National Vote by Mail - Do You Now Support It

WhoFellDownTheGopherHole?

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I stopped in the Post Office in NE Mpls behind the Quarry last Thursday and there was a line all the way out the door. I spent an hour+ to see the lone cashier. People were complaining so the Manager came out & explained that due to Covid they hardly had any employees left, and were doing the best they could. These are the people that are going to suddenly process an extra 300 million ballots.

That'd be really alarming if they had to process 300 million ballots considering that last election year there were only 250 million people in this country of legal voting age, and the total record setting number of voters was only just a shade under 139 million people.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Except he has railed repeatedly against ALL VBM. Given that Florida allows VBM for no reason (ie, not absentee) its quite clear that someone has finally reasoned with him
I have not seen him rail against ALL VBM. He’s always supported absentee voting. You’re free to post any quotes where he said ALL VBM was bad, including absentee?
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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That'd be really alarming if they had to process 300 million ballots considering that last election year there were only 250 million people in this country of legal voting age, and the total record setting number of voters was only just a shade under 139 million people.
The ballots don't just magically get to people's mailboxes. Well, they're no supposed to anyhow. 139 million each way is 280 million ballots that have to be processed & delivered.

At the end of the day, New York, one of the states at the forefront of wanting to change how we vote, still hasn't been able to declare winners of the primaries back in June. Now imagine that had been the Presidential election, now imagine if it was nation wide, not just New York? It's already fallen flat on it's face at the smaller level. Hard pass.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Not regarding this. Oregon, Colorado and others already do what Nevada is doing. Almost no fraud reported.
So you learned something new. You weren’t saying that a couple weeks ago.

Oregon and Colorado aren’t typical of many US states, likewise Nevada. They have a residents in remote parts of the states and more need for mail in. More importantly, the process was not a whim thought up by some partisan with a national election in less 3 months. Most states, especially larger ones, would not be able to gear up for such a event, and the post office would likely be overwhelmed.

But you are ignoring all the problems happening in New York’s democrat primary. 20% of ballots were thrown out and the results are being challenged in court.

If states attempt to do mail in voting in November, the Bush vs Gore election will look like a simple dispute compared to what would happen in this national election and its doubtful that there would not be long legal challenges to many results. That’d be great for the country.
 

WhoFellDownTheGopherHole?

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The ballots don't just magically get to people's mailboxes. Well, they're no supposed to anyhow. 139 million each way is 280 million ballots that have to be processed & delivered.

At the end of the day, New York, one of the states at the forefront of wanting to change how we vote, still hasn't been able to declare winners of the primaries back in June. Now imagine that had been the Presidential election, now imagine if it was nation wide, not just New York? It's already fallen flat on it's face at the smaller level. Hard pass.
Wait. So every time the ballots get moved through an additional part of the process, the count gets doubled? Ok. Let's see...if we go back to beginning production with logging and paper mills and account for every change of hands, i think you really mean they'll have to account for closer to 300 billion ballots!

Yikes, you're right. That does seem like an awful lot. :eek:
 

TruthSeeker

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So you learned something new. You weren’t saying that a couple weeks ago.

Oregon and Colorado aren’t typical of many US states, likewise Nevada. They have a residents in remote parts of the states and more need for mail in. More importantly, the process was not a whim thought up by some partisan with a national election in less 3 months. Most states, especially larger ones, would not be able to gear up for such a event, and the post office would likely be overwhelmed.

But you are ignoring all the problems happening in New York’s democrat primary. 20% of ballots were thrown out and the results are being challenged in court.

If states attempt to do mail in voting in November, the Bush vs Gore election will look like a simple dispute compared to what would happen in this national election and its doubtful that there would not be long legal challenges to many results. That’d be great for the country.
Lots of truth here. It can't just be implemented. It does take time. We need to allow as many people to vote by mail possible, without excuses, but also have lots of polling places. We need to supply lots of PPE to poll workers and maybe even set up some booths outside. Might need the national guard activated to staff the polls.
 

howeda7

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So you learned something new. You weren’t saying that a couple weeks ago.

Oregon and Colorado aren’t typical of many US states, likewise Nevada. They have a residents in remote parts of the states and more need for mail in. More importantly, the process was not a whim thought up by some partisan with a national election in less 3 months. Most states, especially larger ones, would not be able to gear up for such a event, and the post office would likely be overwhelmed.

But you are ignoring all the problems happening in New York’s democrat primary. 20% of ballots were thrown out and the results are being challenged in court.

If states attempt to do mail in voting in November, the Bush vs Gore election will look like a simple dispute compared to what would happen in this national election and its doubtful that there would not be long legal challenges to many results. That’d be great for the country.
What is being proposed Federally by Klobuchar and others is simply to provide funding to states to mail all registered voters an absentee ballot application and funding to make the return of ballots postage paid. This would make it easier for people to vote absentee. It would not change the rules they must abide by to do so, which is still up to the states. Yet you Fellas are in a complete froth over it.

Yes, New York bungled their primary. That's on them. Many others states had no issue with a surge in mail in ballots during their primary. It went fine in Iowa, SD and other states. There's no reason mail in votes are any harder to count than in person votes. They're not. They require extra verification which can largely be done before election day.

The only thing that can make it a cluster is if the US Postal Service is gutted and unable to deliver ballots in a timely manner. Which is exactly what Trump and his donor stooge are doing.
 

KillerGopherFan

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What is being proposed Federally by Klobuchar and others is simply to provide funding to states to mail all registered voters an absentee ballot application and funding to make the return of ballots postage paid. This would make it easier for people to vote absentee. It would not change the rules they must abide by to do so, which is still up to the states. Yet you Fellas are in a complete froth over it.

Yes, New York bungled their primary. That's on them. Many others states had no issue with a surge in mail in ballots during their primary. It went fine in Iowa, SD and other states. There's no reason mail in votes are any harder to count than in person votes. They're not. They require extra verification which can largely be done before election day.

The only thing that can make it a cluster is if the US Postal Service is gutted and unable to deliver ballots in a timely manner. Which is exactly what Trump and his donor stooge are doing.
JTF posted a Trump tweet about Florida mail in voting. Florida REQUIRES a voter to request an absentee ballot. There is no reason that states voters can’t use the current system of absentee ballot requests.

The notion that states will be able to organize and implement an unrequested mail-in ballot system within a couple months is a joke, and so will the results be. You and yours will be claiming you’re getting screwed if you lose even though you wanted it, and you should have no reason to bitch about something you and yours have foisted on the US.
 
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bigticket1

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What is being proposed Federally by Klobuchar and others is simply to provide funding to states to mail all registered voters an absentee ballot application and funding to make the return of ballots postage paid. This would make it easier for people to vote absentee. It would not change the rules they must abide by to do so, which is still up to the states. Yet you Fellas are in a complete froth over it.

Yes, New York bungled their primary. That's on them. Many others states had no issue with a surge in mail in ballots during their primary. It went fine in Iowa, SD and other states. There's no reason mail in votes are any harder to count than in person votes. They're not. They require extra verification which can largely be done before election day.

The only thing that can make it a cluster is if the US Postal Service is gutted and unable to deliver ballots in a timely manner. Which is exactly what Trump and his donor stooge are doing.
Mail in ballots are the same as the ballots used for in-person voting. And are counted the same way.
 

stocker08

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Right, so 80-100 million more over 2 months. Thst's 4-5 hours worth of work. Still not a problem.

No need to fear.
CRG isn't actually worried about whether the post office can handle the ballots. It's an excuse to favor the bastardizing of the election.....because it's the only possible way that Drumpf can win at this point.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Nevada is going to mail ballots to ”Inactive voters”. How does a person become inactive? Every two years Nevada sends a new registration card to everyone on the rolls. The postal service returns the card if the addressee does not live there. Government voter registration then sends another post card to warn the person that they have 30 days to respond to either confirm or update the address. If they don’t respond, they are added to the Inactive voter file. There are 200,000 in Clark County, Nevada of those Inactive Voters that have failed to respond to the mailings.

If those voters showed up to vote in-person, they would be required to show ID and update their address on the registration file.

So now, they are going to mail an unsecured ballot to those Inactive voters that haven’t responded to the prior notifications, even though the postal service has indicated that those registered voters don’t live there anymore.

What could go wrong?
 

Livingat45north

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Is any part of the NY gov't still actually functioning these days? Six weeks and counting and they still can't get their absentee ballots sorted out.

More than 120,000 absentee ballots were filed in Kings County for the June 23 primary but about 30,000 were initially disqualified

The Health Commissioner quit due to Mayor Bill de Blasio stripping her agency of a way to track COVID. The police are quitting their jobs. The courts are releasing criminals back onto the streets without bail and to no ones surprise they keep shooting people, The taxpayers are leaving the state, and aren't coming back. And Cuomo is desperately trying to find someone to blame for his decision to send COVID infected people to live in LTCs.

 
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Ogee Oglethorpe

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Nevada is going to mail ballots to ”Inactive voters”. How does a person become inactive? Every two years Nevada sends a new registration card to everyone on the rolls. The postal service returns the card if the addressee does not live there. Government voter registration then sends another post card to warn the person that they have 30 days to respond to either confirm or update the address. If they don’t respond, they are added to the Inactive voter file. There are 200,000 in Clark County, Nevada of those Inactive Voters that have failed to respond to the mailings.

If those voters showed up to vote in-person, they would be required to show ID and update their address on the registration file.

So now, they are going to mail an unsecured ballot to those Inactive voters that haven’t responded to the prior notifications, even though the postal service has indicated that those registered voters don’t live there anymore.

What could go wrong?
This stunk so unbelievably bad it is embarrassing to the state of NV. Governor Sisolak was one of the most corrupt government officials in the state when he served on the Clark County Commission and now he's commanding the ship.

Ramming this through in the middle of the night last Friday night, zero public involvement, zero input from Secretary of State, and I saw a piece on the news somewhere:

Original Bill Version: Opinions For: 81 Opinions Against: 5,522
July 31, 2020 Version: Opinions For: 8 Opinions Against: 1,004

What a complete and total POS.
 

justthefacts

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I have not seen him rail against ALL VBM. He’s always supported absentee voting. You’re free to post any quotes where he said ALL VBM was bad, including absentee?
First of all, the entire point is that he's not advocating absentee voting in Florida, he's advocating vote by mail. You don't have to have a reason (eg, being away from polling place) to VBM in Florida, so he's telling people to VBM now that he realizes he needs to. He said, " request a Ballot & Vote by Mail!," without mentioning anything about being an absentee.

He usually didn't differentiate at all before when he was against it, and he's not differentiating now that he realizes it was hurting him in Florida. These tweets are pretty irrelevant now since he's not actually saying that only absentee is OK, but here you go.



 

bga1

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First of all, the entire point is that he's not advocating absentee voting in Florida, he's advocating vote by mail. You don't have to have a reason (eg, being away from polling place) to VBM in Florida, so he's telling people to VBM now that he realizes he needs to. He said, " request a Ballot & Vote by Mail!," without mentioning anything about being an absentee.

He usually didn't differentiate at all before when he was against it, and he's not differentiating now that he realizes it was hurting him in Florida. These tweets are pretty irrelevant now since he's not actually saying that only absentee is OK, but here you go.



Isn't it a bummer when your opponent fights just as hard and dirty as you do. You liars and cheaters have been having your way with the rules for years and finally someone stands up to you.
 

justthefacts

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Isn't it a bummer when your opponent fights just as hard and dirty as you do. You liars and cheaters have been having your way with the rules for years and finally someone stands up to you.
I actually think it would be a good thing if everyone in Florida voted by mail, so you're not really making the point you think you are.
 

Panthadad2

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All I know is that if several states with screwed up voter registration roles suddenly shift to "all mail in voting", this next election might be endless. There are dozens of candidates on every ballot, not just President. How many candidates in jurisdictions across the country will be suing after election day? Both parties will be involved.

I hope the county election offices involved get this figured out ahead of time (and post office too). I've worked elections before and am not hopeful.

That said, I'll be doing early absentee voting and personally handing the ballot to the election official. The post office lost my trust for important stuff years ago.
 

KillerGopherFan

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First of all, the entire point is that he's not advocating absentee voting in Florida, he's advocating vote by mail. You don't have to have a reason (eg, being away from polling place) to VBM in Florida, so he's telling people to VBM now that he realizes he needs to. He said, " request a Ballot & Vote by Mail!," without mentioning anything about being an absentee.

He usually didn't differentiate at all before when he was against it, and he's not differentiating now that he realizes it was hurting him in Florida. These tweets are pretty irrelevant now since he's not actually saying that only absentee is OK, but here you go.



If the ONLY way to VBM in Florida is ‘absentee voting’, just like it is in my home state of Illinois, then he’s talking about absentee voting only.

I requested an absentee ballot. I likely will be voting absentee, even though I wasn’t required to actually be unavailable to vote here. So I may VBM using the absentee process. That’s very different than having unsolicited ballots being sent to every registered voter.

You can post his tweets all you want. It has been repeatedly explained that Trump favors VBM using the absentee process and not the unsolicited ballot process.
 

Panthadad2

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If the ONLY way to VBM in Florida is ‘absentee voting’, just like it is in my home state of Illinois, then he’s talking about absentee voting only.

I requested an absentee ballot. I likely will be voting absentee, even though I wasn’t required to actually be unavailable to vote here. So I may VBM using the absentee process. That’s very different than having unsolicited ballots being sent to every registered voter.

You can post his tweets all you want. It has been repeatedly explained that Trump favors VBM using the absentee process and not the unsolicited ballot process.
Maybe you've already confirmed in another post, Florida is an absentee vote by mail state. This summarizes rules by State as of June.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/501577-heres-where-your-state-stands-on-mail-in-voting
 

justthefacts

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If the ONLY way to VBM in Florida is ‘absentee voting’, just like it is in my home state of Illinois, then he’s talking about absentee voting only.

I requested an absentee ballot. I likely will be voting absentee, even though I wasn’t required to actually be unavailable to vote here. So I may VBM using the absentee process. That’s very different than having unsolicited ballots being sent to every registered voter.

You can post his tweets all you want. It has been repeatedly explained that Trump favors VBM using the absentee process and not the unsolicited ballot process.
As I've now said in 3 different posts, absentee is NOT THE ONLY way to VBM in Florida. Anyone can request a mail-in ballot for any reason. Absentee implies you are not able to vote in person. 16 states require you provide a reason why you cannot vote in person, but FL is not one of them. In general VBM could be absentee or just because you prefer it.



Very few places are talking about unsolicited ballots, and Trump has very rarely referred to those. He has painted all of VBM with a broad brush, and clearly people explained to him that it might hurt him. We find ourselves once again in the spot of you explaining that Trump didn't really mean what he repeatedly said.

That being said, Colorado, Oregon, and Washington send ballots to everyone, and no one has pointed out any fraud there. Utah votes primarily by mail and it's the same thing. I'd be very interested to hear why all mail voting would be more susceptible to fraud then you mailing in your ballot.
 

KillerGopherFan

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As I've now said in 3 different posts, absentee is NOT THE ONLY way to VBM in Florida. Anyone can request a mail-in ballot for any reason. Absentee implies you are not able to vote in person. 16 states require you provide a reason why you cannot vote in person, but FL is not one of them. In general VBM could be absentee or just because you prefer it.



Very few places are talking about unsolicited ballots, and Trump has very rarely referred to those. He has painted all of VBM with a broad brush, and clearly people explained to him that it might hurt him. We find ourselves once again in the spot of you explaining that Trump didn't really mean what he repeatedly said.

That being said, Colorado, Oregon, and Washington send ballots to everyone, and no one has pointed out any fraud there. Utah votes primarily by mail and it's the same thing. I'd be very interested to hear why all mail voting would be more susceptible to fraud then you mailing in your ballot.
Absentee IS the ONLY way to VBM in Florida. Same here in Illinois. It doesn’t mean that you are out of town and unavailable to vote. Absentee is the name of the process for not voting in person. It is not a name for the reason why you are not voting in-person.

Absentee DOES NOT imply that you are unable to vote in-person. I’m perfectly able to vote in person here in Illinois, and that IS NOT REQUIRED, but I’ve chosen not to vote in person and Illinois and Florida are okay with that.

Trump only referred to Florida in the Tweet that you posted. He explicitly said:

Whether you call it Vote by Mail or Absentee Voting, in Florida the election system is Safe and Secure, Tried and True. Florida’s Voting system has been cleaned up (we defeated Democrats attempts at change), so in Florida I encourage all to request a Ballot & Vote by Mail!

Different states have different rules, but many states that typically require an excuse to vote absentee are offering voters to vote absentee b/c of CV19.

Absentee voting is a process, not a description of a reason or excuse for being unable to vote in-person. It is a process that REQUIRES the voter to REQUEST A BALLOT.
 

MennoSota

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The difference between mail-in voting and absentee voting as shared by KARE 11.

There’s been some national debate over mail-in ballots and absentee ballots, and whether the terms are interchangeable or have different meanings.
All ballots that are sent through the mail share a few things in common: You have to be a registered voter to get one, you have to sign the ballot yourself and it has to be sent via the United States Postal Service.

President Trump has spoken out against mail-in ballots calling them a “formula for rigging an election.” But he’s also said that absentee ballots “are fine.” When asked for clarification on the difference, his administration has said that absentee ballots have to be requested through a different process.
So what exactly is the difference between the two ballots?

THE QUESTION:
What is the difference between mail-in ballots and absentee ballots?

THE ANSWER:
Yes, they are different, but only in one way.
Absentee ballots have to be requested by the voter to be mailed out. Mail-in ballots typically refer to states where the ballots are sent to all registered voters whether they requested one or not.

WHAT WE FOUND:
The National Conference of State Legislatures divides ballots that are sent by the mail into two categories: “Absentee” and “All-Mail Voting.”

Absentee ballots have to be requested along with a reason for voting absentee.
The following 29 states and Washington, D.C., let any registered voter request an absentee ballot for any reason: Alaska, Arizona, California, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Vermont, Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.
Florida does require that registered voters request a ballot, but the state legally changed the name in 2016 from “absentee” to “vote-by-mail.”

In 16 states, you must have a reason or “excuse” to request and receive an absentee ballot. Qualifying reasons vary from state to state, but voters typically have to show why they cannot physically be at the polling location, like military service or out-of-state school.
 
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