Meyer hires Doyle as Strength Coach

MplsGopher

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Keep in mind you also have a new coach trying to build rapport and trust with his players. If players don't trust Doyle it's not a good fit. Meyer had to have known some players would have concerns.
I think this is exactly what happened.

He was acting like a college coach. "What I say is the law". That's not what an NFL head coach is. If you lose your players, you're cooked.
 

coolhandgopher

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The tone-deafness of this hire by Meyer (and the Jaguars) is jaw dropping. With nearly 40 alums on NFL rosters (including Greg Mabin on Jacksonville's roster), he didn't think that this would cause negative buzz and reaction among the players? Perhaps a phone call with Mabin took place in Meyer's "very thorough vetting process" (his words), but Mabin tweeted back in July how he hoped bringing these issues to light could stimulate positive change. The hire shrieks arrogance, which of course coming from Meyer, isn't surprising. Even with Doyle jettisoned, I have to think it's a pretty negative first impression with his team.
 

#2Gopher

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I think this is exactly what happened.

He was acting like a college coach. "What I say is the law". That's not what an NFL head coach is. If you lose your players, you're cooked.
I would think he is cooked going back to the college ranks now. All the sports newscast literally blasted him when he signed on to the Panthers.
 

coolhandgopher

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I would think he is cooked going back to the college ranks now. All the sports newscast literally blasted him when he signed on to the Panthers.
Dave Bliss continued to find coaching jobs (albeit in minor league pro basketball and high school levels) after he suggested to frame Patrick Dennehy as a drug dealer following his murder by teammate Carlton Dotson. Doyle will find other jobs, but certainly not at the NFL or high level college football level, at least for quite some time.
 

Pompous Elitist

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rs
Maybe that is happening, but I don't see being sensitive to individual players and still having high standards that require considerable effort on the part of the players as being mutually exclusive. I think Kill struck a pretty good balance in that regard.
Fair enough, but we’re talking about whether the Iowa system is inherently racist, insensitive, both,neither, or something else. I don’t think saying it is necessarily means it is. There is room for interpretations filtered through POVs, perhaps, rather than malicious intent.
 

Pompous Elitist

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No, be less demeaning to the players.

A classic example of this is comparing PJ to Frost. Both are very demanding of their players. One does it with positive encouragement and the other goes with old school ridicule and humiliation. Which one do you think builds better character in their players?
I’m a little confused by what you’re trying to say. Ferentz has had generally pretty good teams punching well above their weight. Frost has been performing poorly, sure. How did Frost enter the discussion? I thought we were discussing the Iowa Way and Iowa? If Ferentz and his staff are demeaning then under your hypothesis above Iowa would also stink on the field? Has that happened?
 

50PoundHead

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Fair enough, but we’re talking about whether the Iowa system is inherently racist, insensitive, both,neither, or something else. I don’t think saying it is necessarily means it is. There is room for interpretations filtered through POVs, perhaps, rather than malicious intent.
I'm not talking about that and that's not what I'm getting from this thread. The focus has been on Doyle. Anyone going further in either direction is pushing an agenda.

Doyle uttered a bevy of racially insensitive comments to players. Ferentz, Jr., appears to be a tool. I don't think that makes the entire Iowa program a racist entity. If Ferentz, Sr., was aware of the entirety of Doyle's behavior, I think a case can be made he should have stepped in and cleaned it up. I think it's clear to say that Doyle's approach was old school and he never realized a need to change. Let me make it clear, I don't think his old school approach was right, but my guess he wasn't alone in the coaching fraternity nationwide to use racially insensitive language trying to motivate certain players. I think it's a really odd (and cruel) motivational tool, but I'm sure there are some who think it works.
 

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Just think only 17 players complained, nobody heard from the other 200+ black players who were involved in Doyle’s 20+ years. I wonder why?
 

die hard gopher

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No, be less demeaning to the players.

A classic example of this is comparing PJ to Frost. Both are very demanding of their players. One does it with positive encouragement and the other goes with old school ridicule and humiliation. Which one do you think builds better character in their players?
What evidence do we have that Frost uses “old school ridicule and humiliation” towards his players? Because of his hoodie comments?

Personally I’ve never understood why gopher fans have so much disdain for Frost.
 

die hard gopher

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Just think only 17 players complained, nobody heard from the other 200+ black players who were involved in Doyle’s 20+ years. I wonder why?
Not saying there complaints do or don’t have merit but most the the guys that did complain, or made news for complaining, were the more prominent NFL alums like Akrum Wadley, Jaleel Johnson, James Daniels etc. So maybe only the prominent NFL black players felt it was worthwhile to speak up because maybe they felt only their voices would be heard or taken seriously.
 

Pompous Elitist

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Not saying there complaints do or don’t have merit but most the the guys that did complain, or made news for complaining, were the more prominent NFL alums like Akrum Wadley, Jaleel Johnson, James Daniels etc. So maybe only the prominent NFL black players felt it was worthwhile to speak up because maybe they felt only their voices would be heard or taken seriously.
Akrum Wadley allegedly stiffed Iowa fans out of autographed merchandise. The tweets were on social media - I have no idea if true but if true I’d take his comments with a grain of salt, particularly when once again some Iowa fans also tweeted Wadley allegedly wanted the Iowa staff to recruit his little brother. He went undrafted and never played a game. Questionable character? Motivations?

Are there lawyers involved? Regarding Doyle, Ferentz 1 and 2, the athletic department and school. There are some potential implicit implications if that’s the case.
 

Pompous Elitist

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I'm not talking about that and that's not what I'm getting from this thread. The focus has been on Doyle. Anyone going further in either direction is pushing an agenda.

Doyle uttered a bevy of racially insensitive comments to players. Ferentz, Jr., appears to be a tool. I don't think that makes the entire Iowa program a racist entity. If Ferentz, Sr., was aware of the entirety of Doyle's behavior, I think a case can be made he should have stepped in and cleaned it up. I think it's clear to say that Doyle's approach was old school and he never realized a need to change. Let me make it clear, I don't think his old school approach was right, but my guess he wasn't alone in the coaching fraternity nationwide to use racially insensitive language trying to motivate certain players. I think it's a really odd (and cruel) motivational tool, but I'm sure there are some who think it works.
I agree Doyle allegedly said some pretty stupid things. There is no need to behave like that and respect is always paramount, when earned.
 

WriterGoph

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Just think only 17 players complained, nobody heard from the other 200+ black players who were involved in Doyle’s 20+ years. I wonder why?
Only 17?! You have to be shitting me. 1 is too many. Do you know notice how at most other programs this hasnt even happened once? 17 guys concur at Iowa and you are questioning if that's enough to validate?

You probably thought all the Harvey Weinstein stuff was just coincidence too.

Man, something is seriously wrong with a few of the people on this board (which is sadly just a microcosm of society). Christ.
 

#2Gopher

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I would think with the transfer rules loosening up, players are just going to leave in the future. They don't want to come across as a complainer when looking for a new school even though it shouldn't be this way.
 

MplsGopher

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Just think only 17 players complained, nobody heard from the other 200+ black players who were involved in Doyle’s 20+ years. I wonder why?
Because not all people feel the need, or have the ability (in the sense of where they're at with what happened to them, mentally and emotionally), to publicly speak out?

That doesn't prove that they weren't treated just as poorly by Doyle.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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I would think with the transfer rules loosening up, players are just going to leave in the future. They don't want to come across as a complainer when looking for a new school even though it shouldn't be this way.
I would HOPE so but it's hard to know what their situation is.

I mean we had the horrific Nassar situation at Michigan State... people didn't leave in droves...

People don't always do what you might think.
 

MNVCGUY

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I would HOPE so but it's hard to know what their situation is.

I mean we had the horrific Nassar situation at Michigan State... people didn't leave in droves...

People don't always do what you might think.
There is always the flip side to the transfer thing that fans seem to forget. Just because a player may want to leave doesn't mean they would be guaranteed to find a team willing to take them. Seeing that play out in football right now with a ton of names in the transfer portal with no new destination at this point.
 

MplsGopher

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There is always the flip side to the transfer thing that fans seem to forget. Just because a player may want to leave doesn't mean they would be guaranteed to find a team willing to take them. Seeing that play out in football right now with a ton of names in the transfer portal with no new destination at this point.
And it's not supposed to happen ... but with the way that major coaches are a "fraternity", it wouldn't surprise me if coaches reach out to a coach to "ask about" such and such a player, what he was like, etc. before letting that player know if there is an open spot for him.

Again it's not "supposed" to work like that. I believe coaches aren't even supposed to know who is in the portal. But a player isn't just going pick a school and transfer there, without know if there is a spot on the team or if the team even wants them.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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There is always the flip side to the transfer thing that fans seem to forget. Just because a player may want to leave doesn't mean they would be guaranteed to find a team willing to take them. Seeing that play out in football right now with a ton of names in the transfer portal with no new destination at this point.
Yeah you don't know what the asshole coach might say too.

Your dream was to play P5.... do you want to transfer out to McNeese State?
 
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