My biggest issue with Pitino...

Angrygopher1

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Another thing I like about Pitino is his players get better every year. Under Monson and Tubby the players never seemed to improve and so e digressed.
 

bleedgold

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Another thing I like about Pitino is his players get better every year. Under Monson and Tubby the players never seemed to improve and so e digressed.
Ghaston, Bakery, Hurt, squirrel, NONE of these guys ever got better under Pitino. This is a major reason why our bench is so awful this year. No one coming off the bench has gotten better under Pitino.
 

rivergopher

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Umm undoubtedly a top 4 finish? Interesting considering they were a borderline bubble team before the issues happened and I would not say without a doubt they would finish in the top 4. Clem took over a program that had been 6-12, 6-12, 5-13 3 previous years and also major suspensions yet I lack perspective. Also Clem had coached 6 years winning 20 games twice with two NCAA tournament appearances prior to coming here. What is Pitinos prior accomplishments? Also let’s see what did Clem do in his 6 years umm a sweet 16 and an elite 8. Pitino took over a program that had won an ncaa tournament game. Unreal. Also btw Clem’s .3611 conference winning percentage will still be quite a bit ahead of Pitinos after this year. My expectations are not that lofty I know it is tough to win here. I want a .400 conference winning percentage with an NCAA tournament every other year with 2 NCAA wins in 5 years he is no where close. His results would get most major college coaches fired. They gambled on a young coach and they are losing. I do however think he gets next year but if it is not an NCAA tournament good bye. I look at next year as the ceiling being an NCAA tournament appearance, so I dont share your optimism on the future.

You exhibit a glaring lack of perspective. Clem Haskins record after 6 years was 39 -69. He ended with a nearly .500 conference record in his 13 years at Minnesota if you count that 16-2 year (which I do). Since that time, only Monson had one finish as high as fourth. Pitino has done it once and would have undoubtedly done it again this year without the disaster.

The point? Pitino did not take over an easy program to win at. The indicators are that he has the ability to make us competitive year after year going forward if we are patient when times get tough. Get past the short term pain and look at the future. It is bright.
 

bleedgold

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I am by no means saying we shouldve kept Tubby, but lets looks at some of the numbers. After 5 years Tubby will have had More overall wins and more Big10 wins then Pitino. He will also have had more NCAA tourney appearances and more NIT appearances.

No one on here can say injuries are a factor because Tubby had us ranked top 10 when Al Nolen broke his foot and was out for season forcing Blake Hoffarber to play point. A season later in which we also shouldve been a good team, Mbwake tore his ACL and was out for the season.

So the question comes down to what has Pitino done for this program?
 

rivergopher

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Purely based on results very little and the program is at a worse point then when he took over.
 

Frank Grimey Grimes

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My biggest concern if you're gonna fire Pitino is you have to make sure that you get a guy who knows Minnesota.

We are in a a good place to land local talent like Suggs in 2020 and I think Pitino has developed better local relations than Tubby ever did. If you can convince a guy like Peterson to coach, then maybe go for it. But if Coyle replaces Pitino with another east coast guy, I don't see us being better off.

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Gopherbbdude

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He said he was the best player on the team.

He also has a terribly coached offense

and he missed out on all the local talent (McKinley Wright is Colorado's big star) (Davidson is starting for Wisconsin)
...He is a pretty good coach on the Offensive end. He just doesn't have a the players at there proper positions.
 

Gopherbbdude

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I am amazed at some of these posts. last year everyone was on the Pitino band wagon. now that the team has some injuries, a guy that made a stupid mistake.... everyone is out fire Pitino.

here are a few things to ponder
Jarvis Johnson would be a Sr. this year and would be an awesome addition to this group
Fitz....would also be a Sr. with a year of playing under his belt under Pitino
Curry would get major minutes this year
Lynch...well, if he did it he's a DA, if he didn't I feel sorry for him(jury is out in my mind)
Coffee....just a very good player
all these factors are beyond Pitino's control but if reversed could make huge differences

other things in my Head

Hurt is a serviceable player...he is getting better
IW...although his shooting is not good right now, he is playing better now then the beginning of the season
J. Harris......jury is still out, he's a Freshman and it looks like the jump from HS to College was bigger for him then most
BK and GD were hold fillers in Pitino's first year and he desperately needed bigs.
 

rivergopher

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Yep because the gophers are the only teams to have injuries and same with his predecessor (and I do think it was time to move on from Tubby), but yet a guy that has done absolutely nothing keeps getting passes, his seat should be on fire next year.

I am amazed at some of these posts. last year everyone was on the Pitino band wagon. now that the team has some injuries, a guy that made a stupid mistake.... everyone is out fire Pitino.

here are a few things to ponder
Jarvis Johnson would be a Sr. this year and would be an awesome addition to this group
Fitz....would also be a Sr. with a year of playing under his belt under Pitino
Curry would get major minutes this year
Lynch...well, if he did it he's a DA, if he didn't I feel sorry for him(jury is out in my mind)
Coffee....just a very good player
all these factors are beyond Pitino's control but if reversed could make huge differences

other things in my Head

Hurt is a serviceable player...he is getting better
IW...although his shooting is not good right now, he is playing better now then the beginning of the season
J. Harris......jury is still out, he's a Freshman and it looks like the jump from HS to College was bigger for him then most
BK and GD were hold fillers in Pitino's first year and he desperately needed bigs.
 

bleedgold

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People keep giving Pitino passes. Mbwake ACL Tear, Nolen broken foot. TUbby didnt tell Royce white to steal a a computer. If those things dont happen you could argue we may have been an elite 8 team. Every team has injuries and what not but the lack of depth Pitino has put on the bench is embarrassing.

I am also struggling to see why people keep giving Jelly and Hurt passes? Neither are helping this team at all.
 
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I remember when we lost 5 games in a row last year. Could've sworn the majority of people wanted to fire Pitino on the spot.

He's a good coach. Potentially a very good coach. He probably ran the most effective dribble handoff motion offense in college when all the guys were healthy. He's recruited good shooters - Mason, McBrayer, and Coffey all shoot well. The problem is that our offense relied heavily on Coffey to create spacing and pass the ball. It takes more than a week to recover from losing two starters simultaneously. He basically has to formulate and implement a completely different offense and defense with backups and Freshmen trying to get up to speed as quickly as possible.
 

bga1

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Umm undoubtedly a top 4 finish? Interesting considering they were a borderline bubble team before the issues happened and I would not say without a doubt they would finish in the top 4. Clem took over a program that had been 6-12, 6-12, 5-13 3 previous years and also major suspensions yet I lack perspective. Also Clem had coached 6 years winning 20 games twice with two NCAA tournament appearances prior to coming here. What is Pitinos prior accomplishments? Also let’s see what did Clem do in his 6 years umm a sweet 16 and an elite 8. Pitino took over a program that had won an ncaa tournament game. Unreal. Also btw Clem’s .3611 conference winning percentage will still be quite a bit ahead of Pitinos after this year. My expectations are not that lofty I know it is tough to win here. I want a .400 conference winning percentage with an NCAA tournament every other year with 2 NCAA wins in 5 years he is no where close. His results would get most major college coaches fired. They gambled on a young coach and they are losing. I do however think he gets next year but if it is not an NCAA tournament good bye. I look at next year as the ceiling being an NCAA tournament appearance, so I dont share your optimism on the future.
What did Pitino take over? Why did Tubby get fired? Tubby got fired after arguably his best year because the administration could see that the program future was bleak in the years ahead after consecutive years of abysmal recruiting and zippo in the hopper for the next recruiting year (Foster and Ellis). It wasn't that Tubby couldn't coach, it was that he was bringing in players not good enough to coach.Of the last 14 players that Tubby signed- 3 of them had any business every starting in the Big 10. Hollins, Hollins and Walker. That is the remains that Pitino picked up. Then he admittedly made some early mistakes in McNeil, Konate and Gas. Since then his recruiting has been much, much better.

Any talk of abandoning Pitino because in a season that had us pegged to take a DEEP run in the NCAAs went south because of injuried to Curry, Coffey, McBrayer (can't practice and is 15 pounds underweight), Mason (who doesn't appear all the way back from the ankle injury and then the personal issue with Lynch.....is just plain nuts. If Pitino is not at least .500 in the Big Ten next year (Tubby's high water mark) and the prospects don't look good going forward, then by all means the talk of hot seat should begin and I'd right there with you.
 

rivergopher

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What did Pitino take over? Why did Tubby get fired? Tubby got fired after arguably his best year because the administration could see that the program future was bleak in the years ahead after consecutive years of abysmal recruiting and zippo in the hopper for the next recruiting year (Foster and Ellis). Of the last 14 players that Tubby signed- 3 of them had any business every starting in the Big 10. Hollins, Hollins and Walker. That is the remains that Pitino picked up. Then he admittedly made some early mistakes in McNeil, Konate and Gas. Since then his recruiting has been much, much better.

Any talk of abandoning Pitino because in a season that had us pegged to take a DEEP run in the NCAAs went south because of injuried to Curry, Coffey, McBrayer (can't practice and is 15 pounds underweight), Mason (who doesn't appear all the way back from the ankle injury and then the personal issue with Lynch.....is just plain nuts. If Pitino is not at least .500 in the Big Ten next year (Tubby's high water mark) and the prospects don't look good going forward, then by all means the talk of hot seat should begin and I'd right there with you.
I was speaking to comparing the situation that Clem took over to Pitino and then comparing Pitinos accomplishments (really nothing) to Clems (Sweet 16 and elite 8), is lunacy.
 

Cayman

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Yep because the gophers are the only teams to have injuries and same with his predecessor (and I do think it was time to move on from Tubby), but yet a guy that has done absolutely nothing keeps getting passes, his seat should be on fire next year.
Most of the top teams in the Big Ten are not dealing with injury troubles. Maryland is 3-3 and is 2-2 since losing Justin Jackson, the losses being road games against MSU and OSU. Indiana is 4-2 and lost starter De'Ron Davis before playing us, but their other 3 conference wins are against Penn State, Iowa, and Northwestern. Northwestern was without Bryant McIntosh for one game, which they lost 70-55 at home to Nebraska.

As far as I can tell, Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, and Ohio State are not missing anyone.
 

bga1

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I was speaking to comparing the situation that Clem took over to Pitino and then comparing Pitinos accomplishments (really nothing) to Clems (Sweet 16 and elite 8), is lunacy.
Clem took over a far better situation than Pitino. Dutcher handed him a recruiting class of Burton, Newbern and Schick and zero expectations for years to come so that Clem could mold a team patiently. Pitino got handed an older team with not much potential upside and false expectations that he needed to improve on Tubby right away. Clem was a great coach, more mature in the game than Pitino.
Pitino will continue to grow. He is the best recruiter we have had since Dutcher.
 

cjbfbp

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People keep giving Pitino passes. Mbwake ACL Tear, Nolen broken foot. TUbby didnt tell Royce white to steal a a computer. If those things dont happen you could argue we may have been an elite 8 team. Every team has injuries and what not but the lack of depth Pitino has put on the bench is embarrassing.
You and Rivergopher are correct. Pitino shouldn't be getting passes that other coaches wouldn't get. Should he be fired after this year if the team doesn't make some postseason? No, I don't think so but his seat should be hot.

I only moved to this state this century and I didn't become a real Gopher basketball fan until the 2012 season. What inspired me to take a greater level of interest was the postseason run of Tubby's 2012 team. That team had significant injuries yet went all the way to the NIT finals while playing all of its postseason games on the road. That was quite an accomplishment given the roster makeup at the time (of course, Tubby's next and final team wiped out much of that goodwill with pretty disappointing season after starting 15-1). Should a team that has to play Fitzgerald, Hurt, and Konate significant minutes be significantly worse than a team that had to play a RS freshman Elliot, a juco transfer Andre Ingram, and occasionally even RS freshman Otto significant minutes? I'm not sure why it should be. At the very least, the current team's bench big men are significantly more experienced and physically mature than the ones Tubby had that year.

Can this team do something similar to Tubby's 2012 team? Right now it doesn't look like it can but I guess things can change.
 

howeda7

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My biggest concern if you're gonna fire Pitino is you have to make sure that you get a guy who knows Minnesota.

We are in a a good place to land local talent like Suggs in 2020 and I think Pitino has developed better local relations than Tubby ever did. If you can convince a guy like Peterson to coach, then maybe go for it. But if Coyle replaces Pitino with another east coast guy, I don't see us being better off.

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We don't need a "one of us hire" whenever the next coach is hired. This program with new facilities is a good job. Whether it be for someone like Eric Musselman, or plucking someone from a power 5 like Tad Boyle or Tim Miles, etc.
 

howeda7

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Pitino gets a partial pass for the rest of this year, but not a complete one. I realize we won't win many more games, but we should win some. If we win 4 more games and are competitive in most others, that's reasonable. If we continue to get run by 20+ points and finish on a 1-14 stretch, that is not acceptable and his status should be seriously reviewed.
 

cjbfbp

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My biggest concern if you're gonna fire Pitino is you have to make sure that you get a guy who knows Minnesota.

But if Coyle replaces Pitino with another east coast guy, I don't see us being better off.

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Are you saying that an east coast guy is unlikely to be successful in the upper Midwest? I think Philadelphia area born and bred Bo Ryan would disagree with you.
 

Frank Grimey Grimes

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We don't need a "one of us hire" whenever the next coach is hired. This program with new facilities is a good job. Whether it be for someone like Eric Musselman, or plucking someone from a power 5 like Tad Boyle or Tim Miles, etc.
Musselman would be my first choice actually. Impressed with his job at Nevada and he is at least familiar with the area.

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Go Gophs

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Any talk of abandoning Pitino because in a season that had us pegged to take a DEEP run in the NCAAs went south because of injuried to Curry, Coffey, McBrayer (can't practice and is 15 pounds underweight), Mason (who doesn't appear all the way back from the ankle injury and then the personal issue with Lynch.....is just plain nuts. If Pitino is not at least .500 in the Big Ten next year (Tubby's high water mark) and the prospects don't look good going forward, then by all means the talk of hot seat should begin and I'd right there with you.
The thing is, this team didn't beat anyone this year even with their full compliment of guys. They struggled anytime they played any competition, haven't played a lick of defense all year, showed a lack of effort consistently, and now are all but lost. They won't win another game this year if this keeps up.

I wouldn't fire Pitino either yet, but this lack of effort falls on the coach first and seniors second. I will say that Nate Mason should just be benched if he continues to just go through the motions like he has been lately. He doesn't even try on defense and has become even more of a chucker than he was before. Man up or sit down kid. Pitino needs to take a stand against players that give that type of effort. Until he can do that, he will continue to struggle.
 

Go Gophs

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We don't need a "one of us hire" whenever the next coach is hired. This program with new facilities is a good job. Whether it be for someone like Eric Musselman, or plucking someone from a power 5 like Tad Boyle or Tim Miles, etc.
It's not a good job until the University Administration just lets everything be. Anytime any program gets any momentum, something happens. Rather than stick up for their programs, they nail them to the wall. It's the reason no one has won at this university in any major sport in forever.
 

howeda7

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It's not a good job until the University Administration just lets everything be. Anytime any program gets any momentum, something happens. Rather than stick up for their programs, they nail them to the wall. It's the reason no one has won at this university in any major sport in forever.
While I agree with this generally over the last 30 years, I'm not sure what you would have them do differently in the Lynch case. If anything, they're being criticized for letting him play as long as he did. Coyle clearly needs to work on this public speaking and how he presents things, but as for how he's actually handled them, I think it's been reasonable.
 

howeda7

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Musselman would be my first choice actually. Impressed with his job at Nevada and he is at least familiar with the area.

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He would be high on my list. Would the admin be too gun shy because of his dad? You'd hope not. But they wouldn't even let Tubby hire Jimmy Williams as an assistant.
 

MennoSota

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He probably ran the most effective dribble handoff motion offense in college when all the guys were healthy.
Is that the official name for the Globetrotters routine the Gophers run on the point? [emoji57]
 

Angrygopher1

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What did Pitino take over? Why did Tubby get fired? Tubby got fired after arguably his best year because the administration could see that the program future was bleak in the years ahead after consecutive years of abysmal recruiting and zippo in the hopper for the next recruiting year (Foster and Ellis). It wasn't that Tubby couldn't coach, it was that he was bringing in players not good enough to coach.Of the last 14 players that Tubby signed- 3 of them had any business every starting in the Big 10. Hollins, Hollins and Walker. That is the remains that Pitino picked up. Then he admittedly made some early mistakes in McNeil, Konate and Gas. Since then his recruiting has been much, much better.

Any talk of abandoning Pitino because in a season that had us pegged to take a DEEP run in the NCAAs went south because of injuried to Curry, Coffey, McBrayer (can't practice and is 15 pounds underweight), Mason (who doesn't appear all the way back from the ankle injury and then the personal issue with Lynch.....is just plain nuts. If Pitino is not at least .500 in the Big Ten next year (Tubby's high water mark) and the prospects don't look good going forward, then by all means the talk of hot seat should begin and I'd right there with you.
Totally agree!!!!!
 

MennoSota

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It's not a good job until the University Administration just lets everything be. Anytime any program gets any momentum, something happens. Rather than stick up for their programs, they nail them to the wall. It's the reason no one has won at this university in any major sport in forever.
We have a racist University. It's sad to say that, but it's glaring and obvious when you take time to observe. [emoji22]
 

graydon

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Are you saying that an east coast guy is unlikely to be successful in the upper Midwest? I think Philadelphia area born and bred Bo Ryan would disagree with you.
Not really a valid comparison. Before landing the Badger job, Ryan was head coach at Dominican College (Racine, WI) for a year, UW-Platteville for 15 years and UW-Milwaukee for two years. He may have been born and raised on the east coast, but he sure knew the lay of the land recruiting Wisconsin and the upper mid-west.
 

cjbfbp

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Not really a valid comparison. Before landing the Badger job, Ryan was head coach at Dominican College (Racine, WI) for a year, UW-Platteville for 15 years and UW-Milwaukee for two years. He may have been born and raised on the east coast, but he sure knew the lay of the land recruiting Wisconsin and the upper mid-west.
Fair enough, but Ryan wasn't operating in the same recruiting environment at those DIII colleges that he was at Wisconsin and he recruited plenty of players outside of Wisconsin. Besides, the U of M is the only D1 program in the state and it is in the Big Ten conference, a power conference with its own national network. These environmental factors are a significant draw for recruits independent of the coach's geographical origin.

The whole concept of recruits caring that much about where a coach is from is silly anyway. Elite recruits play for coaches who guide programs of stature where they can get good media exposure and hopefully develop as players. The coach's personality likely makes a big difference but whether a coach is liked or not isn't strongly related to his geographical origin.
 
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