Meyer hires Doyle as Strength Coach

#2Gopher

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Well that was an interesting turn of events. I guess second chances only apply to some people and not others in this world. Zero chance this happened as a mere reconsideration of things; the woke and PC mob clearly leaped into action with a social media barrage and attack to prevent this guy from gainful employment.

Doyle's probably a colossal tool, but if we're going to start saying zero 2nd chances for anyone, I kinda see a double standard/hypocrisy issue forming very, very fast.. Only a certain group gets to determine who gets second chances perhaps
He never apologized for his behavior and actions. Why would he deserve a 2nd chance?
 

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Well that was an interesting turn of events. I guess second chances only apply to some people and not others in this world. Zero chance this happened as a mere reconsideration of things; the woke and PC mob clearly leaped into action with a social media barrage and attack to prevent this guy from gainful employment.

Doyle's probably a colossal tool, but if we're going to start saying zero 2nd chances for anyone, I kinda see a double standard/hypocrisy issue forming very, very fast.. Only a certain group gets to determine who gets second chances perhaps
I don't think anyone said zero 2nd chances. See MNVCGUY's post above. When someone has any sort of transgression usually they have to show they have changed by working their way back up, not by getting a promotion.
 

50PoundHead

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So, what is the way back for convicted racists (and alleged racists - from a certain POV). Are they allowed to rejoin society at some point, post mea culpa?

Is there a mechanism for forgiveness? Serious question. Does it depend on the degree of infraction? Doyle acted stupidly but does that garner him a lifetime employment ban? What if he apologizes and cleans up his act?

That's a very good question and believe me, I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt provided there is some measure of contrition.

I have to remind people on the various boards I frequent that I am in my late-60s and the whole cancel culture thing has turned around in my lifetime. When I was young, anti-communism was a big thing and people's careers were ruined often because they had simply attended a meeting in their youth or young adulthood during the 1930s at the height of the Great Depression and were wondering if the world would ever turn around and then were ratted on post-WW II. Now, let me make it clear, I am not a Communist. Horrid system that ground up countries and heartlessly devoured the lives of many. Aleger Hiss and the Rosenburgs were guilty. My point is political correctness has always been around, it's just different people swinging the hammer.

As for Doyle, he obviously knows a lot about strength and conditioning, I think my earlier post stands up to the extent that in college, the players are somewhat captive to the coaching staff or at least they are captive to the coaching staff to a much greater degree than they are at the pro level. I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of Jaguar players became aware of the complaints against Doyle by the Iowa players and let their feelings be known. Either that, or Meyer was unaware of the whole kerfuffle or how bad the optics might be.
 
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Plausible Deniability

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He never apologized for his behavior and actions. Why would he deserve a 2nd chance?
What actions precisely are you speaking of? Allegations or proven missteps?

Again, Doyle is pretty clearly a tool, but we're getting in very dangerous territory here. Be careful what you wish for. We have literally recently had players in the NFL who have killed people and/or beaten their wives on multiple occasions. And they suited up on Sunday.
 

#2Gopher

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What actions precisely are you speaking of? Allegations or proven missteps?

Again, Doyle is pretty clearly a tool, but we're getting in very dangerous territory here. Be careful what you wish for. We have literally recently had players in the NFL who have killed people and/or beaten their wives on multiple occasions. And they suited up on Sunday.
He has clearly denied any wrong doing. As to your other comments, yes the majority of professional sports have thugs on them. Its wrong. They shouldn't be allowed to play until they take necessary steps otherwise.
 

#2Gopher

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Our moral standards of mocking people, lying, making false statements, beating people up have clearly eroded.
 

50PoundHead

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What actions precisely are you speaking of? Allegations or proven missteps?

Again, Doyle is pretty clearly a tool, but we're getting in very dangerous territory here. Be careful what you wish for. We have literally recently had players in the NFL who have killed people and/or beaten their wives on multiple occasions. And they suited up on Sunday.

There is clearly a double standard, but the fans are paying to see the players--some of whom commit reprehensible behavior with troubling frequency--and not the coach. I agree that the extent to which some players get away with crap is troubling.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Well that was an interesting turn of events. I guess second chances only apply to some people and not others in this world. Zero chance this happened as a mere reconsideration of things; the woke and PC mob clearly leaped into action with a social media barrage and attack to prevent this guy from gainful employment.

Doyle's probably a colossal tool, but if we're going to start saying zero 2nd chances for anyone, I kinda see a double standard/hypocrisy issue forming very, very fast.. Only a certain group gets to determine who gets second chances perhaps
Who makes the choice on 'second chances', Urban? Is he likely to have problems with this guy even if there are issues?

Do we make those calls? We don't have to work with him...

If some players objected and didn't want to work with him... there you go.


'Second chances' is easy to say when it has nothing to do with you.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Keep in mind you also have a new coach trying to build rapport and trust with his players. If players don't trust Doyle it's not a good fit. Meyer had to have known some players would have concerns.
I think hiring the guy indicates maybe Urban didn't realize it.
 

Plausible Deniability

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There is clearly a double standard, but the fans are paying to see the players--some of whom commit reprehensible behavior with troubling frequency--and not the coach. I agree that the extent to which some players get away with crap is troubling.
It's dangerous territory to go simply with the standard of "what the players are comfortable with". I'm all about empowering the players, I thought it was fantastic when a number of the B1G players stood up and said they wanted to play (funny how some people didn't think it was good to empower them for THAT....). But what if a handful of players allegedly sexually assaulted one or a couple of female students and the players stood up and said they wanted the players on the team, they "weren't comfortable with" not allowing them to play, etc.?

I don't know what the right answer is in this case, I'm just saying we are getting into very dangerous territory here.
 

EG#9

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I'd argue that this would have been more than Doyle's second chance. The allegations at Iowa were not a one time thing or even a one class thing, it seemed like a consistent pattern of behavior over a number of years. Also the Rhabdo thing would have had him (and Ferentz) fired at Minnesota and many other schools. The fact that he's incredibly talented at what he does put him in the position to remain at Iowa and become (at least at one time) the highest paid strength coach in the nation and then have Urban try to hire him in Jacksonville. We often see talent provide second (third and fourth) chances in sports that don't necessarily happen in some other fields.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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I'd argue that this would have been more than Doyle's second chance. The allegations at Iowa were not a one time thing or even a one class thing, it seemed like a consistent pattern of behavior over a number of years. Also the Rhabdo thing would have had him (and Ferentz) fired at Minnesota and many other schools. The fact that he's incredibly talented at what he does put him in the position to remain at Iowa and become (at least at one time) the highest paid strength coach in the nation and then have Urban try to hire him in Jacksonville. We often see talent provide second (third and fourth) chances in sports that don't necessarily happen in some other fields.

Also "second chance" = job in NFL. That doesn't seem to jive to me ...

I haven't even fucked up like that dude and I'd like that 'second chance'...
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Sooooooo, just out of curiosity, if this has been an ongoing thing, like years and years and years, why did this just come out in 2020? Seems kinda odd
Seems kinda odd we only heard about the horrors at Penn State after decades.... Michigan State... etc....were those "odd"?

Bad stuff happens and people keep quiet.
 

WriterGoph

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Sooooooo, just out of curiosity, if this has been an ongoing thing, like years and years and years, why did this just come out in 2020? Seems kinda odd

What kind of baiting are you doing here? Just say what you really wanna say.

Obviously 2020 was a year where a long overdue racial equality conversation exploded to the surface after the George Floyd murder. It's pretty clear you have a problem with the multitudes of black athletes who felt emboldened in the moment and spoke up against the machine. I guess since they didn't want to risk their scholarship/job/life to say something right when it happened, they should just swallow it and be happy with their good fortunes, yeah? Kinda like sexual assault or sexual abuse, if a victim didn't say something right at the moment of the crime, we should obviously really be questioning their stories and/or motives.

People have been empowered by strength in numbers for centuries. Sorry that this movement has been inconvenient or annoying for you. It's too bad those darn blacks couldn't have figured out how to do better.

GTFO. 🤮
 

Cedar Rapids Gopher

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I think race became a bigger issue in 2020. Good or bad. I believe that allowed people to speak up more like the "Me to movement ". I'm not saying bringing up race issues is bad, I'm saying not all were real I believe some were for political reasons. But not in this case. But just like me to it allowed them to talk now.
 

Pompous Elitist

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What kind of baiting are you doing here? Just say what you really wanna say.

Obviously 2020 was a year where a long overdue racial equality conversation exploded to the surface after the George Floyd murder. It's pretty clear you have a problem with the multitudes of black athletes who felt emboldened in the moment and spoke up against the machine. I guess since they didn't want to risk their scholarship/job/life to say something right when it happened, they should just swallow it and be happy with their good fortunes, yeah? Kinda like sexual assault or sexual abuse, if a victim didn't say something right at the moment of the crime, we should obviously really be questioning their stories and/or motives.

People have been empowered by strength in numbers for centuries. Sorry that this movement has been inconvenient or annoying for you. It's too bad those darn blacks couldn't have figured out how to do better.

GTFO. 🤮

The same players accused Ferentz of multiple things we’ve chronicled here, most of which were unverifiable statements, hearsay, or of no real consequence and probably not racist (none of us can see into Ferentz’s heart or mind). Maybe insensitive at best to expect strict, blanket adherence to a team culture when some are not accustomed or inclined for it. There is a risk of overstating your case and damaging the meaning of certain words and allegations. I don’t know what happened here. The alleged events around Doyle and Kirk Jr were more repulsive. Ferentz has survived so far, Doyle is gone, Kirk Jr is unfortunately still there. What will 2021 bring? It sounds like Iowa has been making concessions to be more sensitive and less demanding of their players.
 

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alchemy2u

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Well that was an interesting turn of events. I guess second chances only apply to some people and not others in this world. Zero chance this happened as a mere reconsideration of things; the woke and PC mob clearly leaped into action with a social media barrage and attack to prevent this guy from gainful employment.

Doyle's probably a colossal tool, but if we're going to start saying zero 2nd chances for anyone, I kinda see a double standard/hypocrisy issue forming very, very fast.. Only a certain group gets to determine who gets second chances perhaps
Please do not me so mellow dramatic about a person having to earn respect.

Of course people should be given a second chance, but they have to earn it. He just got fired at Iowa and the dust isn't even settled and now he gets a"promotion" to the big league without proving that he has changed his ways? Let him build up that trust at a small school, prove that he has respect for the players. He needs to earn another shot at the big leagues. That is how second chances work!
 

alchemy2u

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So, what is the way back for convicted racists (and alleged racists - from a certain POV). Are they allowed to rejoin society at some point, post mea culpa?

Is there a mechanism for forgiveness? Serious question. Does it depend on the degree of infraction? Doyle acted stupidly but does that garner him a lifetime employment ban? What if he apologizes and cleans up his act?
Like I said before, he has to earn the trust just like everyone else does.
 

50PoundHead

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The same players accused Ferentz of multiple things we’ve chronicled here, most of which were unverifiable statements, hearsay, or of no real consequence and probably not racist (none of us can see into Ferentz’s heart or mind). Maybe insensitive at best to expect strict, blanket adherence to a team culture when some are not accustomed or inclined for it. There is a risk of overstating your case and damaging the meaning of certain words and allegations. I don’t know what happened here. The alleged events around Doyle and Kirk Jr were more repulsive. Ferentz has survived so far, Doyle is gone, Kirk Jr is unfortunately still there. What will 2021 bring? It sounds like Iowa has been making concessions to be more sensitive and less demanding of their players.
rs
Maybe that is happening, but I don't see being sensitive to individual players and still having high standards that require considerable effort on the part of the players as being mutually exclusive. I think Kill struck a pretty good balance in that regard.
 

alchemy2u

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It's dangerous territory to go simply with the standard of "what the players are comfortable with". I'm all about empowering the players, I thought it was fantastic when a number of the B1G players stood up and said they wanted to play (funny how some people didn't think it was good to empower them for THAT....). But what if a handful of players allegedly sexually assaulted one or a couple of female students and the players stood up and said they wanted the players on the team, they "weren't comfortable with" not allowing them to play, etc.?

I don't know what the right answer is in this case, I'm just saying we are getting into very dangerous territory here.
Now you are mixing up completely different issues. You can not be an effective leader if you are not respected by the people you lead. It is not dangerous territory for people to be responsible for their actions. It is like the people who misunderstand the meaning of free speech. They think they do not have to be accountable for what they say.
 

alchemy2u

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... It sounds like Iowa has been making concessions to be more sensitive and less demanding of their players.
No, be less demeaning to the players.

A classic example of this is comparing PJ to Frost. Both are very demanding of their players. One does it with positive encouragement and the other goes with old school ridicule and humiliation. Which one do you think builds better character in their players?
 
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