My biggest issue with Pitino...

jovs

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
3,430
Reaction score
57
Points
48
Umm undoubtedly a top 4 finish? Interesting considering they were a borderline bubble team before the issues happened and I would not say without a doubt they would finish in the top 4. Clem took over a program that had been 6-12, 6-12, 5-13 3 previous years and also major suspensions yet I lack perspective. Also Clem had coached 6 years winning 20 games twice with two NCAA tournament appearances prior to coming here. What is Pitinos prior accomplishments? Also let’s see what did Clem do in his 6 years umm a sweet 16 and an elite 8. Pitino took over a program that had won an ncaa tournament game. Unreal. Also btw Clem’s .3611 conference winning percentage will still be quite a bit ahead of Pitinos after this year. My expectations are not that lofty I know it is tough to win here. I want a .400 conference winning percentage with an NCAA tournament every other year with 2 NCAA wins in 5 years he is no where close. His results would get most major college coaches fired. They gambled on a young coach and they are losing. I do however think he gets next year but if it is not an NCAA tournament good bye. I look at next year as the ceiling being an NCAA tournament appearance, so I dont share your optimism on the future.
Where does this borderline bubble crap come from, I doubt you even watched them prior to the injuries starting, Mcbrayer, Mason, Coffey and then the Lynch issues kind of derailed things even without the loss of Curry for the season, they were way better than borderline bubble.
 

Keyser Söze

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
1,516
Reaction score
214
Points
63
People keep giving Pitino passes. Mbwake ACL Tear, Nolen broken foot. TUbby didnt tell Royce white to steal a a computer. If those things dont happen you could argue we may have been an elite 8 team. Every team has injuries and what not but the lack of depth Pitino has put on the bench is embarrassing.

I am also struggling to see why people keep giving Jelly and Hurt passes? Neither are helping this team at all.
Remember when Tubby had a winning record in the Big Ten and won Big Ten Coach of The Year? Yeah, me neither.
 

rivergopher

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
501
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Season ticket holder bud. From Selection Sundays Jan 1st as you can see they were #53 RPI so yes bubble team should not have used borderline but they were squarely on the bubble. And the same week Lundardi had them out.



Happy New Year, GHers! This time we'll list the Field of 68 in order of current RPI.

The Gophers (#53) somehow need to get that RPI in the 30s heading into the Big Ten Tournament. I think 11-7 is the number that safely lands them in March Madness, without needing any additional wins in New York City. That starts with beating Illinois and Indiana at Williams Arena this week.

FIELD OF 68 (New Year's Style)
#1 Duke (at-large)
#2 Xavier (Big East automatic)
#3 Oklahoma (Big Xii automatic)
#4 Arkansas (SEC automatic)
#5 North Carolina (ACC automatic)
#6 Arizona State (at-large)
#7 Seton Hall (at-large)
#8 Villanova (at-large)
#9 Texas A&M (at-large)
#10 TCU (at-large)
#11 Syracuse (at-large)
#12 Tennessee (at-large)
#13 Purdue (B1G automatic)
#14 Virginia (at-large)
#15 Clemson (at-large)
#16 Kansas (at-large)
#17 Arizona (at-large)
#18 Kentucky (at-large)
#19 Wichita State (at-large)
#20 Butler (at-large)
#21 Nevada (Mountain West automatic)
#22 Miami (at-large)
#23 Rhode Island (Atlantic 10 automatic)
#24 Missouri (at-large)
#25 Boise State (at-large)
#26 West Virginia (at-large)
#27 Michigan State (at-large)
#28 Saint Bonaventure (at-large)
#29 Auburn (at-large)
#30 Alabama (at-large)
#31 Lipscomb (Atlantic Sun automatic)
#34 Utah (Pac 12 automatic)
#36 Florida State (at-large)
#37 Texas Tech (at-large)
#38 New Mexico State (WAC automatic)
#40 USC (at-large)
#41 UCLA (at-large)
#42 Buffalo (MAC automatic)
#43 Saint Mary's (WCC automatic)
#45 UCSB (Big West automatic)
#46 Houston (American automatic)
#49 Michigan (at-large)
#51 Creighton (at-large)
#52 Washington (at-large)
#53 GOPHERS (at-large)
#54 Cincinnati (at-large)
#58 Georgia (at-large)
#59 Texas (at-large)
#60 SMU (at-large)
#62 Missouri State (Missouri Valley automatic)
#63 William & Mary (Colonial automatic)
#68 Western Kentucky (Conference USA automatic)
#69 Belmont (Ohio Valley automatic)
#70 Vermont (America East automatic)
#73 Gonzaga (at-large)
#80 Furman (Southern automatic)
#83 Louisiana (Sun Belt automatic)
#89 Radford (Big South automatic)
#92 South Dakota (Summit automatic)
#109 Bucknell (Patriot automatic)
#117 Northern Colorado (Big Sky automatic)
#130 Princeton (Ivy automatic)
#146 Wright State (Horizon automatic)
#148 Robert Morris (Northeast automatic)
#166 Prairie View A&M (SWAC automatic)
#180 Southeastern Louisiana (Southland automatic)
#184 North Carolina A&T (MEAC automatic)
#194 Canisius (MAAC automatic)

Where does this borderline bubble crap come from, I doubt you even watched them prior to the injuries starting, Mcbray, Mason, Coffey and then the Lynch issues kind of derailed things even without the loss of Curry for the season, they were way better than borderline bubble.
 

rivergopher

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
501
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Remember when Pitino won an NCAA game yeah me either, remember when Tubby went 2-16 in the big ten yeah me either, remember when Tubby failed to make even the NIT in 3 of 5 years (assuming this continues, theY wont be favored in more than 1 or 2 games). Remember when Tubby was 24 games under .500 in the big ten yeah me either. Tubby was not the answer but was more successful than Pitino.

Remember when Tubby had a winning record in the Big Ten and won Big Ten Coach of The Year? Yeah, me neither.
 

Ewert86PC

Metrodome Era Survivor
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
4,513
Reaction score
28
Points
48
It's not a good job until the University Administration just lets everything be. Anytime any program gets any momentum, something happens. Rather than stick up for their programs, they nail them to the wall. It's the reason no one has won at this university in any major sport in forever.
This.

This is Gopher sports in a nutshell.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

Ewert86PC

Metrodome Era Survivor
Joined
Sep 11, 2010
Messages
4,513
Reaction score
28
Points
48
We have a racist University. It's sad to say that, but it's glaring and obvious when you take time to observe. [emoji22]
This has truth to it, though many will try to argue socio-economic and environmental factors, the EOAA violations cases alone will support it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
7,498
Reaction score
236
Points
63
I agree with that point. I see the same type of misplaced/inflated expectations with Eric Curry (same type of player).

They are 6'8"-9ish", can't shoot, don't have handles and they are not the beastmode inside type of player in the mold of Jordan Murphy. What exactly do they bring to the table?

This is kind of the same issue I have with Michael Hurt. If you can't do multiple things pretty good or better, you'd better be an effective specialist in one area. Hurt was sold to us as a 3 point shooter but he never attempts them (or we don't scheme for him to). What exactly does Fitzgerald bring?
I suggest you cheer for UM (Michigan) they seem like the team you want. Go Blue! [emoji57]
 

Zeppelin Gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
3,164
Reaction score
30
Points
48
Remember when Pitino won an NCAA game yeah me either, remember when Tubby went 2-16 in the big ten yeah me either, remember when Tubby failed to make even the NIT in 3 of 5 years (assuming this continues, theY wont be favored in more than 1 or 2 games). Remember when Tubby was 24 games under .500 in the big ten yeah me either. Tubby was not the answer but was more successful than Pitino.
Haha you revisionist Tubby backers are really something.

Our season last year was more successful than any season Tubby ever had here.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
40,407
Reaction score
1,241
Points
113
This is not a Pitino vs. Tubby debate. Tubby was the right hire at the time. Things nearly worked out great for him here, but unfortunately, injuries/suspensions stopped it from reaching it's full potential and by the end he was in a downward trend and it was time to go.

Pitino was also a fine hire. And things were looking up. But now what was supposed to be his best team has been reduced to rubble, and I don't see a Top 25 caliber team on the horizon. It's not as bad recruiting-wise as it was at the end of Tubby's run, but I'm starting to sense that 16-17 was Pitino's peak. If that's the case, I'd rather not hang on for 2 more season of fringe NCAA/NIT before moving on.
 

Keyser Söze

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
1,516
Reaction score
214
Points
63
Blaming a coach for a disappointing season when he lost 3 of his top 6 players and wanting to fire him a year after winning Big Ten Coach of The Year, is absolutely asinine. Cannot get more stupid than that. It's an emotional, knee-jerk reaction with no logic. Especially when he has a good recruiting class coming in. This year has been frustrating, but the future is still bright.
 

rivergopher

Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
501
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Agreed, but watching the selfishness and effort the last 2 games is very concerning. Sandwiching a coach of the year between two awful seasons will have his seat on fire. Don’t forget coyle didn’t hire him and Kaler was very vocal and public with his displeasure prior to last year.

Blaming a coach for a disappointing season when he lost 3 of his top 6 players and wanting to fire him a year after winning Big Ten Coach of The Year, is absolutely asinine. Cannot get more stupid than that. It's an emotional, knee-jerk reaction with no logic. Especially when he has a good recruiting class coming in. This year has been frustrating, but the future is still bright.
 

bizzle22

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 17, 2016
Messages
1,807
Reaction score
39
Points
48
Pitino's job is safe this year with the caveat of something new being revealed about the Lynch situation. He needs to have a good season next year though. If he doesn't make the tourney next year then I think he should lose his job. One NCAA tourney in 6 years doesn't cut it.

As far as the Tubby conversation goes, I didn't think we should have fired Tubby. But I understand I am in the minority there and it was years ago so there is no need to re-hash that. Pitino is our coach now and the now is what matters
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 12, 2012
Messages
4,369
Reaction score
667
Points
113
Pitino's job is safe this year with the caveat of something new being revealed about the Lynch situation. He needs to have a good season next year though. If he doesn't make the tourney next year then I think he should lose his job. One NCAA tourney in 6 years doesn't cut it.

As far as the Tubby conversation goes, I didn't think we should have fired Tubby. But I understand I am in the minority there and it was years ago so there is no need to re-hash that. Pitino is our coach now and the now is what matters
Moving on from Tubby was the right thing to do. He had hung up his recruiting shoes. Good man by the way. They did not get the guy they wanted by a long shot and face it they are very hard to find. Pitino gets next year for certain unless he is tied to Lynch. I have said it since day one, at this school and in this conference you must be a top 25 defense no matter what, you hang your hat on defense everyday, every possession every game. Even if you let him go you have to know your getting someone special and usually those guys want better jobs.
 

Go Gophs

Active member
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
629
Reaction score
56
Points
28
I don't think firing Pitino even next year would be smart. As long as it's not a complete terrible season, this changing coaches like you change your underwear hasn't taken us anywhere. The guy is young, he has a good name, pedigree and seems to have some passion for recruiting. Tubby was done and on vacation as coach here, that's why he was fired. I agree Pitino needs to turn it around on the court, I would like to see his teams plays better defense and with more fire. But to continually keep firing coaches is not the answer. Look to the top of the University if you want to know why they fail all the time at each major sports program.
 

Bordergopher

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
1,306
Reaction score
165
Points
63
Unless more disaster injuries and suspensions await us next year, we should have a very entertaining squad next year. College basketball is 90% recruiting and 10% coaching. Pitino is showing signs of picking up steam with his recruiting, so I believe it would be fool hearty to fire him. 90% might sound high, but by the time a guy makes it to D1 as a coach, he has already proven he has decent skills in coaching a team. Are there better “game coaches”. Sure, there are. However, the difference is generally not that great from one coach to another. Coaches K, Cali, etc. win primarily because they have great players.

The next few years look bright for this team. The key for next year, however, is finding a very good grad transfer point or combo guard. That is a MUST. I just don’t see a good record next year with IW running the point and Dupree & Harris backing him up. We need a one-year wonder to give IW another year to learn (with lots of minutes). If that happens, we could have a very good team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

gophereric30

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
605
Reaction score
139
Points
43
I agree. Whether people want to fire pitino or not i just think firing him just sets us back four or five more years. We have above average class coming in and they want to play for minnesota, but firing pitino ya just never know what will happen with recruits and dont want to go through alot of turnover with roster. I do believe this program does have momentum going forward. I realize that with our injuries and suspension that this year will not end pretty but dont think firing pitino is answer.
 

Mulligan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
3,159
Reaction score
151
Points
63
He was extended last May. Not sure what that meant for the buyout, but if it didn't affect it, I think it would be between 4 and 5 million minimum. And GH has people actually discussing if he should be fired or not. Simply amazing.
 

Keyser Söze

Well-known member
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
1,516
Reaction score
214
Points
63
He was extended last May. Not sure what that meant for the buyout, but if it didn't affect it, I think it would be between 4 and 5 million minimum. And GH has people actually discussing if he should be fired or not. Simply amazing.
Only the people who ignore logic and let their dramatic emotions do their "thinking" for them.
 

Otis

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
3,303
Reaction score
206
Points
63
Why should he be fired again?
 

gophereric30

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
605
Reaction score
139
Points
43
Why should he be fired again?
Exactly! Maryland's best player got hurt and they have lost by 30 and 21 recently. Lost 3 of 4. Turgeon says they have depth issues and have guys playing that shouldn't be playing. I wonder if their fan base is ripping turgeon for his roster management and wonder now if they think he should be fired? Just goes to show ya everyone else's roster from 10 deep to 15 not very good either.
 

Go Gophs

Active member
Joined
Jan 16, 2009
Messages
629
Reaction score
56
Points
28
Exactly! Maryland's best player got hurt and they have lost by 30 and 21 recently. Lost 3 of 4. Turgeon says they have depth issues and have guys playing that shouldn't be playing. I wonder if their fan base is ripping turgeon for his roster management and wonder now if they think he should be fired? Just goes to show ya everyone else's roster from 10 deep to 15 not very good either.
No, but to be fair Turgeon has been in the dance the last 3 years, been to a sweet sixteen with them, and also has been well over .500 in Big Ten play. He has also been successful for many years at other universities. Richards resume is nowhere near that. I don't think we should fire Pitino by any means, but his resume doesn't stack up anywhere near that of Turgeon.
 

gophereric30

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
605
Reaction score
139
Points
43
No, but to be fair Turgeon has been in the dance the last 3 years, been to a sweet sixteen with them, and also has been well over .500 in Big Ten play. He has also been successful for many years at other universities. Richards resume is nowhere near that. I don't think we should fire Pitino by any means, but his resume doesn't stack up anywhere near that of Turgeon.
You are right. I guess my point is that even a good coach with a good track record goes through what were going through with similar results!
 

IAgopher11

New member
Joined
Sep 30, 2017
Messages
22
Reaction score
0
Points
1
You are right. I guess my point is that even a good coach with a good track record goes through what were going through with similar results!
Well adjusted statement, the other problem using Turgeon is that some of his roster management is losing players to the pro's early instead of being kicked out of school.

With that said, I give Pitino props for last nights win! He found a way to get McB & Mason to stop pouting, and his offense actually looked like they had game planned a little...that's hard for me to say because I don't think he is a very good offensive coach. I couldn't believe how bad Penn State was defending handoffs and ballscreens...they are pathetic, and may cost their coach a job. Their talent is good and young, but they were exposed last night versus a depleted offensive team. I didn't see most of the first half, so it's hard to say if Pitino had that figured out going into the game, BUT the second half they did a great job of exposing this weakness in PSU's defense.

Let's make sure expectations stay realistic! On another thread, Jamir is now the answer...thanks to hitting shots in OT? Loved seeing it and I like how he approaches the game (plays hard, plays with energy, and not afraid to shoot). If he continues with that attitude, he could be a great player off the bench the next couple years. We also looked better because Washington was on the bench! Ball moved better and team took better shots.
 

gophereric30

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
605
Reaction score
139
Points
43
Yes last night Harris gave us hope. He looked good. One of the reasons that 9-9 isn't realistic is that our guys that are inconsistent will continue to be inconsistent. In order for us to win we have to get 60 to 70 out of MMM every night and that just won't happen.
 

Tim1406

Active member
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,183
Reaction score
0
Points
36
Yes last night Harris gave us hope. He looked good. One of the reasons that 9-9 isn't realistic is that our guys that are inconsistent will continue to be inconsistent. In order for us to win we have to get 60 to 70 out of MMM every night and that just won't happen.
With good defense the big ten is a first to 65 conference. We really only need about 50 points form MMM every night. That is almost realistic. The problem comes that I'm not sure this team can play that type of game without renewed effort on defense.
 

gophereric30

Active member
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
605
Reaction score
139
Points
43
With good defense the big ten is a first to 65 conference. We really only need about 50 points form MMM every night. That is almost realistic. The problem comes that I'm not sure this team can play that type of game without renewed effort on defense.
Yes for sure we need to play better defense. That would be a big help. Whether on a given night its first to 65 or first to 80 i still think the burden on the 3 M'S is gonna be tough on them. The good teams will shut 1 or 2 of them down. We need all 3 of them to play great games every night to win and we know it wont be like that every game. Your right though, we will definately have better chance to win in a lower scoring game, but we have too many defensive lapses to keep it low scoring right now.
 
Top Bottom