Leave Tucker Carlson Alone

howeda7

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The big thing is that, once vaccinated, one may still become infected (typically with at worst, mild symptoms), and be a carrier host that passes it on to others. A disease vector. You know, like a deer tick passing on lyme disease. I haven't seen any convincing information that vaccinated persons are not potential carriers/transmitters.
I believe it has been shown that fully vaccinated people getting asymptomatic infections is rare.

At some point, once everyone has had a chance to be vaccinated, those who refuse are just going to have to live with being exposed and getting it. We can't go around protecting them from themselves forever.
 

MplsGopher

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I won’t lift a finger to protect someone who choose not to get the vaccine.
 

Spoofin

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Based on a GH poll, only 12% of adults would say no.
Not scientific, but certainly as valid as anyting WaPo puts out.
 

Section2

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You couldn't bother yourself a few minutes to read any of the information I sent you, could you? Never wonder why you remain so extremely mis/uninformed, it's all of your own doing/not doing.
I did. I find it very hard to believe that 11% of the country has no ID. I could believe that 11% have no drivers license. Not everyone drives. But ID is needed to do almost anything.

regardless, you would then also need to prove that 11% CAN NOT get an ID.
 

cncmin

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I did. I find it very hard to believe that 11% of the country has no ID. I could believe that 11% have no drivers license. Not everyone drives. But ID is needed to do almost anything.

regardless, you would then also need to prove that 11% CAN NOT get an ID.
First, thanks for looking at that material, and I sincerely hope it was interesting and educational.

Looks like you are trying to play word games here (not surprising, my friend). If you are going with the absolutist definition of CAN NOT (like 100% impossible), then and only then I grant that you are literally correct. I don't think and I don't talk in binary black and white. I talk in terms of practicality. For some people, getting an ID is quite difficult, time consuming, or even monetarily prohibitive. CAN they do it? I guess if they try exceedingly hard, maybe. I suspect with enough time and effort, eventually you could obtain the ID. But no one should have to try that hard.

And by the way, as someone who has misplaced my original birth certificate and original social security card such that the easiest way to obtain one in time of need was to request and pay for new official copies and wait for the delivery of both, I know how frustrating it can be to have to get these things; and that's with me having ready computer/internet access and having no concern at all with the cost (iirc the certified birth certificate was almost $100). Leaves one little wonder that if you make obtaining an ID hard enough to frustrate people who don't yet have one enough to ensure a large portion of them won't go through all the muck and hassle to do it, that's a very effective way to suppress voting. I think you want to put yourself in the shoes of those 11% who don't have ready access to an ID. Those people often do not have the same luxuries and resources as you and I. But they, too, deserve to be able to vote and have a say in how we govern ourselves.

By far the easiest solution is to have states that want to employ voter ID provide everyone an ID (no individual fee). I still haven't seen anyone describe why that shouldn't happen.
 
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howeda7

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I did. I find it very hard to believe that 11% of the country has no ID. I could believe that 11% have no drivers license. Not everyone drives. But ID is needed to do almost anything.

regardless, you would then also need to prove that 11% CAN NOT get an ID.
I'd be willing to get that 11% do not have a currently valid ID. Many senior citizens have expired driver's licenses because they don't drive. Many younger people have ID's with old addresses on them. Both of which can generally be used to fly/buy booze etc. but not to vote. That is the issue.
 

Section2

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I'd be willing to get that 11% do not have a currently valid ID. Many senior citizens have expired driver's licenses because they don't drive. Many younger people have ID's with old addresses on them. Both of which can generally be used to fly/buy booze etc. but not to vote. That is the issue.
So once every 4 years, they get a valid id. Or states make it easier to get a valid ID. But “can’t get an ID is not true.
 

Section2

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They are setting examples for everyone else. Arguably the best way to lead is to lead by example.
They are indeed setting an example. That vaccines don’t work, and if you get a vaccine, nothing changes.
 

Section2

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First, thanks for looking at that material, and I sincerely hope it was interesting and educational.

Looks like you are trying to play word games here (not surprising, my friend). If you are going with the absolutist definition of CAN NOT (like 100% impossible), then and only then I grant that you are literally correct. I don't think and I don't talk in binary black and white. I talk in terms of practicality. For some people, getting an ID is quite difficult, time consuming, or even monetarily prohibitive. CAN they do it? I guess if they try exceedingly hard, maybe. I suspect with enough time and effort, eventually you could obtain the ID. But no one should have to try that hard.

And by the way, as someone who has misplaced my original birth certificate and original social security card such that the easiest way to obtain one in time of need was to request and pay for new official copies and wait for the delivery of both, I know how frustrating it can be to have to get these things; and that's with me having ready computer/internet access and having no concern at all with the cost (iirc the certified birth certificate was almost $100). Leaves one little wonder that if you make obtaining an ID hard enough to frustrate people who don't yet have one enough to ensure a large portion of them won't go through all the muck and hassle to do it, that's a very effective way to suppress voting. I think you want to put yourself in the shoes of those 11% who don't have ready access to an ID. Those people often do not have the same luxuries and resources as you and I. But they, too, deserve to be able to vote and have a say in how we govern ourselves.

By far the easiest solution is to have states that want to employ voter ID provide everyone an ID (no individual fee). I still haven't seen anyone describe why that shouldn't happen.
It’s not binary. The word CAN NOT is absolute. The term more difficult is subjective and flexible. I said everyone CAN, and you said my statement was not just false but a LIE.
You have to plan ahead. You can’t wait til the day of needing a government document and get it quickly. Well, you could if it was a privately run service and not government. You make the bed you lie in.
 

howeda7

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So once every 4 years, they get a valid id. Or states make it easier to get a valid ID. But “can’t get an ID is not true.
Or states can have reasonable voter ID laws and allow other means of proving where you live.

I have personally skipped voting once because I knew I was moving again in a few months and didn't want to spend 2 hours at the DMV getting a new ID JUST to use for voting one time. I'm sure that is not unusual.

You think it's fine to make people choose between devoting hours to complying with voter ID laws and standing in line or not voting. I don't.
 

Section2

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Or states can have reasonable voter ID laws and allow other means of proving where you live.

I have personally skipped voting once because I knew I was moving again in a few months and didn't want to spend 2 hours at the DMV getting a new ID JUST to use for voting one time. I'm sure that is not unusual.

You think it's fine to make people choose between devoting hours to complying with voter ID laws and standing in line or not voting. I don't.
They can do whatever they like. And you are free to your opinion.
could you not just vote at your old precinct?

any rule that impacts you, a very wealthy well educated white man, sounds like a law that’s being applied pretty equally.
 

cncmin

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So once every 4 years, they get a valid id. Or states make it easier to get a valid ID. But “can’t get an ID is not true.
The point is that if it is very difficult to impractical or takes a long time to get one, then for all intents and purposes, those people will not put in the extensive effort it would take. The solution to all of that is super easy. Please address why the government should not or cannot just give those folks a voting ID.
 

howeda7

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They can do whatever they like. And you are free to your opinion.
could you not just vote at your old precinct?

any rule that impacts you, a very wealthy well educated white man, sounds like a law that’s being applied pretty equally.
That would be voter fraud! Are you encouraging that as a solution?

Equally applied doesn't mean it impacts equally. Who's more likely not to have a current ID? College students, young people and the elderly. Who's most likely to have issues with their birth certificates and getting them corrected etc? Immigrants and minorities. Guess which way most of these groups tend to vote?
 

Section2

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That would be voter fraud! Are you encouraging that as a solution?

Equally applied doesn't mean it impacts equally. Who's more likely not to have a current ID? College students, young people and the elderly. Who's most likely to have issues with their birth certificates and getting them corrected etc? Immigrants and minorities. Guess which way most of these groups tend to vote?
Did you move to a new state or did you move 15 minutes away? I don’t know what the law says, but I don’t see any problem if you moved in the last month and voted in your old precinct.

no voter laws impact everyone equally. Minorities have issues with their birth certificates? Source? I bet you also think they can’t operate a computer.

you can push and argue for any rules or lack of rules you want. We don’t have to agree. I do not place any value on universal suffrage. You think it is the most important thing. I’m not in favor of restricting on race or gender. But I am in favor of much stricter limits.
 

Section2

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Huh??? Come on, man.
That’s not the intended message. But that is absolutely the message being sent. Stop trying to manipulate the public. Just be honest with them. If the vaccine works, and you’re meeting with a group of people all fully vaccinated, then masks are unnecessary. That would be a very powerful incentive for the public to get vaccinated. But I guess we’re just going to blame right wingers if not everyone gets vaccinated.
 

Section2

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The point is that if it is very difficult to impractical or takes a long time to get one, then for all intents and purposes, those people will not put in the extensive effort it would take. The solution to all of that is super easy. Please address why the government should not or cannot just give those folks a voting ID.
Then that is their choice. But they can also make the choice to go thru the process, as everyone else has, and get their ID.
voting is a privilege.
 

cncmin

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That’s not the intended message. But that is absolutely the message being sent. Stop trying to manipulate the public. Just be honest with them. If the vaccine works, and you’re meeting with a group of people all fully vaccinated, then masks are unnecessary. That would be a very powerful incentive for the public to get vaccinated. But I guess we’re just going to blame right wingers if not everyone gets vaccinated.
Yes, masks would be unnecessary under those situations. But many Americans have not yet gotten the vaccine, and should be mask wearing. It is righteous and appropriate for our top elected official to lead by example and wear a mask in public to encourage others to do the same, period.

I just don't understand what your mental block is on this. You sure seem to be stretching hard for something to be complaining about. Man, I can only imagine how furious you'd be if he wore a mask while wearing a tan suit!
 

cncmin

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Then that is their choice. But they can also make the choice to go thru the process, as everyone else has, and get their ID.
voting is a privilege.
Again, you think it's easy because you have none of the problems that they have. You tend to do a poor job of relating and understanding to the problems of others when your life experiences don't match. I don't know what personality trait that is as I'm not a sociologist, but it sounds like you are lacking in empathy.

The world is a lot bigger and more complex than the small world of your own personal experiences, man.

I notice that you still haven't answered why states that demand voting IDs cannot just provide all of these IDs free from individual fees or extensive or arduous application processes. Anything less is effectively a voting tax, the practice of which is quite anti-democratic.
 

Spoofin

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The point is that if it is very difficult to impractical or takes a long time to get one, then for all intents and purposes, those people will not put in the extensive effort it would take. The solution to all of that is super easy. Please address why the government should not or cannot just give those folks a voting ID.
🙄
 

MplsGopher

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The solution to all of that is super easy. Please address why the government should not or cannot just give those folks a voting ID.
Exactly correct.

Each state should automatically mail a free ID card to each resident each year, for voting purposes.
 

Section2

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Again, you think it's easy because you have none of the problems that they have. You tend to do a poor job of relating and understanding to the problems of others when your life experiences don't match. I don't know what personality trait that is as I'm not a sociologist, but it sounds like you are lacking in empathy.

The world is a lot bigger and more complex than the small world of your own personal experiences, man.

I notice that you still haven't answered why states that demand voting IDs cannot just provide all of these IDs free from individual fees or extensive or arduous application processes. Anything less is effectively a voting tax, the practice of which is quite anti-democratic.
What about the hardship of not being able to buy cigarettes, or alcohol, or a gun? Not being able to fly in an airplane?
i don’t think you or Howie care about these people at all. You care about their vote. More than they do.
states can do that if they want to. Can you answer why states don’t just provide me with my drivers license without all the fees and application process? I had to go back to the DMV 3 times for my real ID. They should just send me one with no effort.
I don’t view Democracy as of great value. Anti democratic is what this country is. Because Democracy is tyranny.
 

Wally

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That's part of it, sure. It's actually a relatively small part of it for me.

All of Europe understands this. All of Asia understands this.

The Greeks understood it. The Romans understood it. Literally, every single democracy outside of Canada and the US understands this INCREDIBLY simple concept. Governments are created for the people in that country.

Only American liberals are dumb enough to pretend to not understand this. Even dummies like you and Jam Jam, understand this when we are talking about states and local governments.

Understand that people are selfish pieces of shit, I understand it.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Understand that people are selfish pieces of shit, I understand it.

Selfish? They are looking out for their collective children. It might be a lot of things but selfish isn't one of them.
 

howeda7

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What about the hardship of not being able to buy cigarettes, or alcohol, or a gun? Not being able to fly in an airplane?
i don’t think you or Howie care about these people at all. You care about their vote.

I don’t view Democracy as of great value. Anti democratic is what this country is. Because Democracy is tyranny.
In many cases an ID sufficient to buy cigarettes or a gun or fly will not be sufficient to vote. I've already said this multiple times in this thread alone. You continue to deflect.

We know you don't value Democracy. Sad. Maybe butt out of how a Democracy you don't value runs its elections then?
 

Section2

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Maybe butt out of how a Democracy you don't value runs its elections then?
I’m not the one inserting myself into the election laws of a state I don’t reside in, Howie.
 
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