Michigan State helmets

denguegopher

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What do you think of Michigan State using those padded helmets in their spring game? If it helps I'm for it. Cornell actually used helmets like that in games at the time of Ed Marino. Not easy to see but the top of the helmet has a layer of padding. 1619291321000.png
 
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Full Speed Ahead

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I've always thought padding the outside would make a big difference in concussion impacts. I tried pulling a patent on the idea, but it was long since taken.
 

paulser21

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I've always thought padding the outside would make a big difference in concussion impacts. I tried pulling a patent on the idea, but it was long since taken.
I remember several nfl players wearing a padded shell in the 90s.
 

btowngopher

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This is one area that the technology sure seems like we could do better...
Yeah I’m surprised there hasn’t been more innovation, or I may just be unaware of it.
 

gophernut1

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The extra padding on the helmets is a nice move to try and make people think Michigan State cares about its athletes. Still, doesn't take away the stink of having a school that allowed years of abuse to take place under its watch.
 

mnsportsgeek

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More padding probably does help deaden a blow a bit. If you're jumping out of a burning house, jumping on to a mattress is going to absorb a lot more of the force than jumping on to the pavement.

The question is how much padding does it take to absorb the force of an impact to the head and keep your brain from fumbling around inside your skull. It's probably a lot more than an extra inch of foam. I'd be curious to see what the studies into this say, but I'd be surprised if these helmets provide much benefit at all.
 

HoustonTXGopher

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I was always under the impression that helmets are designed as they are to create glancing blows on helmet to helmet hits, which makes some sense. The amount of padding on the inside must be improved and the outer shell needs to be less hard but still designed to skip/slide off another helmet. I wonder if the outside padding actually holds the impact longer, making for actual longer moment of impact? Either way, its a brutal and violent sport, nut we all love it.
 

Some guy

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If you wear a helmet pad not approved by the helmet manufacturer you void the helmet manufacturer of any liability of the helmet failing to do its job.

What I’m saying is, if you’re coaching a 7th grade team this fall, don’t buy these for your team unless the helmet manufacturer approves
 

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Even a helmet made from vibranium won't stop this...
View attachment 12659
It won't ever stop it completely, but if you can lengthen the amount of time for the stopping of the skull, you will reduce the force on the skull. Impulse = Force x time
Impulse also equals change in momentum which is mass x change in velocity. No matter what you do the change in velocity will be the same (coming to a stop), but if you can increase the time it takes to cause the velocity to reach zero, the force on the skull will be less. This is the idea behind airbags or how if someone tossed an egg to you, you would catch it by lengthening the catch time. Increasing the time to stop reduces the force on the egg and the egg doesn't break because you've reduced the force to a point that the shell can withstand it.
This is a nice video that explains the concept (at the 7 minute mark it gets into how this factors into safety considerations):

And thus concludes today's physics lesson.
 

upnorthkid

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It won't ever stop it completely, but if you can lengthen the amount of time for the stopping of the skull, you will reduce the force on the skull. Impulse = Force x time
Impulse also equals change in momentum which is mass x change in velocity. No matter what you do the change in velocity will be the same (coming to a stop), but if you can increase the time it takes to cause the velocity to reach zero, the force on the skull will be less. This is the idea behind airbags or how if someone tossed an egg to you, you would catch it by lengthening the catch time. Increasing the time to stop reduces the force on the egg and the egg doesn't break because you've reduced the force to a point that the shell can withstand it.
This is a nice video that explains the concept (at the 7 minute mark it gets into how this factors into safety considerations):

And thus concludes today's physics lesson.
the issue with that point is this requires the assumption that the force that hits the external surface is what matters. it's moreso about the ability to slow the time to stop of an object inside the shell (ie the yolk) than it is to protect the shell, which is exceedingly hard to do and something that just adding padding to the outside. this kind of stuff has been around for decades. unless you can create a mechanism in which the body and the head both can be slowed gradually or you eliminate shoulder hitting/spearing and move more toward rugby style tackling (ie head up, wrapping up), you won't see a tangible lowering in concussions because inside the shell the brain will continue to move at the same speed it was before unless you slow the overall tackle (ie make the players slower or change the form of tackling that's currently being done).
 

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the issue with that point is this requires the assumption that the force that hits the external surface is what matters. it's moreso about the ability to slow the time to stop of an object inside the shell (ie the yolk) than it is to protect the shell, which is exceedingly hard to do and something that just adding padding to the outside. this kind of stuff has been around for decades. unless you can create a mechanism in which the body and the head both can be slowed gradually or you eliminate shoulder hitting/spearing and move more toward rugby style tackling (ie head up, wrapping up), you won't see a tangible lowering in concussions because inside the shell the brain will continue to move at the same speed it was before unless you slow the overall tackle (ie make the players slower or change the form of tackling that's currently being done).
The same physics apply to the yolk as the shell. I'm not saying it's an easy solution and I'm sure people that understand the physics are working on it, but I'm convinced we can do better.
 

BigGopher69

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I think he's assuming it would be like rugby and people would run and hit differently.
are they going to ban blocking, the forward pass, and stop breaks in between plays too. Taking away helmets is a ridiculous take for football
 

UpAndUnder43

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Many believe you are correct. They’d tackle differently without a helmet. The weight of the helmet also takes acclimating.
Not a perfect solution but would help with concussions. I’m sure other issues would arise.
 

BigGopher69

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No one is going to tackle stupid without a helmet.
have you played football? it is impossible to tackle with perfect form keeping your head out of the tackle every time, also how are lineman suppose to block and get off the ball ,they always bang heads. There are so many issues taking helmets away would cause way more problems
 

alchemy2u

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It won't ever stop it completely, but if you can lengthen the amount of time for the stopping of the skull, you will reduce the force on the skull. Impulse = Force x time
Impulse also equals change in momentum which is mass x change in velocity. No matter what you do the change in velocity will be the same (coming to a stop), but if you can increase the time it takes to cause the velocity to reach zero, the force on the skull will be less. This is the idea behind airbags or how if someone tossed an egg to you, you would catch it by lengthening the catch time. Increasing the time to stop reduces the force on the egg and the egg doesn't break because you've reduced the force to a point that the shell can withstand it.
This is a nice video that explains the concept (at the 7 minute mark it gets into how this factors into safety considerations):

And thus concludes today's physics lesson.
The increased time of deceleration comes from an increased distance of deceleration. The air bag begins to decelerate the drivers head about a foot before it hits the steering wheel. That is what gives the greater time and less force. This is impossible to duplicate in football where only very minor changes can be made in the distance and time of the collisions.
 

GopherPoke

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I've always wondered why players now are able to simply slide their helmet on and off by the facemask with zero effort. Seems to me a loose helmet leads to less protection. I could be wrong. Our helmets always ripped the ears off as you removed the dang things.
 

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I've always wondered why players now are able to simply slide their helmet on and off by the facemask with zero effort. Seems to me a loose helmet leads to less protection. I could be wrong. Our helmets always ripped the ears off as you removed the dang things.
I played 4th - 7th grade. Came home with a headache from every practice because the helmet was so tight.
 
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