wrote while considering disputed absentee ballots in the close 2008 Senate election between Al Franken and Norm Coleman."
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Exactly. The arguments against mail-in voting, especially during a pandemic, are ridiculous, childish, and clearly anti-democratic.
How about a compromise. Republicans will agree to mail-in voting, but only Republicans get to count the votes? That way everyone can be sure there's no trickery & no one can question the results.
 

justthefacts

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The Al Franken election is a great example. He won by 312 votes, while election judges rejected 12,000 absentee ballots.

"The list of very close elections includes the 2008 Senate race in Minnesota, in which Mr. Franken’s victory over Mr. Coleman, the Republican incumbent, helped give Democrats the 60 votes in the Senate needed to pass President Obama’s health care bill. Mr. Franken won by 312 votes, while state officials rejected 12,000 absentee ballots. Recent primary elections in New York involving Republican state senators who had voted to allow same-sex marriage also hinged on absentee ballots."
And since vote by mail is a Democrat scheme, I guess Franken would have won by 12,312 votes.
 

howeda7

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So what you’re saying is that EVERYONE is eligible to vote via absentee ballot. I agree.

No change is policy or procedures is required. This isn’t some privilege that the GOP legislators get that others do not.

There’s a process that must be followed to receive an absentee ballot. If voters want one, follow the process.

But stop acting like mass mailings of absentee ballots wouldn’t be different.
What is being suggested by most people is mailing the applications for the ballots. But in addition to that, most states don't allow no excuse absentee voting and won't add an exception for COVID. So you won't qualify for one unless you lie and say you're going to be traveling etc.

Send everyone an application. Allow anyone who wants to vote absentee to do so. Make the ballots and applications postage free. All other regular rules for absentee voting still apply. That's all that we're trying to do. The R's are viscerally opposed. Why?
 

KillerGopherFan

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That's just wrong. Many states require an excuse to vote absentee.

Of course, the "ZOMG, vote by mail would lead to massive problems" crowd continues to ignore Utah.



I vote in Illinois, the 2nd toughest restrictions on your chart. I’ve voted absentee multiple times. I voted in early voting multiple times. I’ve never voted on Election Day in the last 12 years.

So the other require and excuse. If you work on Election Day, that is an excuse, no? If you’re out of town? If you have a health issue?

Having an ”excuse” isn’t difficult. It certainly doesn’t justify the need to send out mass absentee ballots to any and all names registered to vote, especially those that haven’t voted and may have changed residents or died.
 

KillerGopherFan

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What is being suggested by most people is mailing the applications for the ballots. But in addition to that, most states don't allow no excuse absentee voting and won't add an exception for COVID. So you won't qualify for one unless you lie and say you're going to be traveling etc.

Send everyone an application. Allow anyone who wants to vote absentee to do so. Make the ballots and applications postage free. All other regular rules for absentee voting still apply. That's all that we're trying to do. The R's are viscerally opposed. Why?
If someone doesn’t have a reason not to vote in person, then they don’t have an excuse not to.

Mailing applications may reduce the likelihood of voter fraud, but it still makes it more possible.

We have a fine system for absentee voting. It is available. If someone can’t take the time to request an absentee ballot, what’s the chances that they take the time to evaluate candidates? More likely, someone else would be voting for them b/c they didn’t care enough to make any effort. That’s not permitted.
 

bga1

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One in 5 New Jersey mail in ballots found to be fraudulent. One in five....

But those Russian troll farms!
 

howeda7

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If someone doesn’t have a reason not to vote in person, then they don’t have an excuse not to.

Mailing applications may reduce the likelihood of voter fraud, but it still makes it more possible.

We have a fine system for absentee voting. It is available. If someone can’t take the time to request an absentee ballot, what’s the chances that they take the time to evaluate candidates? More likely, someone else would be voting for them b/c they didn’t care enough to make any effort. That’s not permitted.
We're in a pandemic. We ALL have a reason not to go stand in line with dozens of other people if we have an easy alternative. THAT'S THE POINT!

There's only one reason you don't want to make absentee voting easy and accessible. The more people who vote, the more likely it is your hero and your party will get smoked. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Just say that and quit with the BS pretzeling.
 

KillerGopherFan

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We're in a pandemic. We ALL have a reason not to go stand in line with dozens of other people if we have an easy alternative. THAT'S THE POINT!

There's only one reason you don't want to make absentee voting easy and accessible. The more people who vote, the more likely it is your hero and your party will get smoked. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Just say that and quit with the BS pretzeling.
Do you go to the store? Do you go to Costco or Target or Walmart? Do you go to work? Do you have any interaction with people?

People who don’t feel safe can get an absentee ballot. All they have to do is ask. I’ve done it many times before without leaving the safety of my home.

The reason I don’t want mass absentee voting is b/c I want only legitimate votes to count. That’s the only reason. The fact that you can’t accept that says more about your TDS than anything.

You won’t see me whaling at the sky if Joe Bumblefuk wins.

The reason you want mass absentee ballots to go out is so lefties like you can vote for their dead relatives. I wouldn’t have make that comment except that you feel the need to insult my motivations, so F off.
 

howeda7

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Do you go to the store? Do you go to Costco or Target or Walmart? Do you go to work? Do you have any interaction with people?

People who don’t feel safe can get an absentee ballot. All they have to do is ask. I’ve done it many times before without leaving the safety of my home.

The reason I don’t want mass absentee voting is b/c I want only legitimate votes to count. That’s the only reason. The fact that you can’t accept that says more about your TDS than anything.

You won’t see me whaling at the sky if Joe Bumblefuk wins.
I don't go to Walmart or Costco often because it's just as easy to have things delivered. See, there's an ALTERNATIVE to going and standing in line. Novel idea, right?

No. They can't "just ask" in most states. That AGAIN is the entire point. You're either ignorant of the issue at hand, or being intentionally obtuse.
 

KillerGopherFan

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No. They can't "just ask" in most states. That AGAIN is the entire point. You're either ignorant of the issue at hand, or being intentionally obtuse.
According to JTF, I’m in the second highest level of difficulty state for getting an absentee ballot, and I have absolutely no problem getting an absentee ballot.
 
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