K-State student athletes are taking a stand against racism

hungan1

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Why Kansas State's student athletes are taking a stand against racism (<---Click to read article)
Mike D. Sykes, II June 27, 2020 12:08 pm, ForTheWin, USA Today

Student athletes at Kansas State are taking a stance against racism sparked by a tweet from Kansas State student Jaden McNeil:

Congratulations to George Floyd on being drug free for an entire month!
— Jaden McNeil (@McNeilJaden)
June 25, 2020

Players from across all sports have had enough of wanton display of racism by K State students in Social Media without consequences. Collectively, they vowed not to play once their respective season rolls around until their concerns are addressed satisfactorily.

"This is what accountability looks like. These student athletes are using the power they have to influence meaningful change at their university.

These athletes are prepared to sacrifice potential careers and livelihoods in order to do what they feel is right and that’s admirable. It’s much like what students athletes did at Missouri in 2015 and at Nebraska in 2016."
 
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A_Slab_of_Bacon

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I'm not a fan of giving guy's like this Jaden guy a bigger platform ... I don't think it is helpful.

You can go to college and be an asshole, and hold terrible views ... and still go to college.

Calling the dude out is one thing, but demanding the university take action is a step too far.
 

MplsGopher

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Hate speech. Should not be protected.

Also, the first amendment does not apply on private property. Hence why a landlord can forbid a tenant from posting a political sign in their window.

Social media could be viewed as "private property" and not truly in the public. After all, you're using someone else's property to get your (hateful) message out, the software platform and also the hardware servers.
 

MplsGopher

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I'm not a fan of giving guy's like this Jaden guy a bigger platform ... I don't think it is helpful.

You can go to college and be an asshole, and hold terrible views ... and still go to college.

Calling the dude out is one thing, but demanding the university take action is a step too far.
K-State can also determine that he violated the student code of conduct, and expel him.

I hope they do.

Send a message: hatred is not tolerated here.
 

KoolAid

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I spent about an hour reading about this situation yesterday...it’s just ugly.

I’m almost afraid to say anything bad about this kid for the fear that he and his “well-to-do” family will come after me legally. But if you scroll through his twitter feed, it’ll tell you all you need to know about him. Instead of apologizing for his insensitive remark, he’s gone the other direction
 

MinneStoa

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K-State can also determine that he violated the student code of conduct, and expel him.

I hope they do.

Send a message: hatred is not tolerated here.
At public universities, student codes of conduct do not--and cannot--trump freedom of speech.

Many people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is and is not covered under the First Amendment (including an upsetting number of posters on this forum). This is a pretty clear case where poster is an a-hole, and should be judged harshly by the court of public opinion--but his statement is not harassment or threatening and he should not be expelled for it.
 

Some guy

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At public universities, student codes of conduct do not--and cannot--trump freedom of speech.

Many people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is and is not covered under the First Amendment (including an upsetting number of posters on this forum). This is a pretty clear case where poster is an a-hole, and should be judged harshly by the court of public opinion--but his statement is not harassment or threatening and he should not be expelled for it.
Yeah I’m not sure how he could be expelled for making a bad joke.
 

DMB123

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Yeah I’m not sure how he could be expelled for making a bad joke.
Exactly. Was the tweet insensitive? Absolutely. Was it distasteful? Even more so. Was it racist? Absolutely not. Just a terrible tone deaf joke, and he’ll suffer in the public court of opinion, as he should. Expelled from his university though? That’s going too far.
 

Some guy

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Exactly. Was the tweet insensitive? Absolutely. Was it distasteful? Even more so. Was it racist? Absolutely not. Just a terrible tone deaf joke, and he’ll suffer in the public court of opinion, as he should. Expelled from his university though? That’s going too far.
Especially a public university
 

Urbandale

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At public universities, student codes of conduct do not--and cannot--trump freedom of speech.

Many people have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is and is not covered under the First Amendment (including an upsetting number of posters on this forum). This is a pretty clear case where poster is an a-hole, and should be judged harshly by the court of public opinion--but his statement is not harassment or threatening and he should not be expelled for it.
No matter if he is expelled or not, this student's First Amendment rights are not being abridged. He has not been arrested. He is not been clapped in chains and hauled away. He is not facing governmental consequences from his actions.

He has been awarded, and is exercising, all of his First Amendment rights.

This has nothing to do with his continued enrollment at KSU. There is no fundamental right to attend a school. You may land on one side or the other as far as whether he should be dismissed or not, and certainly there are arguments to be made for both. But his rights remain intact.
 

MennoSota

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Hate speech. Should not be protected.

Also, the first amendment does not apply on private property. Hence why a landlord can forbid a tenant from posting a political sign in their window.

Social media could be viewed as "private property" and not truly in the public. After all, you're using someone else's property to get your (hateful) message out, the software platform and also the hardware servers.
Explain the hate in this statement:

Congratulations to George Floyd on being drug free for an entire month!
— Jaden McNeil (@McNeilJaden) June 25, 2020


You must read "hate" into the sentence, but the sentence, in and of itself, is not hate.

In this country, everyone has the right to freedom of speech. Conversely, everyone has the right to condemn what you say.

If the K-State players think Jaden McNeil is wrong, they can collectively condemn it. If they refuse to do what their scholarship requires from them, then K-State has legal reason to remove their scholarship and they can pay their own way through college.

There are consequences for our actions at many levels.
 

#2Gopher

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Explain the hate in this statement:

Congratulations to George Floyd on being drug free for an entire month!
— Jaden McNeil (@McNeilJaden) June 25, 2020


You must read "hate" into the sentence, but the sentence, in and of itself, is not hate.

In this country, everyone has the right to freedom of speech. Conversely, everyone has the right to condemn what you say.

If the K-State players think Jaden McNeil is wrong, they can collectively condemn it. If they refuse to do what their scholarship requires from them, then K-State has legal reason to remove their scholarship and they can pay their own way through college.

There are consequences for our actions at many levels.
You clearly don't get it either. One thing you did say is true though. "In this county, everyone.... what you say." Our country is be divided more so every day due to the conduct of Trump, the police (clearly not peace officers), and others.
 

Some guy

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No matter if he is expelled or not, this student's First Amendment rights are not being abridged. He has not been arrested. He is not been clapped in chains and hauled away. He is not facing governmental consequences from his actions.

He has been awarded, and is exercising, all of his First Amendment rights.

This has nothing to do with his continued enrollment at KSU. There is no fundamental right to attend a school. You may land on one side or the other as far as whether he should be dismissed or not, and certainly there are arguments to be made for both. But his rights remain intact.
Logically I suppose you believe public colleges can the outlaw any kind of speech they deem as proper policy and then expel the student who violates that policy?
 

hungan1

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Is it a violation of the student code of conduct that applies to all students that will get him expelled? Should colleges start monitoring complaints about student social media content?
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Is it a violation of the student code of conduct that applies to all students that will get him expelled? Should colleges start monitoring complaints about student social media content?

furiously checks hungman1's twitter account.....

Damn it ... just wholesome furry cosplay ... not against the code of conduct!
 

MinneStoa

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No matter if he is expelled or not, this student's First Amendment rights are not being abridged. He has not been arrested. He is not been clapped in chains and hauled away. He is not facing governmental consequences from his actions.
If he were to be expelled from a public university because of his tweet, that's 100% a governmental consequence from his actions. If he attended a private school and was expelled, it's 100% not a governmental action. KSU is a public school.
 

Com_Cool

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Let me preface by saying, I'm not trying to be contradictory. I'm just trying to better understand the first amendment. When I read it, it seems to basically say congress can't pass laws that restrict free speech. Now if he were being charged with a crime, it is an obvious first amendment issue, but I don't get why it applies to expulsion. Can someone elaborate for me? Thanks ahead of time.
 

#2Gopher

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Let me preface by saying, I'm not trying to be contradictory. I'm just trying to better understand the first amendment. When I read it, it seems to basically say congress can't pass laws that restrict free speech. Now if he were being charged with a crime, it is an obvious first amendment issue, but I don't get why it applies to expulsion. Can someone elaborate for me? Thanks ahead of time.
Two words. Common sense.
 

MinneStoa

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Let me preface by saying, I'm not trying to be contradictory. I'm just trying to better understand the first amendment. When I read it, it seems to basically say congress can't pass laws that restrict free speech. Now if he were being charged with a crime, it is an obvious first amendment issue, but I don't get why it applies to expulsion. Can someone elaborate for me? Thanks ahead of time.
Like many things with the Constitution, present-day interpretation comes from 200+ years of legal precedent. As it relates to speech within the public education space, much of the precedent has been set in the past 60 years.

 

Com_Cool

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Like many things with the Constitution, present-day interpretation comes from 200+ years of legal precedent. As it relates to speech within the public education space, much of the precedent has been set in the past 60 years.

Thank you! The wiki explains it well. Much appreciated!
 

Livingat45north

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Hate speech. Should not be protected.

Also, the first amendment does not apply on private property. Hence why a landlord can forbid a tenant from posting a political sign in their window.

Social media could be viewed as "private property" and not truly in the public. After all, you're using someone else's property to get your (hateful) message out, the software platform and also the hardware servers.
You've advocated for killing someone because they're a conservative that agrees with Trump. You've even said how it should be done, with a long knife. Advocating for killing someone because they have a different political view is clearly hate speech. Are you going to practice what you preach and ban yourself forever from Gopherhole, or does your stated rule just apply to other people and not you?
 

GoldenHerbs

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He followed up the initial "joke" tweet with another saying Floyd died from a drug overdose not the cop. I cant feel sorry for this prick, now hes playing the victim on Twitter, secretly loving the attention conservatives are giving him over the backlash.
 

GopherGuy8

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You clearly don't get it either. One thing you did say is true though. "In this county, everyone.... what you say." Our country is be divided more so every day due to the conduct of Trump, the police (clearly not peace officers), and others.
You complain about the country being devided and then write posts that are divisive.? Your showing your true colors. Is Trump and the right divisive? YES. Is Biden and the left equally divisive? YES. Not a one way road, takes both sides.
 

Livingat45north

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Tulane had a situation like this years ago, and the Chancellor responded with a statement along the lines of, "I totally disagree with what [the person] said, but completely defend her right to say it." And went on to explain why universities need to be a place where differing viewpoints are presented and debated, not censored and banished. That's what they implemented (at least back then) at their private university. Let's see how K-State responds. There are a lot of other universities watching to see what precedence gets set.
 

Gopher_Dog

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You complain about the country being devided and then write posts that are divisive.? Your showing your true colors. Is Trump and the right divisive? YES. Is Biden and the left equally divisive? YES. Not a one way road, takes both sides.
If you listen to Trump and Biden and feel they are equally divisive...you might want to get your hearing checked
 

highwayman

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You clearly don't get it either. One thing you did say is true though. "In this county, everyone.... what you say." Our country is be divided more so every day due to the conduct of Trump, the police (clearly not peace officers), and others.
...like...you.
 

builtbadgers

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If you listen to Trump and Biden and feel they are equally divisive...you might want to get your hearing checked
Agree. As someone who is a moderate liberal i have never enjoyed Trump, especially how he delivers a message. Biden is not as equally divisive but in my opinion he is not the voice of the party, the fringe is, the ones who tell you if you do not support BLM across the board, you are a racist. Also come to despise how liberal elites have destroyed colleges by teaching people what to think instead of how to think. Confident that the conservatives would be at least of destructive preaching Dogma and myth. There are not any statesman anymore. It is a shouting contest with insults, zero listening and even less exchange of ideas.
 

hungan1

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Agree. As someone who is a moderate liberal i have never enjoyed Trump, especially how he delivers a message. Biden is not as equally divisive but in my opinion he is not the voice of the party, the fringe is, the ones who tell you if you do not support BLM across the board, you are a racist. Also come to despise how liberal elites have destroyed colleges by teaching people what to think instead of how to think. Confident that the conservatives would be at least of destructive preaching Dogma and myth. There are not any statesman anymore. It is a shouting contest with insults, zero listening and even less exchange of ideas.
Like Dr. Don used to famously say here, There are so many experts with so little expertise.

Back to the K State thread, will there be another landmark legal case in the making about the limits of free speech on social media and the boundaries of university code of conduct enforcement?

This does not pertain directly to the McNiel kid, but in general. Does K State have the right to expel a student who have published offensive racist diatribe on social media? That is, if such behavior inside or outside the boundaries of the university is clearly spelled out in the Student Code of Conduct as grounds for expulsion. I don't know if the cases that are on the Wikipedia article will cover this.
 

GopherGuy8

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If you listen to Trump and Biden and feel they are equally divisive...you might want to get your hearing checked
Check your eyes because that's not what I said. Trump and the right, Biden and the left. Just said the two because they are both the "leaders" of each party right now.
Also I would say that the media might be the biggest catalyst for the growing divide.
 
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