MN state rep Nolan West working to propose similar legislation to new California law

die hard gopher

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Thought this deserved its own thread. I don't like the change but since it's inevitable, i'd rather Minnesota get ahead of it.

http://www.startribune.com/new-cali...hletes-to-be-paid-for-endorsements/561828352/

State Rep. Nolan West, R-Blaine, is working on a proposal similar to the bill passed in California. His goal will be to introduce it to the Minnesota House during the next session.

“I think there would be a lot of support,” West said. “This is a quintessential workplace issue of unpaid labor and that kind of ridiculous situation for a lot of these athletes who could get permanent brain damage and never receive a dime of compensation for hundreds and hundreds of hours of work.”

West said Newsom opened the door for other states to have an opportunity to follow their lead, putting some “real pressure” on the NCAA to make changes to their current policies.

If the bill passed in Minnesota, West said it would at least be a year before college athletes in the state could take advantage of the law.

“We are aware of the bill that was signed in California,” Gophers athletic director Mark Coyle said in an e-mail. “We are a legacy member of the Big Ten and will work closely with Commissioner [Jim] Delany, Commissioner [Kevin] Warren and the conference on this matter moving forward.”

Gophers football coach P.J. Fleck said he didn’t know enough specifics on the California bill to comment, though he added, “I think the way college football is, change is inevitable. It’s always evolving.”
 

dpodoll68

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Haha, "unpaid labor." Get real. If you want to have an honest discussion, Nolan, you have to be honest yourself first. P.S. No one is making anyone play college athletics, and in fact most every scholarship recipient fought tooth-and-nail for the privilege of receiving "unpaid labor."
 

Great Plains Gopher

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Completely insane idea that will destroy the NCAA and destroy college football as we have known it. Radicals wanting money (payment) for black players are behind it. The result would be that a handful of big schools with winning records and expensive facilities would haul in the most recruits and all the efforts to level the playing field over the years by the NCAA would be destroyed. Many power five schools would join a super conference and leave the NCAA, so that that exercise in local self-government would collapse. The rich would get richer, the poor would drop football. It is yet another exercise in putting the individual ahead of the community (a favorite theme on the Supreme Court for 40 years or so - the aggrieved individual - like Madalyn O'Hair - is right, the local school boards, counties, states are wrong). This is the MO of the courts as they bash local governments in business, sports, politics, always on behalf of an angry individual or minority group. Because greed is contagious, the only hope is that CA schools bar athletes who get paid for sports. They can then go pro, which is probably where they belong, anyway.
 

Gopherguy0723

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Nolan is a scumbag, but he's right on this. Athletes should not be barred from endorsements or any other way to monetize their image or likeness.
 

ComoGopher

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Nolan is a scumbag, but he's right on this. Athletes should not be barred from endorsements or any other way to monetize their image or likeness.
It got too big for itself. If the NCAA opens a loophole coaches take advantage of it and exploit it to the max. I think the real winners in this are the NBA and the NFL. They have a free minor league. Open up all sports to all ages and let players go pro if they are good enough at whatever age. Other than that, I want college athletics to be student athletes and not paid professionals. I absolutely don't have a problem with some volleyball player getting a few thousand bucks for a local commercial or giving lessons or something but if Jalen Hurts wants a $500,000 deal with some advertiser he should just go pro. It isn't really an equal playing field now so I don't know how much it will matter. I just don't like $500,000 endorsement guy playing against the walk-on.
 

NotAFanOfBecky

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Am I the only one who is concerned that this would lead to huge recuiting advantages for these schools? Unless the NCAA says yes to everyone or no somehow to everyone, there are going to be serious issues and competitive advantages disadvantages.
 

Gopherguy0723

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Am I the only one who is concerned that this would lead to huge recuiting advantages for these schools? Unless the NCAA says yes to everyone or no somehow to everyone, there are going to be serious issues and competitive advantages disadvantages.
The NCAA's hand is being forced. It's an extremely weak association. It will change or cease to exist.
 

rugger14

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It got too big for itself. If the NCAA opens a loophole coaches take advantage of it and exploit it to the max. I think the real winners in this are the NBA and the NFL. They have a free minor league. Open up all sports to all ages and let players go pro if they are good enough at whatever age. Other than that, I want college athletics to be student athletes and not paid professionals. I absolutely don't have a problem with some volleyball player getting a few thousand bucks for a local commercial or giving lessons or something but if Jalen Hurts wants a $500,000 deal with some advertiser he should just go pro. It isn't really an equal playing field now so I don't know how much it will matter. I just don't like $500,000 endorsement guy playing against the walk-on.
That horse left the barn a long time ago. Let the P5 teams make football and basketball semi-pro sports and the rest of the sports can shake themselves out. What would be interesting to me would be the D3 level where if the NCAA loses their teeth, those schools could do what they want to with a few big boosters and just dominate.
 

Section2

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Nolan is a scumbag, but he's right on this. Athletes should not be barred from endorsements or any other way to monetize their image or likeness.
They aren't barred. They are just no longer eligible to compete in the NCAA.

Nolan sounds like he'd be more comfortable on the west coast, see ya.
 

Pete smith

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Haha, "unpaid labor." Get real. If you want to have an honest discussion, Nolan, you have to be honest yourself first. P.S. No one is making anyone play college athletics, and in fact most every scholarship recipient fought tooth-and-nail for the privilege of receiving "unpaid labor."
It is doubtful that Rep. Nolan was an athlete. He forgets, what is the value of a scholarship? $50/60 thousand per year. That to me represents “pay”. Plus what does he purpose for the other sports—- track, swimming, volleyball, etc where the endorsements will be few and far between?
 

upnorthkid

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We should pay high school athletes too who are clearly unpaid labor as well since the local high schools don’t give them a single dime and they all get brain damage. /s

Nolan’s statements are hot garbage
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Haha, "unpaid labor." Get real. If you want to have an honest discussion, Nolan, you have to be honest yourself first. P.S. No one is making anyone play college athletics, and in fact most every scholarship recipient fought tooth-and-nail for the privilege of receiving "unpaid labor."
All jobs in the US are voluntary. What does no one making them play college athletics have to do with it?
 

Bob_Loblaw

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We should pay high school athletes too who are clearly unpaid labor as well since the local high schools don’t give them a single dime and they all get brain damage. /s

Nolan’s statements are hot garbage
If people want to pay them, you don't think they should be allowed? We allow everyone else to monetize their likeness.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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It is doubtful that Rep. Nolan was an athlete. He forgets, what is the value of a scholarship? $50/60 thousand per year. That to me represents “pay”. Plus what does he purpose for the other sports—- track, swimming, volleyball, etc where the endorsements will be few and far between?
I wish we lived within a system where the market could decide.
 

MplsGopher

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Nolan is a scumbag, but he's right on this. Athletes should not be barred from endorsements or any other way to monetize their image or likeness.
Well, yes, but in the OP, he certainly had a poor way of framing that.

His words were speaking to the idea of paying college athletes a salary, instead of a scholarship. Which is a completely, totally different discussion.
 

upnorthkid

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If people want to pay them, you don't think they should be allowed? We allow everyone else to monetize their likeness.
I’m saying don’t call them “labor” for what is a voluntary opportunity. That’s the issue I have with his statement. If you’re calling all athletes laborers, you can’t stop at the high school level
 

MplsGopher

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Here's the thing: let's say the U of Minn had a world-renowned concert pianist going to school here, studying music and on a music scholarship.

Would anyone -- I mean, anyone -- give a crap if this person received additional income in the form of an endorsement deal with the MN Orchestra ??????


Answer: no, they would not.
 
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sbanyai

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how long does it take for Title IX follow suit with equality complaints after this all passes.
 

MplsGopher

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how long does it take for Title IX follow suit with equality complaints after this all passes.
Shouldn't apply, because this money would not be coming from the schools, in any way, shape, or form, so it wouldn't be a case of unfairness or negligence of the school for not "ensuring" that male and female athletes receive equal amounts of endorsement deals.

You can always try something in a court, see if it gets thrown out or whatever. But that would be my lay person's outline of the legal defense for the schools.
 

BeerFueledFF

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Shouldn't apply, because this money would not be coming from the schools, in any way, shape, or form, so it wouldn't be a case of unfairness or negligence of the school for not "ensuring" that male and female athletes receive equal amounts of endorsement deals.

You can always try something in a court, see if it gets thrown out or whatever. But that would be my lay person's outline of the legal defense for the schools.
Yep, the only way Title IX should apply would be if the universities were offering resources to their male athletes to help get marketing deals and not offering those same resources to female athletes. If individuals are just allowed to monetize on their own it should be safe from Title IX issues.
 

Panthadad2

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Here's the thing: let's say the U of Minn had a world-renowned concert pianist going to school here, studying music and on a music scholarship.

Would anyone -- I mean, anyone -- give a crap if this person received additional income in the form of an endorsement deal with the MN Orchestra ??????


Answer: no, they would not.
This thought went round and round in another thread. In music, the product is the actual music (plus public persona too probably). There is no danger in degrading the product with compensation outside of the collegiate experience.

In sports, the product is the competition. Rules to promote that competition (e.g. amateurism in the NCAA with scholarship limits, different divisions I-II-III, NFL salary caps, etc.) are put in place to promote competition. Compensation outside the collegiate experience leads to all sorts of recruiting shenanigans which reduces competition and degrades the product.

That said, this issue of allowing personal licensure in college athletics is probably inevitable. Some thought needs to be given on how to preserve the competitive playing field with it.
 

Livingat45north

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There's no stopping this train. Even though it's just started moving, it'll keep going. A decade from now there will be far fewer college teams as schools won't be able to afford the cost of being competitive with the Alabama's of the world. Minnesota's in a decent position, as we're the only player in a rather large market. The few winners in this deal will be the handful of five star recruits that can get endorsement deals, the many losers will be all the students that will no longer be able to get paid tuition by being on an athletic scholarship -- especially in the non-revenue sports that will have to be dropped. Eventually "college sports" will morph into a semi-pro league, something similar to what's done in Europe. The Minnesota Athletic Department (and every other college as well) will spin out into a for profit entity that becomes a minor league affiliate to the top tier pro leagues (e.g., NFL, MLB, NHL, MLS, etc.). This gets rid of all Title IX requirements, and allows incoming revenue to be spent on that revenue generating team, versus supporting non-revenue sports. It'll still be branded as "Minnesota Gophers" and we'll play teams like the "Michigan Wolverines", but it'll be a very different entity, with far fewer teams in the league(s).
 

MplsGopher

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This thought went round and round in another thread. In music, the product is the actual music (plus public persona too probably). There is no danger in degrading the product with compensation outside of the collegiate experience.

In sports, the product is the competition. Rules to promote that competition (e.g. amateurism in the NCAA with scholarship limits, different divisions I-II-III, NFL salary caps, etc.) are put in place to promote competition. Compensation outside the collegiate experience leads to all sorts of recruiting shenanigans which reduces competition and degrades the product.

That said, this issue of allowing personal licensure in college athletics is probably inevitable. Some thought needs to be given on how to preserve the competitive playing field with it.
With that logic, I should be able to argue that the NCAA should enforce rules that force every school to only be able to pay coaching staff equal amounts of money, have completely equal budgets, equal facilities, and equal crowds.

Because those thins all "unfairly" influence competition, and therefore harm the product.


That said, I support the gist of what you're getting at. I think the NFL is a superior product because of the salary cap, and therefore creating an environment of parity ... on the field.

To some extend, having the same in major college football is also a good thing. But already, major college football lags far behind the NFL in this regard. There is no P5 draft, the top schools almost always get the top recruits, can spend more than other schools to hire the best coaches, have elite facilities that other schools can't match, have gameday atmospheres that other schools can't match, and so on.
 
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MplsGopher

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There's no stopping this train. Even though it's just started moving, it'll keep going. A decade from now there will be far fewer college teams as schools won't be able to afford the cost of being competitive with the Alabama's of the world. Minnesota's in a decent position, as we're the only player in a rather large market. The few winners in this deal will be the handful of five star recruits that can get endorsement deals, the many losers will be all the students that will no longer be able to get paid tuition by being on an athletic scholarship -- especially in the non-revenue sports that will have to be dropped. Eventually "college sports" will morph into a semi-pro league, something similar to what's done in Europe. The Minnesota Athletic Department (and every other college as well) will spin out into a for profit entity that becomes a minor league affiliate to the top tier pro leagues (e.g., NFL, MLB, NHL, MLS, etc.). This gets rid of all Title IX requirements, and allows incoming revenue to be spent on that revenue generating team, versus supporting non-revenue sports. It'll still be branded as "Minnesota Gophers" and we'll play teams like the "Michigan Wolverines", but it'll be a very different entity, with far fewer teams in the league(s).
Just let the top 25 or top 32 or whatever, the elite of the elite college football programs, break off. Just like in Minnesota high school, they created class 6A. Sorry, but Coon Rapids will never, ever be able to compete with Wayzata.

We're all fans of Gopher football, but none of use can envision it ever being on the level of Alabama, Ohio State.

Wouldn't it really be better for us to be national champions of a division with more like programs?
 

upnorthkid

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With that logic, I should be able to argue that the NCAA should enforce rules that force every school to only be able to pay coaching staff equal amounts of money, have completely equal budgets, equal facilities, and equal crowds.

Because those thins all "unfairly" influence competition, and therefore harm the product.


That said, I support the gist of what you're getting at. I think the NFL is a superior product because of the salary cap, and therefore creating an environment of parity ... on the field.

To some extend, having the same in major college football is also a good thing. But already, major college football lags far behind the NFL in this regard. There is no P5 draft, the top schools almost always get the top recruits, can spend more than other schools to hire the best coaches, have elite facilities that other schools can't match, have gameday atmospheres that other schools can't match, and so on.
Well NFL coaches can make whatever salary, as can college coaches. The salary cap is actually more in environment of parity in college in that every single player gets the same amount of dollars. The NFL allows for paying of certain players more, which is less in line with parity. The facilities can be bonkers in the NFL and lackluster just the same (just ask people the thoughts of the Vikings old preseason facility vs the new one). Now if you're saying that NCAA teams are paying under the table (which I agree they likely are) then obviously you can make that argument. I'm just saying at face value you can't say the NFL is better due to the fact that the players have a salary cap because so do the players in the NCAA (85 scholarships x the allotted amount from the school)
 

Panthadad2

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Just let the top 25 or top 32 or whatever, the elite of the elite college football programs, break off. Just like in Minnesota high school, they created class 6A. Sorry, but Coon Rapids will never, ever be able to compete with Wayzata.

We're all fans of Gopher football, but none of use can envision it ever being on the level of Alabama, Ohio State.

Wouldn't it really be better for us to be national champions of a division with more like programs?
Are you implying that the lower divisions would somehow limit player licensure money? Doesn't that go against the grain of this whole concept...and maybe the new future law?
 

MplsGopher

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Are you implying that the lower divisions would somehow limit player licensure money? Doesn't that go against the grain of this whole concept...and maybe the new future law?
No I'm not implying that.

That post you quoted is a much more general statement, getting to the idea of being able to compete with the elite of the elite.
 

MplsGopher

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Well NFL coaches can make whatever salary, as can college coaches. The salary cap is actually more in environment of parity in college in that every single player gets the same amount of dollars. The NFL allows for paying of certain players more, which is less in line with parity. The facilities can be bonkers in the NFL and lackluster just the same (just ask people the thoughts of the Vikings old preseason facility vs the new one). Now if you're saying that NCAA teams are paying under the table (which I agree they likely are) then obviously you can make that argument. I'm just saying at face value you can't say the NFL is better due to the fact that the players have a salary cap because so do the players in the NCAA (85 scholarships x the allotted amount from the school)
Apologize for my poor wording.

Let me rephrase: I think the NFL is a better product using a salary cap, than what it would be if it didn't use one.


You make great points in your post about parity in major college football, in that respect. But the huge thing is, there is no P5 draft for 4/5 star players. If we had that, nationally, then we'd have NFL levels of parity. But that will never happen, because Texas and the deep south schools would never agree to it.
 

4four4

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The unpaid labor comments are disingenuous but I agree student athletes should be able to receive money for their name and likeness.
 

GophersInIowa

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My concern is this will just create a bigger gap between the elite programs and everyone else. You're not going to have as many boosters who are willing to pay $1000 for an autograph at places like Minnesota, Iowa St, Boise St, and Syracuse. Do the Gophers land a guy like Bateman under this set up when he probably makes a lot more money at a place like Georgia?
 
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