Make It Happen, Ben!

Gopher Teeth

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That's fair. At the same time....there appears to be a few posters on this board who are convinced that BJ will fail. Not a fair assessment based on limited information.
Maybe, but maybe its correct. I agree that when you have limited information it's more unlikely you have the critical information, but in reality it's possible that limited information is the deciding reason Johnson will fail or succeed. Nobody knows who is right or not at this point, that's why I think getting frustrated/angry doesn't make sense, and if you are getting angry then maybe message boards aren't for you or at least put people with different opinions than yours on ignore.
 

bc2211

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That's fair. At the same time....there appears to be a few posters on this board who are convinced that BJ will fail. Not a fair assessment based on limited information.
Without diving into the nuance of his specific role (which recruits he landed, which of his succeeded/flopped, how his specific game plans resulted in wins and losses), it is fair to say that the teams he has been a part of have not succeeded to date.

My response to Chico on how I get guys like Manley on campus is to hire a coach with a winning track record. There is little BJ can say or do, little that MN can offer uniquely, to make his question something we on this board can react to. BJ has to build a relationship with the kid and explain to him how he will meet his goals. That relationship will vary for every player, and frankly, all we know about Manley is that he wants to play professionally.

My two cents on the player and how he’ll fit... a guy like Manley isn’t going to turn us into a winner, but he would add some intrigue to the roster and give me a player I can key in on.
 

stocker08

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Maybe, but maybe its correct. I agree that when you have limited information it's more unlikely you have the critical information, but in reality it's possible that limited information is the deciding reason Johnson will fail or succeed. Nobody knows who is right or not at this point, that's why I think getting frustrated/angry doesn't make sense, and if you are getting angry then maybe message boards aren't for you or at least put people with different opinions than yours on ignore.

I guess I don't see people getting "angry". I see a poster calling eternal naysayers "dicks". Maybe he's correct though. I'd think that fans of the team could have some rationality regarding the coaching choice. A few guys are convinced, or at least acting like, that failure is a foregone conclusion.
 

bc2211

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No, he is most likely upset with the same group of posters that have a negative spin on everything about the program. They’re quite a few people who get paid a lot of money to be experts in college basketball (coaches, AD’s, etc..) that think this is a good hire. Maybe not optimal, but still a good hire. We all understand that not everyone is happy with the hire, but there comes a time when they need to be supportive of the program and to stop rehashing the same old complaints. If that is too difficult for some to do then maybe they should just step away for awhile and let it play out.

Winner make the most of what they have, loser just bitch about what they don’t have.
I like the positivity of this thread, and it’s much needed, but there is no moral standard to being a fan. There is no obligation to be supportive of those making decisions. Our individual fandoms and perspectives are not impactful on this program.
 

stocker08

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Without diving into the nuance of his specific role (which recruits he landed, which of his succeeded/flopped, how his specific game plans resulted in wins and losses), it is fair to say that the teams he has been a part of have not succeeded to date.

My response to Chico on how I get guys like Manley on campus is to hire a coach with a winning track record. There is little BJ can say or do, little that MN can offer uniquely, to make his question something we on this board can react to. BJ has to build a relationship with the kid and explain to him how he will meet his goals. That relationship will vary for every player, and frankly, all we know about Manley is that he wants to play professionally.

My two cents on the player and how he’ll fit... a guy like Manley isn’t going to turn us into a winner, but he would add some intrigue to the roster and give me a player I can key in on.

Sure. I just don't think that's entirely relevant. Being an assistant on a great team doesn't necessarily make you a shoe-in to be successful. How many coaches under Belichick have flopped? Mangini, Weis, McDaniels, Crenell? Much like having a small coaching role on a bad team doesn't preclude you from success. Hasn't it been noted that Johnson clashed with Pitino at times when he was an assistant here? Fact is....as an assistant....you are following the lead of the head coach. It's their team. They run the practices, they determine who to pursue to be on the team, they design the gameplan.
 


bc2211

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Sure. I just don't think that's entirely relevant. Being an assistant on a great team doesn't necessarily make you a shoe-in to be successful. How many coaches under Belichick have flopped? Mangini, Weis, McDaniels, Crenell? Much like having a small coaching role on a bad team doesn't preclude you from success. Hasn't it been noted that Johnson clashed with Pitino at times when he was an assistant here? Fact is....as an assistant....you are following the lead of the head coach. It's their team. They run the practices, they determine who to pursue to be on the team, they design the gameplan.
For sure, but how many head coaches praise the coaches they learned under? They serve as a model. You can learn from failure; but I would have hoped that we could have hired a coach who was part of a winning program at least once. Ultimately there is no guarantee of success either way, of course.
 

MennoSota

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Traditionally, Gopher basketball is the treadmill of the B1G...they get walked on or run over. Does it really matter who the coach is? Since Haskins we have had HOF coaches, coaches from pedigree programs and now a newbie. Does it really matter? History has shown that it hasn't mattered. The Gophers are historically ordinary.
 

stocker08

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Traditionally, Gopher basketball is the treadmill of the B1G...they get walked on or run over. Does it really matter who the coach is? Since Haskins we have had HOF coaches, coaches from pedigree programs and now a newbie. Does it really matter? History has shown that it hasn't mattered. The Gophers are historically ordinary.

Lots of teams have gone from historically ordinary to great when the right guy is in place. Take a look at the defending national champion Baylor team prior to Scott Drew. That was a program in as bad, if not worse condition, than the Gophers are now.

After Drew's first four years of disorder, plagued by sanctions, from the '03-'07 season.....he never finished worse than 7th in the Big 12.....if you omit the 9th place finish in '09. Since '09....he's had two Elite Eight and two Sweet Sixteen teams....and that doesn't include this past year's NC.

Prior to his current position at Baylor.....only had assistant experience at Valpo. From the expert opinions of wonkies here on the basketball board....Drew couldn't have possibly succeeded.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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Lots of teams have gone from historically ordinary to great when the right guy is in place. Take a look at the defending national champion Baylor team prior to Scott Drew. That was a program in as bad, if not worse condition, than the Gophers are now.

After Drew's first four years of disorder, plagued by sanctions, from the '03-'07 season.....he never finished worse than 7th in the Big 12.....if you omit the 9th place finish in '09. Since '09....he's had two Elite Eight and two Sweet Sixteen teams....and that doesn't include this past year's NC.

Prior to his current position at Baylor.....only had assistant experience at Valpo.
From the expert opinions of wonkies here on the basketball board....Drew couldn't have possibly succeeded.

I swear, some people just love making up their own facts

Coaching career (HC unless noted)
1991–1993Butler (student manager)
1993–2002Valparaiso (assistant)
2002–2003Valparaiso (head coach people!)


Afterwards, Drew assumed an assistant coaching position with the Valparaiso University Crusaders men's team under his father Homer Drew. He spent nine years in this position, during which he earned a master's degree from Valparaiso and a reputation as one of the best recruiters in the nation. Once the elder Drew retired, he became the team's head coach for one year. In that year, Valparaiso won the regular-season conference championship, but lost to IUPUI in the Mid-Continent Conference tournament, thus losing the bid to the NCAA tournament. However, the team proceeded to earn an NIT bid. When Drew went to Baylor, his father came out of retirement to coach Valpo.


Now please show me where Ben was head coach and had a reputation as one of the best recruiters in the nation.

People that make up their own facts are why this country can be such a sht show at times.
 



stocker08

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I swear, some people just love making up their own facts

Coaching career (HC unless noted)
1991–1993Butler (student manager)
1993–2002Valparaiso (assistant)
2002–2003Valparaiso (head coach people!)


Afterwards, Drew assumed an assistant coaching position with the Valparaiso University Crusaders men's team under his father Homer Drew. He spent nine years in this position, during which he earned a master's degree from Valparaiso and a reputation as one of the best recruiters in the nation. Once the elder Drew retired, he became the team's head coach for one year. In that year, Valparaiso won the regular-season conference championship, but lost to IUPUI in the Mid-Continent Conference tournament, thus losing the bid to the NCAA tournament. However, the team proceeded to earn an NIT bid. When Drew went to Baylor, his father came out of retirement to coach Valpo.


Now please show me where Ben was head coach and had a reputation as one of the best recruiters in the nation.

People that make up their own facts are why this country can be such a sht show at times.

Wait....he was the head coach for one entire year at Valpo!! A non-power conference team? And that was after being an assistant at a non-power conference team? Sounds like Johnson will have better experience after one year here.

But please don't let facts get in the way of your busted ass narrative. Always fun to watch posters flop around like dying fish.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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Wait....he was the head coach for one entire year at Valpo!! A non-power conference team? And that was after being an assistant at a non-power conference team? Sounds like Johnson will have better experience after one year here.

But please don't let facts get in the way of your busted ass narrative. Always fun to watch posters flop around like dying fish.

There it is, the classic backpedal.


You're a good little puppet, yes you are, so good.

Now do something else puppet, do it! I am your master.

Muhahahhaaha.
 


stocker08

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There it is, the classic backpedal.


You're a good little puppet, yes you are, so good.

Now do something else puppet, do it! I am your master.

Muhahahhaaha.

Classic backpedal? From what? You think Ben Johnson will fail because he doesn't have experience. At the same time....you think Scott Drew who had a similar amount of experience as an assistant coach....at a LOWER tier team.....did have the experience. Ah....but he also had that one year of head coaching experience at Valpo where he took his team to a 20-12 record....missing the NCAA Tournament.

Yeah. I've seen all I need to see here. An embarrassed poster with a lame argument. Think that everyone can officially file you under: "Joke", "Goon", and "Zero-basketball Knowledge".
 



SanDiegoGopherFan

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Classic backpedal? From what? You think Ben Johnson will fail because he doesn't have experience. At the same time....you think Scott Drew who had a similar amount of experience as an assistant coach....at a LOWER tier team.....did have the experience. Ah....but he also had that one year of head coaching experience at Valpo where he took his team to a 20-12 record....missing the NCAA Tournament.

Yeah. I've seen all I need to see here. An embarrassed poster with a lame argument. Think that everyone can officially file you under: "Joke", "Goon", and "Zero-basketball Knowledge".

Good puppet! Keep entertaining me. Come on puppet! I own you!!

Muhahahahaha.

P.S - Just don't tell your mom on me.
 

stocker08

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Good puppet! Keep entertaining me. Come on puppet! I own you!!

Muhahahahaha.

P.S - Just don't tell your mom on me.

Is "puppet" a term you've heard recently. You don't seem to be using it correctly. Might be a side effect of eating chemical popsicles.

Normally don't advocate for banning users....but this troll appears to be a non-Gopher fan waste of space.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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Is "puppet" a term you've heard recently. You don't seem to be using it correctly. Might be a side effect of eating chemical popsicles.

Normally don't advocate for banning users....but this troll appears to be a non-Gopher fan waste of space.

You're getting boring puppet. Do something else. I feel like you have better material.

hahahaha
 

stocker08

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You're getting boring puppet. Do something else. I feel like you have better material.

hahahaha

Already posted it and busted you. Scott Drew had no better resume than Ben Johnson. You looked the fool trying to refute that. A failure that will be stuck to you for your time here.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan

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Already posted it and busted you. Scott Drew had no better resume than Ben Johnson. You looked the fool trying to refute that. A failure that will be stuck to you for your time here.

You're boring puppet.

I'll give you a good reference for the next court jester job you apply to.

You're a good puppet, don't let anyone else tell you different.
 

stocker08

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I think I'll let some other posters take over from here. I thought this fool might have some intelligent thought rattling around in that empty brain.

I was wrong and wasted time.
 

ethomasp31

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I swear, some people just love making up their own facts

Coaching career (HC unless noted)
1991–1993Butler (student manager)
1993–2002Valparaiso (assistant)
2002–2003Valparaiso (head coach people!)


Afterwards, Drew assumed an assistant coaching position with the Valparaiso University Crusaders men's team under his father Homer Drew. He spent nine years in this position, during which he earned a master's degree from Valparaiso and a reputation as one of the best recruiters in the nation. Once the elder Drew retired, he became the team's head coach for one year. In that year, Valparaiso won the regular-season conference championship, but lost to IUPUI in the Mid-Continent Conference tournament, thus losing the bid to the NCAA tournament. However, the team proceeded to earn an NIT bid. When Drew went to Baylor, his father came out of retirement to coach Valpo.


Now please show me where Ben was head coach and had a reputation as one of the best recruiters in the nation.

People that make up their own facts are why this country can be such a sht show at times.

You quoted a Wikipedia article as your resource and you are ripping someone else?
 

Ozzy&Ray

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Traditionally, Gopher basketball is the treadmill of the B1G...they get walked on or run over. Does it really matter who the coach is? Since Haskins we have had HOF coaches, coaches from pedigree programs and now a newbie. Does it really matter? History has shown that it hasn't mattered. The Gophers are historically ordinary.
Weird post.

HoF Coaches: Tubby
Pedigree programs: Tubby

Who else meets those definitions? Other than Tubby we hired largely inexperienced coaches with no extended track record of success, both Monson and Pitino. Monson had an NCAA run (one he probably wouldn't have had if it wasn't for our scandal, as they probably would have lost to us that year), and has not had any kind of success since he left.

Tubby is the only one we tried with any kind of extensive experience. And, he did have some success. Yet, probably wasn't the right coach.

We just made three hires that didn't work. Hopefully this one does.
 

GopherPete

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Weird post.

HoF Coaches: Tubby
Pedigree programs: Tubby

Who else meets those definitions? Other than Tubby we hired largely inexperienced coaches with no extended track record of success, both Monson and Pitino. Monson had an NCAA run (one he probably wouldn't have had if it wasn't for our scandal, as they probably would have lost to us that year), and has not had any kind of success since he left.

Tubby is the only one we tried with any kind of extensive experience. And, he did have some success. Yet, probably wasn't the right coach.

We just made three hires that didn't work. Hopefully this one does.
I think the pedigree programs was in reference to Pitinos asst. coaching background.
 


alchemy2u

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I like the positivity of this thread, and it’s much needed, but there is no moral standard to being a fan. There is no obligation to be supportive of those making decisions. Our individual fandoms and perspectives are not impactful on this program.
Of course not, but there can be a fine line between irrationally bashing the team or being a troll that is just trying to start an argument. It gets very tiresome for the typically fans to see every thread degenerate into the same bitch sessions. Our individual fandoms and perspectives are impactful on our enjoyment of the team.

I still do think that our banter does have some impact on the team. In interviews with coaches or incoming players, they all say they know about the criticism of our coach and them. Most will say it doesn't have any impact, but then say they want to prove the fans wrong.
 

alchemy2u

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I think I'll let some other posters take over from here. I thought this fool might have some intelligent thought rattling around in that empty brain.

I was wrong and wasted time.
Lust put him on ignore, he is not worth the effort.
 

bc2211

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Of course not, but there can be a fine line between irrationally bashing the team or being a troll that is just trying to start an argument. It gets very tiresome for the typically fans to see every thread degenerate into the same bitch sessions. Our individual fandoms and perspectives are impactful on our enjoyment of the team.

I still do think that our banter does have some impact on the team. In interviews with coaches or incoming players, they all say they know about the criticism of our coach and them. Most will say it doesn't have any impact, but then say they want to prove the fans wrong.
Welcome to Internet forums, my dude.
 

builtbadgers

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Of course not, but there can be a fine line between irrationally bashing the team or being a troll that is just trying to start an argument. It gets very tiresome for the typically fans to see every thread degenerate into the same bitch sessions. Our individual fandoms and perspectives are impactful on our enjoyment of the team.

I still do think that our banter does have some impact on the team. In interviews with coaches or incoming players, they all say they know about the criticism of our coach and them. Most will say it doesn't have any impact, but then say they want to prove the fans wrong.
Criticism is not always bashing. It may just be a insight or observation shared on a forum that is really not very large. It may have zero influence on which school they pick and still motivate them to prove the fans wrong. I would agree that the consistent criticism of BJ is not helpful but it is few voices. I am puzzled by the negativity before he has officially put a product on the floor. Let us have a few years. We gave the last guy 8 years and still had posters saying he did a pretty good job !
 

Chico Gopher

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Without diving into the nuance of his specific role (which recruits he landed, which of his succeeded/flopped, how his specific game plans resulted in wins and losses), it is fair to say that the teams he has been a part of have not succeeded to date.

My response to Chico on how I get guys like Manley on campus is to hire a coach with a winning track record. There is little BJ can say or do, little that MN can offer uniquely, to make his question something we on this board can react to. BJ has to build a relationship with the kid and explain to him how he will meet his goals. That relationship will vary for every player, and frankly, all we know about Manley is that he wants to play professionally.

My two cents on the player and how he’ll fit... a guy like Manley isn’t going to turn us into a winner, but he would add some intrigue to the roster and give me a player I can key in on.
Actually the question is, with the situation as it is right now, (or 2 years ago when Pitino was not pulling in the top guys in-state) if you were the person who was assigned to get this player into the fold, what would YOU do or say to make it happen. Of course, the caveat is to make sure it's completely above board and won't put our team at risk with NCAA rules.

The idea being that some are convinced that the Mn. staff has not done enough to get prized recruits to play for the Gophers. The question is mostly directed to those folks, so I can get an idea what they believe needs (or should have) to be said/offered/promised that has not been done in the past.
 

alchemy2u

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Criticism is not always bashing. It may just be a insight or observation shared on a forum that is really not very large. It may have zero influence on which school they pick and still motivate them to prove the fans wrong. I would agree that the consistent criticism of BJ is not helpful but it is few voices. I am puzzled by the negativity before he has officially put a product on the floor. Let us have a few years. We gave the last guy 8 years and still had posters saying he did a pretty good job !
I agree, but I am not really talking about the critics or insight that actually have a point. This was directed for the ones you talk about.
 

alchemy2u

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For sure, but how many head coaches praise the coaches they learned under? They serve as a model. You can learn from failure; but I would have hoped that we could have hired a coach who was part of a winning program at least once. Ultimately there is no guarantee of success either way, of course.
Please try doing a little research before you just make sh!t up.

- When Ben was a coach at Minnesota they had a season with 24 wins (11-7 in B1G) and another one where they won the NIT with 25 wins. They were ranked in the top 25 during the 24 win season.
- When Ben was a coach at Northern Iowa it had seasons with 23, 30, 20 and 20 wins and made the NCAA Tournament twice. They were ranked in the top 20 during the 30 win season.
- When Ben was a coach at Xavier it had seasons with 19, 19 and 13 (best W/L%) and was ranked in the top 25 for two of those years.

No, Ben did not lead Kentucky to 15 national championships, but he has been involved in coaching winning teams.

You lose all credibility when you can even make up stuff that is believable, especially when it defeats the whole point of your argument.
 




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