National Council of Churches

Wally

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Well, not quite. I, for one, believe the Bible is the Word of God, recalled by man, written by man, interpreted by man, and translated by man. The Bible you read at home is like...tenth-hand.

But god inspired them all so its dead on accurate...
🙄
 

MennoSota

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Damn. You seemed like the go-to guy for the exact, perfect explanation. You seemed very, very confident that you know exactly what God wants.

Now, I guess I'm left to interpret the Bible for myself. Not to be a snowflake, but I feel abandoned.
All I did was copy and paste a Bible section. How you read it is up to you.
 

RememberMurray

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All I did was copy and paste a Bible section. How you read it is up to you.

Exactly. That seems to be the way the whole Bible thing works: the book was apparently never meant to be taken literally, so everybody gets to put their own spin on it.
 

MennoSota

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Exactly. That seems to be the way the whole Bible thing works: the book was apparently never meant to be taken literally, so everybody gets to put their own spin on it.
What do you think Jesus was literally saying in John 10?
 

RememberMurray

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What do you think Jesus was literally saying in John 10?

???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see Jesus as a fictional character in an often incoherent, sometimes absurd and occasionally mildly profound Bronze Age book. I'm an atheist. Why in the world would you ask me to explain to you what Jesus meant? It's like asking me about Gandalf in Lord of the Rings.

I tried asking you why I should actually believe any of this stuff. I was hoping that, if you really believed all this, you'd be able articulate a reason.

That, obviously, did not go well.
 
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howeda7

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Well, not quite. I, for one, believe the Bible is the Word of God, recalled by man, written by man, interpreted by man, and translated by man. The Bible you read at home is like...tenth-hand.
This.
 

MennoSota

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???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see Jesus as a fictional character in an often incoherent, sometimes absurd and occasionally mildly profound Bronze Age book. I'm an atheist. Why in the world would you ask me to explain to you what Jesus meant? It's like asking me about Gandalf in Lord of the Rings.

I tried asking you why I should actually believe any of this stuff. I was hoping that, if you really believed all this, you'd be able articulate a reason.

That, obviously, did not go well.
Just because you think he's fictional (even though most atheists acknowledge the evidence is strong regarding a real person) that doesn't mean you can't tell us what the literal meaning of John 10 is. Or is your version of atheism incapable of understanding literature? 🤔😏
 

RememberMurray

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Just because you think he's fictional (even though most atheists acknowledge the evidence is strong regarding a real person) that doesn't mean you can't tell us what the literal meaning of John 10 is. Or is your version of atheism incapable of understanding literature? 🤔😏

Good grief.

You insist that your very, very special invisible friend is the "one true way", but when asked for reasons for your "deep, sincere" belief, this is what you come up with.
 

MennoSota

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Good grief.

You insist that your very, very special invisible friend is the "one true way", but when asked for reasons for your "deep, sincere" belief, this is what you come up with.
This has nothing to do with invisible or not. It just has to do with what is written. Many Bible scholars are atheists. They are capable of reading literature. Is your version of atheism incapable of reading literature and comprehending what it says? I couldn't care less if you personally believe anything. The discussion was brought up because Nokomis made a claim about Jesus and I asked what Jesus says in the gospel of John. You can either address that dialogue or bow out as one who has no opinion. It doesn't bother me if you have no opinion on the text or if you think the text is mythology. I just ask if the text supports Nokomis claim or not.
Relax. I don't care if you are an atheist. If that makes you happy, good for you.
 

RememberMurray

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This has nothing to do with invisible or not. It just has to do with what is written. Many Bible scholars are atheists. They are capable of reading literature. Is your version of atheism incapable of reading literature and comprehending what it says? I couldn't care less if you personally believe anything. The discussion was brought up because Nokomis made a claim about Jesus and I asked what Jesus says in the gospel of John. You can either address that dialogue or bow out as one who has no opinion. It doesn't bother me if you have no opinion on the text or if you think the text is mythology. I just ask if the text supports Nokomis claim or not.
Relax. I don't care if you are an atheist. If that makes you happy, good for you.

What exactly are you asking me to do? Are you saying I need to find an online Bible and repost the gospel of John? Are you asking me to then analyze or comment on the gospel of John? Are you hoping we can debate about the meaning of the gospel of John? Are you assuming that the reason I'm an atheist is that I just don't understand your Bible?

What is your point?
 

MennoSota

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What exactly are you asking me to do? Are you saying I need to find an online Bible and repost the gospel of John? Are you asking me to then analyze or comment on the gospel of John? Are you hoping we can debate about the meaning of the gospel of John? Are you assuming that the reason I'm an atheist is that I just don't understand your Bible?

What is your point?
You seem confused. Go back and read how the subject started. Then answer the original question. Or, just admit you are clueless and let it go.
 

RememberMurray

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You seem confused. Go back and read how the subject started. Then answer the original question. Or, just admit you are clueless and let it go.

I'm not confused at all. I will admit it's weird that you want me to answer questions about your invisible friend, but...
 

RememberMurray

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I have a feeling that the correct answer to "the original question" is simple; I must follow your invisible friend, or I will burn. Those are my choices. That's pretty much the entire dealio, isn't it? Jesus as Mafia boss.

I think that pretty much sums it up. Hope that helps.
 
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Wally

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???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see Jesus as a fictional character in an often incoherent, sometimes absurd and occasionally mildly profound Bronze Age book. I'm an atheist. Why in the world would you ask me to explain to you what Jesus meant? It's like asking me about Gandalf in Lord of the Rings.

I tried asking you why I should actually believe any of this stuff. I was hoping that, if you really believed all this, you'd be able articulate a reason.

That, obviously, did not go well.

You should believe it because then your a part of the gang. It feels good to be part of the gang.
 

Wally

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Dang nabbit, I believe in God, I can't say why, I don't even know why, I just do.

So persuasive.....🙄
 

Section2

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It amuses me when people who are not religious spend time debating those who are. It’s always the same kinds of people.
 

Wally

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It amuses me when people who are not religious spend time debating those who are. It’s always the same kinds of people.

What are you Deuce?
Have you consumated your marriage with Christ yet?
 

Nokomis

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???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

I see Jesus as a fictional character in an often incoherent, sometimes absurd and occasionally mildly profound Bronze Age book. I'm an atheist. Why in the world would you ask me to explain to you what Jesus meant? It's like asking me about Gandalf in Lord of the Rings.

I tried asking you why I should actually believe any of this stuff. I was hoping that, if you really believed all this, you'd be able articulate a reason.

That, obviously, did not go well.
What are your thoughts on Tom Bombadil being completely left out of The Hobbit trilogy movies? Seems to me Bombadil could have replaced Radagast's expanded role. Plus, then we could have seen who they cast for Goldberry.
 

Nokomis

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Sometimes when I imagine how the Bible was written, I think of The Life Aquatic when Steve reads the letter he wrote to a young Ned. "Dictated but not read."

7456c8bf-5d62-415e-91ac-e27120bfef8e_text_hi.gif
 

golf

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Personally i have little trouble with difficult parts of the bible as see them as cultural/hygenic/ holiness issues.

When i start to doubt my faith, my mind goes to things like how did something come out of nothing. A popular theory now is multiverses but even Lawrence Krauss doubts that. Then i also think about how could something as complex as the human eye or brain happen through random chance. Through historical documents we read of early christian leaders who were acquaintances of the apostles and were admired by the romans - yet they chose death rather than renounce. On a more personal level, although i am not charismatic, i have seen myself and heard of too many miracles experienced by credible people to believe the natural world that we see is all there is. Finally when i see all the gymnastics that some scholars go thru to discredit the bible it makes me doubt their ideas.

I can see how someone can be an agnostic i guess. Really hard for me to see how someone can be atheist, as the evidence doesnt hold for that.
 
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golf

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Yep, our small minds need an explanation.

Dont think it is fair that christians are required to have all the answers for their beliefs but atheists can say, "well we just dont know yet" or "we just dont understand" for problems with atheism.
 

saintpaulguy

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What are your thoughts on Tom Bombadil being completely left out of The Hobbit trilogy movies? Seems to me Bombadil could have replaced Radagast's expanded role. Plus, then we could have seen who they cast for Goldberry.
I've never seen any of the Hobbit movies, and have always wondered how they stretch it to a trilogy. I just finished reading the Fellowship of the Ring with my kid, (been 40 years since I last read it), and I can't imagine anyone wanting more Tom Bombadil. Pages of almost rhyming drivel.
 

Wally

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Dont think it is fair that christians are required to have all the answers for their beliefs but atheists can say, "well we just dont know yet" or "we just dont understand" for atheist beliefs.

Fair?
Maybe not, but I think it's fair to ask for the reasons someone believes something. Its no surprise they built in an easy out, "faith".

Honestly the best answer I have ever heard is that they are covering their bases, just in case it's true.

I think Jesus message is a pretty good one.

To bad its been co-opted by so many for money and power.
 

golf

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Fair?
Maybe not, but I think it's fair to ask for the reasons someone believes something. Its no surprise they built in an easy out, "faith".

Honestly the best answer I have ever heard is that they are covering their bases, just in case it's true.

I think Jesus message is a pretty good one.

To bad its been co-opted by so many for money and power.

When looking at the evidence i think it takes more faith to be an atheist than a christian. See post 174.
 

RememberMurray

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Dont think it is fair that christians are required to have all the answers for their beliefs but atheists can say, "well we just dont know yet" or "we just dont understand" for problems with atheism.

I'd never expect Christianity to "have all the answers". Ha. Far from it.

But when people proclaim that there is only 'one true way,' and it can only be accessed through their own particular version of an invisible friend, I reserve the right to ask them questions about their invisible friend, and about his laws.
 
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