Keep the faith

cncmin

Well-known member
Pitino hasn't shown anything other than the ability to be nothing but ups and downs year after year. There is no consistency to the program. The program isn't any better off since he took over. Year 7 and there is not one thing you can point to that the team does well.

Stop with the excuses for a coach that has one winning conference season to go with one NCAA win as just the normal ups and downs.
I mean you do realize our best player left early for the NBA draft, right? This team would be quite different if he stuck around. Chill. This is a tough early schedule for a team in which so many players are new to the system.
 
And the pro-Pitino club once again making up a lot of excuses.


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I can't help but think of Robb Smith on the football squad. Everyone made excuses for him and I couldn't wait to see him go. He goes and man alive they were a whole new squad. I REALLY like Pitino on a personal level. He has a great personality, family guy, seems to like being here. Part of me wants him to stay and do his thing. However, he just hasn't put things together. His no-offense offense is really tough to watch. It's like they have no plan on offense, that's my biggest beef. Throw that ball inside to the big fella. He can dominate! Carr has to learn to not be Jelly...sometimes he is out of control and hogs the ball, and like Jelly he has the talent to be really good. Play as a team and gain an offensive identity! Lets go Pitino, I don't want to see you go but you just keep looking like Robb Smith!
 
I can't help but think of Robb Smith on the football squad. Everyone made excuses for him and I couldn't wait to see him go. He goes and man alive they were a whole new squad. I REALLY like Pitino on a personal level. He has a great personality, family guy, seems to like being here. Part of me wants him to stay and do his thing. However, he just hasn't put things together. His no-offense offense is really tough to watch. It's like they have no plan on offense, that's my biggest beef. Throw that ball inside to the big fella. He can dominate! Carr has to learn to not be Jelly...sometimes he is out of control and hogs the ball, and like Jelly he has the talent to be really good. Play as a team and gain an offensive identity! Lets go Pitino, I don't want to see you go but you just keep looking like Robb Smith!
What do you mean my no offense offense? Pretty much everyone runs a form of motion now. They have rules and expectations. If anything Pitinos weave was more a set offense than most other places. Coaches run actions amid players read and react to what's given. A coaches role is to select actions and decide rules (what's an exceptable shot for whom, when are shots allowed in the click, etc..). Think Richards better comparison would be Tim Miles. Great guy, but either win now or time to move on. I still think we are better this year at the end of the year than last year.
 

BarnBurner

Active member
Never cheer for Duke, always UVA. It is kids that want to play for him. Have my own opinions. Do not need you lying about my what they are. You really have no clue if you think as a UVA season ticket holder i support K. I support kids to choose who they want to play for. Including if they choose to not play here. Unlike a ton of fans i support several programs so i am not blinded by some provincial loyalty. We were not raised that way. Why not simply share your own opinions instead of attacking others or lying about their statements.
I was ignoring you until you attacked me, built. Did I do that correctly?

You support kids going to play for K, a dirty coach. And you wont admit K is dirty, built. That is all that needs to be said, badger.
 
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builtbadgers

Well-known member
What do you mean my no offense offense? Pretty much everyone runs a form of motion now. They have rules and expectations. If anything Pitinos weave was more a set offense than most other places. Coaches run actions amid players read and react to what's given. A coaches role is to select actions and decide rules (what's an exceptable shot for whom, when are shots allowed in the click, etc..). Think Richards better comparison would be Tim Miles. Great guy, but either win now or time to move on. I still think we are better this year at the end of the year than last year.
Agree with all of this. The sets run need to be tailored toward the strength and away from the weakness of your players. Bad shooting can make a offense look bad and that part is on players. Great shooting comes and goes and that is why the best coaches stress great defense. Great defense holds you in games and win games on nights where scoring is hard to come by.
 

Bad Gopher

A Loner, A Rebel
Agree with all of this. The sets run need to be tailored toward the strength and away from the weakness of your players. Bad shooting can make a offense look bad and that part is on players. Great shooting comes and goes and that is why the best coaches stress great defense. Great defense holds you in games and win games on nights where scoring is hard to come by.
Thing about this team is that, like you, I've been impressed with their defense at times. And then they go into these defensive lapses, not unlike the offensive droughts they go in and out of. The inability to play consistently well has been the difference in all three losses this year in my estimation.
 
Thing about this team is that, like you, I've been impressed with their defense at times. And then they go into these defensive lapses, not unlike the offensive droughts they go in and out of. The inability to play consistently well has been the difference in all three losses this year in my estimation.
Their defense was awful against Oklahoma and that cost them the game (Yes I know their shooting struggled too). The other games I felt we just didn't shoot very well and turned the ball over too much. I'm fine with where our D is going and what I think it'll be by the end of the year. As far as offensive "lapses" or droughts in a game, I struggle to find that as an important stat. 82 pts is 82 points in no matter if they came in a barrage or spread out. I think this teams offense struggles will improve as well.
 
What do you mean my no offense offense? Pretty much everyone runs a form of motion now. They have rules and expectations. If anything Pitinos weave was more a set offense than most other places. Coaches run actions amid players read and react to what's given. A coaches role is to select actions and decide rules (what's an exceptable shot for whom, when are shots allowed in the click, etc..). Think Richards better comparison would be Tim Miles. Great guy, but either win now or time to move on. I still think we are better this year at the end of the year than last year.
I guess I was being a little sarcastic. It seems like they hold the ball at the top of the 3 point line ( or around there) guys on the wings move...classic motion offense but it never goes anywhere (not always I'm generalizing here) then Carr drives (or Coffey last year) and is forced into a tough shot. I want to see some different sets and more of an effort to feed Oturu down low, he's too good to not feed him the ball more deliberately. But that's just me. Otherwise I agree for sure with your takes. Miles is a great comparison.
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
Their defense was awful against Oklahoma and that cost them the game (Yes I know their shooting struggled too). The other games I felt we just didn't shoot very well and turned the ball over too much. I'm fine with where our D is going and what I think it'll be by the end of the year. As far as offensive "lapses" or droughts in a game, I struggle to find that as an important stat. 82 pts is 82 points in no matter if they came in a barrage or spread out. I think this teams offense struggles will improve as well.
The vast majority of fans here have rarely seen what results great defense brings. In 6 years we ranked 22nd in defense and had a pretty good team. In another year we were 48th, all others we were truly horrible. You have to be great defensively to build a winner. Just once, lets see us lead the conference in defense an just once be top 10 nationally in defense.
 
I guess I was being a little sarcastic. It seems like they hold the ball at the top of the 3 point line ( or around there) guys on the wings move...classic motion offense but it never goes anywhere (not always I'm generalizing here) then Carr drives (or Coffey last year) and is forced into a tough shot. I want to see some different sets and more of an effort to feed Oturu down low, he's too good to not feed him the ball more deliberately. But that's just me. Otherwise I agree for sure with your takes. Miles is a great comparison.
I agree the ball movement isn't there yet. I think that will take a little more time and will improve and really hope we don't give Carr the leeway we used to give Mason, Coffey, and to an extent Murphy. If we do then I agree we will be in big trouble. I think getting Daniel the ball more and hitting some shots will work together. It's easy to deny and double Daniel when no one is making shots.
 

Go Gophs

Member
So Gabe has shot zero free throws in 4 games which is pathetic..rarely gets a dime or a rebound....less than 2 rebounds and 2 assists per game... so basically defense is their only hope
Gabe was always a regression candidate this year. It should have been easy to see for everyone. He isn't particularly talented. He got on a hot streak shooting the 3 last year. Teams have adjusted.
 

Go Gophs

Member
Shouldn't have said he's not talented. I just feel like he is kinda streaky and surely a regression candidate if his shooting isn't there.
 

Keyser Söze

Well-known member
Shouldn't have said he's not talented. I just feel like he is kinda streaky and surely a regression candidate if his shooting isn't there.
He's always been streaky and was last year too, yet he finished the season as a 41% three point shooter. As someone who knows this, you should also know that he is likely to get a hot streak going and ultimately improve his current shooting percentage.
 
Shouldn't have said he's not talented. I just feel like he is kinda streaky and surely a regression candidate if his shooting isn't there.
The regression will be minimal and will be due to having more focus on him maybe, but truthfully with more shooting available he should come back to life. He's been a high % shooter since I've seen him play as an 8th grader.
 
I am keeping the faith in Pitino and in the future of the team. I'm conflicted like most of you and I understand that you can't simply dismiss the team's B1G record during Richard's tenure. However, there has been such incredible bad luck along the way, just a smattering of examples...

- Eric Curry's injuries
- Amir Coffey leaving early
- Jordan Murphy not being healthy for the round of 32 game
- Akeem Springs being injured and unavailable for the NCAA tournament
- Reggie Lynch
- Carr being ineligible

Imagine an alternate reality where we stayed healthy and had a full cast of players for our NCAA tournament appearances and we went to the sweet 16 twice in three years. I believe we would have advanced to the sweet 16 at least once had the teams stayed healthy. If we had we wouldn't be so eager to dismiss our coach. He has put us in position to be successful but has run into bad luck at the worst imaginable times is my point. Had injuries and Reggie Lynch not interfered with the 2017 season we would have been a top B1G team for two consecutive years with an additional NCAA tournament appearance. It's okay to have a down year this year, especially when you consider the fact that Coffey left early. I'm irritated by the fact that there's no power forward depth, but I think it's okay that he missed a bit (it seems) on Demir. It's okay to miss once in a while. I'm encouraged by the fact that he has recruited two more four-star recruits and I hope that he will find a way to get another on board for the 2020 class.

Many on here seem to think that we should be a force in the B1G year in and year out. While it may be possible with the perfect coach, I just don't see that happening here. Our favorite university doesn't put the financial investment into the basketball program that the top schools in the conference do. Also, I think the top recruits from Minnesota are smart to want to get away from winter and to experience life in a different state/climate. I can understand the frustration with losing recruits to Wisconsin, Marquette, Iowa, etc.. but if a kid goes to a blue-blood or a better climate then I don't even bother questioning it, good for them.

Anyway, this year's team is basically doomed and I don't think that should be the death of Pitino. While I'm not infatuated, it seems like his bad luck and his relatively good recruiting should weigh in on any decision by Coyle to keep him or move on.
 

manny77

Member
I really see any reason to keep Pitino around. Has given scholarships to too many players who didn't develope, losing record, and got some players in this year who can't play at this level. Willing to let season play out, but anything less than NCAA tourney, and its time to start over.
 

kix4kix

Member
I can't understand how every year he has 2-3 players that get significant playing time that don't belong in the big ten, I can understand average, but we are talking about not belonging on the court. Unacceptable after year 2, let alone where we are now.
 
I can't understand how every year he has 2-3 players that get significant playing time that don't belong in the big ten, I can understand average, but we are talking about not belonging on the court. Unacceptable after year 2, let alone where we are now.
How deep do you believe most NCAA teams are? Very few go more than 8 deep And number 8s are Michael Hurts. Depth hasn’t killed this team. Not defending has, lack of 3 pt shooting has, even free throws probably have
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
How deep do you believe most NCAA teams are? Very few go more than 8 deep And number 8s are Michael Hurts. Depth hasn’t killed this team. Not defending has, lack of 3 pt shooting has, even free throws probably have
All true. One good defense, ranked 22nd in 6 years. We have to play lock down defense every single possession, even more so when you shoot poorly because great defense never takes a game off. Great coaches instill it day one and it becomes your identity. It also breeds a mental and physical toughness. It allows you to win enough to find good players who buy in from all over the world.
 
All true. One good defense, ranked 22nd in 6 years. We have to play lock down defense every single possession, even more so when you shoot poorly because great defense never takes a game off. Great coaches instill it day one and it becomes your identity. It also breeds a mental and physical toughness. It allows you to win enough to find good players who buy in from all over the world.
Richard also hired a terrible staff to start. Had he had better nentorship from staff that demanded this of him as well, I think we'd be in a different spot. Rob Jeter will be the one of the main reasons Richard still is here next year I feel it happens.
 

kix4kix

Member
How deep do you believe most NCAA teams are? Very few go more than 8 deep And number 8s are Michael Hurts. Depth hasn’t killed this team. Not defending has, lack of 3 pt shooting has, even free throws probably have
Not having 5 competent players IS an issue, no matter how you slice it. Impossible to play defense when there is always 1 player on the floor that doesn't even belong in the Big.

We have a rotation of 8 with 4 quality players. Impossible to win.
 
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Not having 5 competent players IS an issue, no matter how you slice it. Impossible to play defense when there is always 1 player on the floor that doesn't even belong in the Big.

We have a rotation of 8 with 4 quality players. Impossible to win.
That’s more of a fair argument. Having issues with our starters is something I can listen too. I do feel that Pree (our weakest starter) last year is big ten worthy. Better off the bench. With improved teaching some of those “non big ten” players end up good. Look at the guys Purdue and Wisconsin play.
 

builtbadgers

Well-known member
Not having 5 competent players IS an issue, no matter how you slice it. Impossible to play defense when there is always 1 player on the floor that doesn't even belong in the Big.

We have a rotation of 8 with 4 quality players. Impossible to win.
If it is true that there are only 4 big ten players on the roster whose fault is it ? Other programs that win titles have had guys ranked in the 300's and lower that started !
 

Bad Gopher

A Loner, A Rebel
How deep do you believe most NCAA teams are? Very few go more than 8 deep And number 8s are Michael Hurts. Depth hasn’t killed this team. Not defending has, lack of 3 pt shooting has, even free throws probably have
If you're actually asking... If you don't have 9, your recruiting, roster management, and player development are not what they need to be. Start 5, trust 7, play 9. Nos 8 and 9 on a good team are going to be Trevor Winter and Miles Tarver.
 

JimmyJamesMD

Active member
If you're actually asking... If you don't have 9, your recruiting, roster management, and player development are not what they need to be. Start 5, trust 7, play 9. Nos 8 and 9 on a good team are going to be Trevor Winter and Miles Tarver.
And good teams like Winter and Tarver. I do like Omersa, and think he can contribute, but theres not enough talent right now around him to bring out the best in Omersa
 
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