National Anthem "Men please remove your hats"

GopherJack

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Honest question here. I never really thought about this til last night as I removed my hat for the National Anthem. So the woman in front of me wearing a Gopher cap is not required to remove her hat, but the men around her are? Can someone explain the history and or reason for this? (I'm sure it goes back many years - maybe nurses wearing caps didn't need to remove them?) Someone please add some clarity as the PA announcer clearly stated "Men please remove your hats".

Thanks, and I'll hang up and listen.
 

Some guy

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The announcer is sexist

End of thread
 

55309DRB

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Drives me crazy that women are not expected to show the same respect. We want equality, take the hats off
 

wdgold

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As a season ticket holder and father of two current Marines it frustrates me when I see men that don't remove their caps
 

Mr. Gopher

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It's all a social construction.

Like sticking up the middle finger and it meaning something negative, or saying "bless you" when someone sneezes and it meaning something positive. Gender (and the ridiculous roles we assign to it) is also a social construction.

Did you go to college?
 

Taji34

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Its just a saying that's persisted since long ago. The reasoning for it being that way is long gone, but no ones bothered to change it. Half the sporting events I go to say the exact same thing.
 

Mr. Gopher

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That's what's fascinating about humans. We are creatures of habit, and many constructs and outdated institutions far outlast their relevancy to modern day society just because we are too afraid to change things.

Why do we still have summers off form school even though it's been proven to be an inefficient model? Because once upon a time 75% of American families were farmers and needed the summers off to work. Today only 2% of American families are farmers, yet we still cling to the old school schedule.

Why does it feel wrong or awkward to shake hands with our left hand? Because back in the day, folks used to use their uncovered left hand to wipe their assholes, leaving the right hand as the only appropriate option to shake with.

Why do are men told to remove their hats in order to show respect? No idea. In some other alternative history, the tradition could be removing one's socks, or women removing a pine branch from their pocket, or everyone flapping their arms like a chicken to show respect.

We're humans.
We invent stupid religions, social constructs, and stupid institutions because we don't understand the world around us.
 

gopherdad

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Its just a saying that's persisted since long ago. The reasoning for it being that way is long gone, but no ones bothered to change it. Half the sporting events I go to say the exact same thing.
Actually, the reason is years of culture. Men have always been asked to remove their hats when entering a home, a church, or the National Anthem. I am not advocating a position, just "tellin it like it is..."

Part of the tradition comes from England, where it was passed on to our military. It was a sign of respect, pretty much all officers were men.

The origins of this tradition happen to be the same as the origins of the tradition of saluting. Knights, wearing helmets that covered their heads, would typically lift their visors to show their faces to their monarchs and others as a sign of friendliness and possibly respect in some cases.
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index...to-take-our-hats-off-for-the-national-anthem/

Part of the tradition came from our church history, where it was culturally normal for women to wear hats, or headcoverings. Mix those two together, and it becomes part of our culture. Just like there are "flag rules" such as not letting it touch the ground, there are rules that show respect. Obviously the flag won't burst into flames if it touches the ground, just as asking men to remove their hats is not sexist.
 

MaxyJR1

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Drives me crazy that women are not expected to show the same respect. We want equality, take the hats off
IMO it has to do with hair, caps vs hats, and part of outfit. Have women ever taken hats off at the Kentucky derby? The answer is somewhere in feminism and tradition.


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gophers&guns

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What peeves me more is when people can't stop walking down the aisle or stop talking for a minute.
 

Ewert86PC

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That's what's fascinating about humans. We are creatures of habit, and many constructs and outdated institutions far outlast their relevancy to modern day society just because we are too afraid to change things.

Why do we still have summers off form school even though it's been proven to be an inefficient model? Because once upon a time 75% of American families were farmers and needed the summers off to work. Today only 2% of American families are farmers, yet we still cling to the old school schedule.

Why does it feel wrong or awkward to shake hands with our left hand? Because back in the day, folks used to use their uncovered left hand to wipe their assholes, leaving the right hand as the only appropriate option to shake with.

Why do are men told to remove their hats in order to show respect? No idea. In some other alternative history, the tradition could be removing one's socks, or women removing a pine branch from their pocket, or everyone flapping their arms like a chicken to show respect.

We're humans.
We invent stupid religions, social constructs, and stupid institutions because we don't understand the world around us.
I am beginning to think the standard greeting in local media circles is to greet each other with their best WWE chairshot to the head.

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mnsportsgeek

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I've always wondered. Are winter hats expected to be removed? I always do it out of not wanting to look like a jerk since I don't know what's expected.
 

Ignatius L Hoops

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I've always wondered. Are winter hats expected to be removed? I always do it out of not wanting to look like a jerk since I don't know what's expected.
I will say that when I attended the Hockey City Classic at TCF Bank Stadium there was no way I was removing my stocking cap, two hoodie hoods, winter coat hood and the scarf wrapped around my neck that bound them all together for the Anthem. Polar Vortex football games? Maybe.
 

Ski U Master

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I couldn't care less hat on or off, means nothing.
 

station19

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Why do young men wear stocking caps indoors, and outside in the summer? Looks totally stupid. not a cool look.

Why do grown men wear baseball caps everywhere?

Fashion has gone to the dogs.
 

tinyarch

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It goes back to our Christian heritage and Bible verses about women wearing head covers.

It's not surprising that this present generation has little clue about historical norms and traditions. Chalk one up for post-modernism.
 

gopher7

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Actually, the reason is years of culture. Men have always been asked to remove their hats when entering a home, a church, or the National Anthem.
This is what I was going to say too. In the small town I was raised in, men were expected to remove their hats in church - women did not have to. It's sort of like a man being expected to hold the door for a lady and things like that.
 

GoUgophers

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It goes back to our Christian heritage and Bible verses about women wearing head covers.

It's not surprising that this present generation has little clue about historical norms and traditions. Chalk one up for post-modernism.
Just because something is considered a "norm" or a "tradition" doesn't mean that is isn't also stupid.

Chalk one up for out of touch old people.

The national anthem has absolutely no business being played at sporting events, anyway. That's probably a better thread topic to discuss.
 

RodentRampage

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Today is different than yesterday, as yesterday was different than what came before it. If you want to shake your fist at the current generation, go right ahead, but fists have been shaken at the current generation for thousands of years.

People aren't familiar with protocols for when hats should be removed for one simple reason - hats have largely fallen out if fashion. They are casual wear rather than formal wear, or an affectation.

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Gopher2017

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I couldn't care less hat on or off, means nothing.
I wholeheartedly agree! Taking a hat off or leaving it on means nothing in terms of one's patriotism. What a silly reason to get upset about when someone doesn't take off their hat.
 

cjbfbp

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It goes back to our Christian heritage and Bible verses about women wearing head covers.

It's not surprising that this present generation has little clue about historical norms and traditions. Chalk one up for post-modernism.
True. When I was a child (many years ago), women usually wore either a hat or, more often, a scarf over their heads in church (I was Catholic) whereas men were expected to remove hats.
 

cjbfbp

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Just because something is considered a "norm" or a "tradition" doesn't mean that is isn't also stupid.

Chalk one up for out of touch old people.

The national anthem has absolutely no business being played at sporting events, anyway. That's probably a better thread topic to discuss.
Tradition really has nothing to do with "smart" or "stupid." It relates to conformity and binding around shared values and rituals. Whether one is willing to conform or not so much driven by intelligence. Chalk up another one for an undereducated youngster.
 

LesBolstad

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That's what's fascinating about humans. We are creatures of habit, and many constructs and outdated institutions far outlast their relevancy to modern day society just because we are too afraid to change things.

Why do we still have summers off form school even though it's been proven to be an inefficient model? Because once upon a time 75% of American families were farmers and needed the summers off to work. Today only 2% of American families are farmers, yet we still cling to the old school schedule.

Why does it feel wrong or awkward to shake hands with our left hand? Because back in the day, folks used to use their uncovered left hand to wipe their assholes, leaving the right hand as the only appropriate option to shake with.

Why do are men told to remove their hats in order to show respect? No idea. In some other alternative history, the tradition could be removing one's socks, or women removing a pine branch from their pocket, or everyone flapping their arms like a chicken to show respect.

We're humans.
We invent stupid religions, social constructs, and stupid institutions because we don't understand the world around us.
I bet you're a real joy to hang out with.
 

wait!what?

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I saw an 80 yr old going down the steps with his hat on during the anthem...if i woulda been any closer to him I woulda ripped it off his bald head.
 

husker70

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Its the way I was brought up. I open and hold doors for women. I differ to women in line, something about ladies first. I always wear a cap, always take it off in a building. I always remove my cap at the playing of The National Anthem. And try this on I always salute the Gophers by removing my cap when the Rouser it Played.
I am just a little different, and I like it that way.
 

Mr. Gopher

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It goes back to our Christian heritage and Bible verses about women wearing head covers.

It's not surprising that this present generation has little clue about historical norms and traditions. Chalk one up for post-modernism.
Our Christian heritage? LOL.

Who are you talking about? Old white people who watch Fox News? Historical norms and traditions? For who? Your own white, Christian heritage that sailed across the Atlantic a couple hundred years go. Not me. Not for the Dakota people. We have been here for thousands of years before you and we show respect in different ways in this place.

Did the thought ever occur to you that your way of behaving and believing is NOT a universal gold standard? You're not allowed to project your own "norms and traditions" on everyone; doesn't work that way, sweetheart!
 

tinyarch

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Our Christian heritage? LOL.

Who are you talking about? Old white people who watch Fox News? Historical norms and traditions? For who? Your own white, Christian heritage that sailed across the Atlantic a couple hundred years go. Not me. Not for the Dakota people. We have been here for thousands of years before you and we show respect in different ways in this place.

Did the thought ever occur to you that your way of behaving and believing is NOT a universal gold standard? You're not allowed to project your own "norms and traditions" on everyone; doesn't work that way, sweetheart!
Whether you like it or not, the Dakota nations are dependent sovereigns under the authority of the U. S. government. This means your nation lost the war and is not the heritage of the United States.
You should also acknowledge that many Dakota peoples willfully followed Christianity when Christian missionaries brought a message of spiritual freedom to the indigenous people's. This, by no means, excuses the atrocities that are well documented, but it does show that not all indigenous people felt their traditional ways were good for them. They willingly converted to Christianity. Give them respect instead of demeaning your brothers and sisters who reject the traditional ways. Give the other indigenous nations respect as they do not believe the Dakota traditional views. Finally, deal with your bitterness and hatred against Christianity by acknowledging you are allowing such bitterness to control you. You will never find peace when you harbor such hatred.

If you don't want to remove you hat in the U.S., stay on the rez.
 
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