National Council of Churches

saintpaulguy · Jan 12, 2021

Blizzard said:
Indeed, yes. These are churches that teach everything up to and including universalism. We can speak reasonably about what is false.

How do you know Unitarians are angry with you?
You find a question mark burning on your lawn.

Nokomis · Jan 12, 2021

MennoSota said:
Since this thread has devolved, I will only state that Jesus words should dictate how one is a Christian or isn't a Christian.

Jesus addressed that question in the 10th chapter of John's gospel. Accept it or reject it, I don't care, but I think Jesus gets the final say about who he chooses as a follower.
John 10:24-30
So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

I have nothing more to say. I figure Jesus gets to choose who are his followers and who aren't. I find this entire thread to be filled with comments that don't really care what Jesus actually stated. Read John 10 and figure it out for yourselves. This is my only comment on this matter. I am out.

You do you, bro. I prefer to err on the side of inclusivity vs. exclusivity.

USAF · Jan 12, 2021

RememberMurray said:
It's fun quoting Bible verses. I've learned today that we can ignore the ones that Jesus freed us from.

If only there was a list of the ones Jesus freed us from.

Blizzard · Jan 12, 2021

RememberMurray said:
So now I'm actually giving the lesson on what your beliefs actually mean? Just a minute ago you were handing out reading lists like a school marm.

You're the one posting Scripture. If you don't know it means why are you bothering to post it then?

RememberMurray · Jan 12, 2021

USAF said:
If only there was a list of the ones Jesus freed us from.

It seems a bit open to individual interpretation, doesn't it?

RememberMurray · Jan 12, 2021

Blizzard said:
You're the one posting Scripture. If you don't know it means why are you bothering to post it then?

So that you can explain it to me! I think of you as my spiritual guide now.

Blizzard · Jan 12, 2021

saintpaulguy said:
How do you know Unitarians are angry with you?
You find a question mark burning on your lawn.

Well, the Unitarians are a pretty wacky bunch.

howeda7 · Jan 12, 2021

RememberMurray said:
It seems a bit open to individual interpretation, doesn't it?

There is only one right interpretation.... Theirs.

RememberMurray · Jan 12, 2021

Blizzard said:
Well, the Unitarians are a pretty wacky bunch.

Ironic Post of the Year candidate.

RememberMurray · Jan 12, 2021

howeda7 said:
There is only one right interpretation.... Theirs.

Yep. With religions, it always seems to boil down to that, doesn't it?

howeda7 · Jan 12, 2021

MennoSota said:
Since this thread has devolved, I will only state that Jesus words should dictate how one is a Christian or isn't a Christian.

Jesus addressed that question in the 10th chapter of John's gospel. Accept it or reject it, I don't care, but I think Jesus gets the final say about who he chooses as a follower.
John 10:24-30
So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.” Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me,is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one."

I have nothing more to say. I figure Jesus gets to choose who are his followers and who aren't. I find this entire thread to be filled with comments that don't really care what Jesus actually stated. Read John 10 and figure it out for yourselves. This is my only comment on this matter. I am out.

Preach Reverend Tiny!

RememberMurray · Jan 12, 2021

saintpaulguy said:
How do you know Unitarians are angry with you?
You find a question mark burning on your lawn.

In my experience, Unitarians just never seem to be all that angry.

USAF · Jan 12, 2021

So to reiterate, the NCC wants Trump out.

Pretty hard for me to understand why a Christian wouldn't agree.

Blizzard · Jan 12, 2021

RememberMurray said:
So that you can explain it to me! I think of you as my spiritual guide now.

Blizzard · Jan 12, 2021

Nokomis said:
Then this is where our reasonable conversation ends. You and I have very different interpretations of the Bible. But I've never called your faith false.

Fair enough.

Wally · Wednesday at 8:50 AM

MennoSota said:
I have nothing more to say. I figure Jesus gets to choose who are his followers and who aren't.

What do you think of people who claim to be his followers and also claim the right to decide who else is a follower. Thats the crux of the issue.

MennoSota · Wednesday at 10:32 AM

Wally said:
What do you think of people who claim to be his followers and also claim the right to decide who else is a follower. Thats the crux of the issue.

The crux of the issue is...what did Jesus say? I shared exactly what Jesus said. You can either believe it or reject it. I don't care. Just understand that Jesus says he chooses his sheep and his sheep hear his voice. Read all of John 10. Jesus is not being subtle.
With that, I end this conversation.

Nokomis · Wednesday at 12:44 PM

MennoSota said:
The crux of the issue is...what did Jesus say? I shared exactly what Jesus said. You can either believe it or reject it. I don't care. Just understand that Jesus says he chooses his sheep and his sheep hear his voice. Read all of John 10. Jesus is not being subtle.
With that, I end this conversation.

Perhaps it is you who should take a closer look at John 10.

16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Yes, those that believe are saved. But that doesn't necessarily mean those that don't believe are not also saved. One flock, believers and non-believers alike.

Reserve · Wednesday at 12:53 PM

Nokomis said:
Perhaps it is you who should take a closer look at John 10.

16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Yes, those that believe are saved. But that doesn't necessarily mean those that don't believe are not also saved. One flock, believers and non-believers alike.

Jesus is referring to the Gentiles in that passage.

Wally · Wednesday at 12:57 PM

Reserve said:
Jesus is referring to the Gentiles in that passage.

Did I hear a Yah but?

Reserve · Wednesday at 1:02 PM

Wally said:
Did I hear a Yah but?

If that was intended to mock my response: why did you post it?

Wally · Wednesday at 1:20 PM

Reserve said:
If that was intended to mock my response: why did you post it?

What was the point of your comment and how is the fact that they are gentiles relevant?

Nokomis · Wednesday at 1:22 PM

Reserve said:
Jesus is referring to the Gentiles in that passage.

Right.... Not sure what you're point is here. Gentile just means not Jewish, which seems to further my point. I must be missing something.

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

MennoSota · Wednesday at 1:32 PM

Nokomis said:
Perhaps it is you who should take a closer look at John 10.

16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

Yes, those that believe are saved. But that doesn't necessarily mean those that don't believe are not also saved. One flock, believers and non-believers alike.

I highlighted the section that is important.
You are correct, it's not your, nor my responsibility to declare who is and isn't a Christian. That is entirely up to the leader, Christ. I leave it there.

My point is that the National Council of Churches doesn't even believe that Jesus is what he claimed. This is why I consider the NCC a false representative. If they accepted what Jesus says about himself (in the only textual source we have about him), then I would consider their counsel. But, they don't believe what Jesus says about himself, therefore, they represent the beginning of what Jesus states in John 10.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”

My perspective on the NCC is they represent the person who tried to climb in by another way because they deny what Jesus says about himself.

Thanks for your comment. You know my opinion. I am not going to sway anyone here at the GH. We all have our minds made up. I simply wished to clarify. I do appreciate you looking at John 10 and trying to work it out for yourself.

Reserve · Wednesday at 1:54 PM

Wally said:
What was the point of your comment and how is the fact that they are gentiles relevant?

That depends on the context in which Nokomis was referring. Which I will reply to.

Reserve · Wednesday at 1:59 PM

Nokomis said:
Right.... Not sure what you're point is here. Gentile just means not Jewish, which seems to further my point. I must be missing something.

Galatians 3
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

I guess you would need to clarify but it looks like you're referring to a form of universalism. How are the unsaved saved?

Nokomis · Wednesday at 2:14 PM

MennoSota said:
I highlighted the section that is important.
You are correct, it's not your, nor my responsibility to declare who is and isn't a Christian. That is entirely up to the leader, Christ. I leave it there.

My point is that the National Council of Churches doesn't even believe that Jesus is what he claimed. This is why I consider the NCC a false representative. If they accepted what Jesus says about himself (in the only textual source we have about him), then I would consider their counsel. But, they don't believe what Jesus says about himself, therefore, they represent the beginning of what Jesus states in John 10.

“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. 2 But he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 To him the gatekeeper opens. The sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. 5 A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers.”

My perspective on the NCC is they represent the person who tried to climb in by another way because they deny what Jesus says about himself.

Thanks for your comment. You know my opinion. I am not going to sway anyone here at the GH. We all have our minds made up. I simply wished to clarify. I do appreciate you looking at John 10 and trying to work it out for yourself.

What exactly does the NCC deny what Jesus says about himself. ?

Nokomis · Wednesday at 2:21 PM

Reserve said:
I guess you would need to clarify but it looks like you're referring to a form of universalism. How are the unsaved saved?

Sure, you could call it a form of universalism but not extreme or literal universalism. I'm Lutheran so subscribe to the three principles of the Reformation. We are saved through Scripture alone, Faith alone, and Grace alone. Some Lutherans believe that it is a Faith in Jesus. Others believe it is the Faith of Jesus. I'm in the latter group. Does that help clarify?

MennoSota · Wednesday at 2:23 PM

Nokomis said:
What exactly does the NCC deny what Jesus says about himself. ?

They deny that Jesus is God.
Instead they say that Jesus was a prophet, a good man, a man who was in touch with deity. They might even say he was a first created being of God.
The council of churches will say that there are many avatars who offer pathways to God and Jesus is one of those avatars.

Nokomis · Wednesday at 2:32 PM

MennoSota said:
They deny that Jesus is God.
Instead they say that Jesus was a prophet, a good man, a man who was in touch with deity. They might even say he was a first created being of God.
The council of churches will say that there are many avatars who offer pathways to God and Jesus is one of those avatars.

Link?

National Council of Churches

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