Judge drops 3rd degree murder charge against Chauvin

forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
1,633
Reaction score
619
Points
113
You're severely underestimating the ego of high-powered lawyers. He wants this, he wants to be the one to get the convictions. It's personal for him (as it should be).
Possibly. But he’s not really a high powered attorney in his current position, or his previous position, the way you’re alluding to. He’s an elected official, and normally their goal is either get more power (I.e. higher office) the next election cycle, or retain their seat in the next election. The best way to retain your seat in MN if you’re a democrat, is just keep your head down and don’t make waves. Unseating an incumbent with a D after their name is hard. Yes, AG is non-partisan, but everybody knows what Ellison is. Look at Klobuchar- her record has come back to bite her in the ass. The less high profile cases they have, the less likely they have a “black mark” on their record to be held against them in future endeavors.

And yes, they want convictions, but I believe many cases have plea deals offered. This case will cost a ton of money, and take a lot of resources, and may still result in rioting. The easy way out is a plea deal agreed to by the feds, not the state. The state saves a ton of money, and can sit back and blame the feds for being racist, not them.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
51,322
Reaction score
8,730
Points
113
Chauvin was ready to plead guilty to third degree murder three days after George Floyd died. Bill Barr nixed it. WTF?
I think this would have been good...

It would have saved a lot of heartache. But it's Lyin' Bill Barr, so I'm sure he had his "reasons."
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
51,322
Reaction score
8,730
Points
113
Didn't see this anywhere else, but the NYT, AP and Strib just nuked the Chauvin trial.



This destroys whatever small chance there was for a fair trial. This is 1st year law school inadmissible evidence that the defense can point to for literally every juror who can read. They are trying to put the genie back in the bottle by hiding it now and apparently it's working.

If it is determined that someone from the prosecution leaked it, the case will be dismissed because of prosecutorial misconduct. That said, it would be likely that this is the case, as it would be massively stupid of them.
Are you suggesting the NYT shouldn't have reported it?
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
51,322
Reaction score
8,730
Points
113
Don't you remember how upset the public was when he was only charged with 3rd degree murder to start? I rememeber listening to many lawyers on the radio explaining why that was all they could do for now, but that 2nd degree charges would likely follow. If Barr would have taken this out of Ellison's hands and accepted a 3rd degree plea just 3-days after it happened it absolutely would have caused as much if not more anger, rioting, and distruction. I can see Howie's posts now.
BS. Him being in jail for years would have gone a long way to quelling the anger. That's different from that being the starting point in charging him.

I also love that you're so obsessed that you bring me up for no reason in a thread I hadn't even posted in.
 

CurveballJesus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
1,427
Reaction score
172
Points
63
Are you suggesting the NYT shouldn't have reported it?
Yeah, that would have been better. Now the reporter is potentially looking at being held in contempt if he is brought before the judge and refuses to disclose his source. Friedberg was great on Barriero breaking this down yesterday
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
51,322
Reaction score
8,730
Points
113
Yeah, that would have been better. Now the reporter is potentially looking at being held in contempt if he is brought before the judge and refuses to disclose his source. Friedberg was great on Barriero breaking this down yesterday
I think anyone would have reported it. And the Star Tribune/AP are hardly doing anything wrong by sharing it. There will still be a trial unless there's another plea deal.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
6,055
Reaction score
2,935
Points
113
Don't you remember how upset the public was when he was only charged with 3rd degree murder to start? I rememeber listening to many lawyers on the radio explaining why that was all they could do for now, but that 2nd degree charges would likely follow. If Barr would have taken this out of Ellison's hands and accepted a 3rd degree plea just 3-days after it happened it absolutely would have caused as much if not more anger, rioting, and distruction. I can see Howie's posts now.
Possibly...

I remember there was talk of how 3rd degree doesn't fit the crime and it would actually be second. It was more about hiw 3rd doesn't make sense based on what third degree is.

What happens if he gets off or there is a hung jury?
 

Spoofin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
18,634
Reaction score
3,593
Points
113
BS. Him being in jail for years would have gone a long way to quelling the anger. That's different from that being the starting point in charging him.

I also love that you're so obsessed that you bring me up for no reason in a thread I hadn't even posted in.
I call BS on your BS claim. You don’t remember that time very well, apparently. You also know you would have tore into “Lyin Bill Barr” like you always do.
 

Spoofin

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
18,634
Reaction score
3,593
Points
113
Possibly...

I remember there was talk of how 3rd degree doesn't fit the crime and it would actually be second. It was more about hiw 3rd doesn't make sense based on what third degree is.

What happens if he gets off or there is a hung jury?
That would be awful in every possible way. Hindsight tho - I agree with curveball that doing so at the time would have made things worse.
 

Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
46,924
Reaction score
2,706
Points
113
Chauvin said he would plead guilty to 3rd degree murder charges 3 days after the event. Part of his request was that he be granted immunity from civil rights charges, meaning that Barr had to sign off on it. Barr declined. No deal happened.

The fact that he was willing to plead guilty is obviously damning to his case. However, evidence of plea negotiations is on it's face inadmissible. Because this story has leaked, every potential juror now has the knowledge that the defendant has already effectively confessed. Finding a pool of jurors who don't know this will be really difficult, if not impossible to find now.

Put another way, if someone had brought this up in court, it most likely would have resulted in a mistrial. Can't put that cat back in the bag by telling jurors to disregard it.
Gotcha. Was it leaked innocently? To smear Barr and Trump? Or some other reason?
 

Section2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
46,924
Reaction score
2,706
Points
113
The best outcome is justice. The worst outcome is mob rule. If the facts point to innocence, as I think they probably do, definitely on the murder charge, then it’s best if he’s acquitted. We don’t acquiesce to mobs in this country. We didn’t on Jan 6, and we shouldn’t now. Shame on everyone hoping for an outcome that will placate the mob.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
6,055
Reaction score
2,935
Points
113
I call BS on your BS claim. You don’t remember that time very well, apparently. You also know you would have tore into “Lyin Bill Barr” like you always do.
Well I tore into them at the time when they announced the Big News conference, then it was delayed and when it finally happened they said nothing.

I honestly don't think I would have criticised a third degree murder guilty plea. Just imagine how many millions, probably many tens of millions this trial will cost to prosecute and for the security required. Its going to be a shitshow I think.
 

GopherJake

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
17,727
Reaction score
1,482
Points
113
Just imagine how many millions, probably many tens of millions this trial will cost to prosecute and for the security required. Its going to be a shitshow I think.
That's where hanging in the public square comes in handy. Quick and easy.
 

Wally

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
6,055
Reaction score
2,935
Points
113
That's where hanging in the public square comes in handy. Quick and easy.
No, but the punishment for third degree murder seems about right to me for this case. I don't think society sees a meaningful benefit to go thru all this to get to a second degree charge. Could be wrong, its just my opinion.
 

CurveballJesus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 10, 2012
Messages
1,427
Reaction score
172
Points
63
It's starting. This is a much bigger deal than is being let on. This is not standard "file to dismiss" at the start of every case. So far it doesn't look like the defense has anything definite that the leak came from the prosecution.

 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
21,667
Reaction score
4,758
Points
113
It's starting. This is a much bigger deal than is being let on. This is not standard "file to dismiss" at the start of every case. So far it doesn't look like the defense has anything definite that the leak came from the prosecution.

All this seems to say is that the defense attorneys have made accusations.
 
Top Bottom