Jackson: Big-time colleges care more about money and winning than black athletes getting degrees

oleboy41

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You have been very quick to label a number of people you don't know as racist.
Why do I have to know someone to know if a view they express is racist? Im only as quick to call someone racist as they are to express a racist belief. The sad thing is that many people are more offended at being called racist than they are concerned about actually having racist views. They think ‘i dint hate black people so i cant be racist’ lol.
 

So_Money

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I have been listening to MPR on Mondays at noon. Great show on race relations. I have heard things I was never aware of, like people being forced from neighborhoods for their race and their property seized. Told to move in one hour. Bank accounts frozen and stolen. Businesses abandoned in the hope not to be strung up on a rope in a tree or simply burned alive, like some medieval horror. How do you make a person whole when their identity is erased from local records, yet there are historical records that prove that they were prominent citizens, productive and consequential. And, it has even happened in Minnesota. Yet, we cannot agree that black athletes deserve to finish their degrees and they walk away from this opportunity! I think it is almost worth paying these kids to finish. And, if they don't finish, maybe we hand them a bundle of cash, enough for a house or a business. We have to start somewhere. As a society, we have to make these kids whole for the generations before them.

In the past, I have said reparations should not apply to me as a white tax payer. But, there must be a way to help make these families and community whole.
People fought and died in a war so that progress could be made with time, I don't believe anything more is owed. But it must be expected that everyone is treated the same and to not repeat the past. Also, MPR is a questionable source, in that it has an agenda.
 

oleboy41

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I have been listening to MPR on Mondays at noon. Great show on race relations. I have heard things I was never aware of, like people being forced from neighborhoods for their race and their property seized. Told to move in one hour. Bank accounts frozen and stolen. Businesses abandoned in the hope not to be strung up on a rope in a tree or simply burned alive, like some medieval horror. How do you make a person whole when their identity is erased from local records, yet there are historical records that prove that they were prominent citizens, productive and consequential. And, it has even happened in Minnesota. Yet, we cannot agree that black athletes deserve to finish their degrees and they walk away from this opportunity! I think it is almost worth paying these kids to finish. And, if they don't finish, maybe we hand them a bundle of cash, enough for a house or a business. We have to start somewhere. As a society, we have to make these kids whole for the generations before them.

In the past, I have said reparations should not apply to me as a white tax payer. But, there must be a way to help make these families and community whole.
Always curious as to why white taxpayers are so firmly against reparations to black folks but Ive never heard anyone complain about the billions of dollars paid to Japanese Americans for internment even though that was far less murderous, devastating or long lasting than slavery
 

So_Money

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Always curious as to why white taxpayers are so firmly against reparations to black folks but Ive never heard anyone complain about the billions of dollars paid to Japanese Americans for internment even though that was far less murderous, devastating or long lasting than slavery
That is because the price has already been paid with human life. A war was not needed to free the Japanese. Moreover, actions against the Japanese were unconstitutional at the time whereas with slavery it was constitutional (sadly). Part of why a war was needed.

For instance, do you hear anyone complaining about giving money for the Tuskeege syphilis study? Nope.
 

MNVCGUY

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Why do I have to know someone to know if a view they express is racist? Im only as quick to call someone racist as they are to express a racist belief. The sad thing is that many people are more offended at being called racist than they are concerned about actually having racist views. They think ‘i dint hate black people so i cant be racist’ lol.
So then I assume you have no issue being labeled as a racist yourself correct?
 

Goldteam

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Always curious as to why white taxpayers are so firmly against reparations to black folks but Ive never heard anyone complain about the billions of dollars paid to Japanese Americans for internment even though that was far less murderous, devastating or long lasting than slavery
I'm always curious why African-Americans aren't more upset about the estimated 10,000,000 who are still slaves in Africa.10,000,000 is a low estimate. Do you happen to know?
 

mjfelton15

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Don’t worry oleboy, I made sure to show my solidarity with your cause by taking a knee during the national anthem of this 49ers vs Packers game. I definitely made an impact on society from the comfort of my family room today.
 

oleboy41

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That is because the price has already been paid with human life. A war was not needed to free the Japanese. Moreover, actions against the Japanese were unconstitutional at the time whereas with slavery it was constitutional (sadly). Part of why a war was needed.

For instance, do you hear anyone complaining about giving money for the Tuskeege syphilis study? Nope.
So you believe that slavery was the only thing that needed rectifying. Not Jim Crow, Reconstruction, redlining, mass incarceration, etc. Also if the argument is that reparations would strictly be due to enslavement, your point is silly. You are claiming that what was owed to black Americans for their enslavement was white AND black lives lost in a war that was fought for 2 full years BEFORE emancipation in which the president said that if he could win the war without freeing a single negro he would do it gladly. But according to you that is equivalent to reperations? Basically then the penalty for rape should simply be to stop raping by your logic. Thats ridiculous, of course, but hey this is America where youre free to be as ridiculous as you want.
 

oleboy41

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I'm always curious why African-Americans aren't more upset about the estimated 10,000,000 who are still slaves in Africa.10,000,000 is a low estimate. Do you happen to know?
Because they werents enslaved by Europeans due to their race with their ancestors ancestors paying the price. If you dont know the reaon why the trans atlantic slave trade was far different youre either ignorant of the facts or purposefully obtuse. Either way your question is disingenuous which makes me wonder about the character of a person that would ask such a question and what you have to gain from bringing up something completely unrelated other than the fact that some of them may share distant ancestors to black Americans. Shall we also talk about the Inquistion or North Ireland?
 

oleboy41

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So then I assume you have no issue being labeled as a racist yourself correct?
Not at all. Because Im not. So anyone labeling me as such is either lying or misinformed. Im also a black man that doesnt go out of my way to make white people comfortable when discussing race so Ive had many white people call me racist on the internets. Usually when they cant refute a point I make with logic. Feel free to be the next lol
 

Goldteam

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Why do I have to know someone to know if a view they express is racist? Im only as quick to call someone racist as they are to express a racist belief. The sad thing is that many people are more offended at being called racist than they are concerned about actually having racist views. They think ‘i dint hate black people so i cant be racist’ lol.
Can blacks be racist and if so, can you gi
Because they werents enslaved by Europeans due to their race with their ancestors ancestors paying the price. If you dont know the reaon why the trans atlantic slave trade was far different youre either ignorant of the facts or purposefully obtuse. Either way your question is disingenuous which makes me wonder about the character of a person that would ask such a question and what you have to gain from bringing up something completely unrelated other than the fact that some of them may share distant ancestors to black Americans. Shall we also talk about the Inquistion or North Ireland?
The slave trade was the black man selling their own to the white man.

My question was disingenuous? Someone doesn't like my question. Thanks for not answering it.

The slave trade was the black man selling their own to the white man. I've always felt the black men who sold their own should pay the reparations. They seem to still have a great business going in Africa.
 

So_Money

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So you believe that slavery was the only thing that needed rectifying. Not Jim Crow, Reconstruction, redlining, mass incarceration, etc. Also if the argument is that reparations would strictly be due to enslavement, your point is silly. You are claiming that what was owed to black Americans for their enslavement was white AND black lives lost in a war that was fought for 2 full years BEFORE emancipation in which the president said that if he could win the war without freeing a single negro he would do it gladly. But according to you that is equivalent to reperations? Basically then the penalty for rape should simply be to stop raping by your logic. Thats ridiculous, of course, but hey this is America where youre free to be as ridiculous as you want.
No, my point is if rape is legal you don't get to retroactively punish rapists when it becomes illegal. That if bad things happen that are legal the government and people are not civilly responsible regardless of the moral impact of those acts. That the ancestors of rapists, people who are completely innocent should not be punished for things they didn't do and were legal at the time, just the same as people who were never raped shouldn't have any claim to damages. It is for the people to change things, to make rape illegal and to punish and hold accountable those who do rape. I am sure you don't like my point, but it is not ridiculous.
 
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oleboy41

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Can blacks be racist and if so, can you gi


The slave trade was the black man selling their own to the white man.

My question was disingenuous? Someone doesn't like my question. Thanks for not answering it.

The slave trade was the black man selling their own to the white man. I've always felt the black men who sold their own should pay the reparations. They seem to still have a great business going in Africa.
Actually I answered your question in the first sentence. Do better. Also read. Slavery has been going on for thousands of years in Africa as well as many other parts of the world. The TransAtlantic slave trade was not the norm. Either enlighten yourself and learn, or admit you don't care to know more because it disproves whatever point you're trying to make. I've found that people who like to point to African slave trade when discussing American race relations tend to do so because they're...racist. So far I've been 100% correct when I meet those types. LOL
 

Veritas

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I have been listening to MPR on Mondays at noon. Great show on race relations. I have heard things I was never aware of, like people being forced from neighborhoods for their race and their property seized. Told to move in one hour. Bank accounts frozen and stolen. Businesses abandoned in the hope not to be strung up on a rope in a tree or simply burned alive, like some medieval horror. How do you make a person whole when their identity is erased from local records, yet there are historical records that prove that they were prominent citizens, productive and consequential. And, it has even happened in Minnesota. Yet, we cannot agree that black athletes deserve to finish their degrees and they walk away from this opportunity! I think it is almost worth paying these kids to finish. And, if they don't finish, maybe we hand them a bundle of cash, enough for a house or a business. We have to start somewhere. As a society, we have to make these kids whole for the generations before them.

In the past, I have said reparations should not apply to me as a white tax payer. But, there must be a way to help make these families and community whole.



My response:

..."like people being forced from neighborhoods for their race and their property seized. Told to move in one hour. Bank accounts frozen and stolen. Businesses abandoned in the hope not to be strung up on a rope in a tree or simply burned alive, like some medieval horror. "

These sorts of things happened in the past, far, far less frequently in the last 50 years. Today they are not only illegal but will be prosecuted. At some point in the past all, all racial, ethnic and religious groups have suffered similar discriminations in the. I, for example, am half Irish Catholic and was born in Northern Ireland. Same stuff in my life time. Jewish people, as an even better example, have suffered the same sort of stuff for their entire, long history. Yet today, they absolutely thrive in this country due to their abilities and their work ethic. As others have pointed out, it all comes down to getting off your butt, stop feeling sorry for yourself, making good decisions and moving forward. Not forgetting about the past, but not letting it hold you down. That a huge percent of African Americans have not sufficiently moved forward given all the progress that has been made in this country is very sad to me, but absolutely not my fault. I can not do it for them. 50% of African American student quit high school without a diploma. What the hell?!
 

Goldteam

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Actually I answered your question in the first sentence. Do better. Also read. Slavery has been going on for thousands of years in Africa as well as many other parts of the world. The TransAtlantic slave trade was not the norm. Either enlighten yourself and learn, or admit you don't care to know more because it disproves whatever point you're trying to make. I've found that people who like to point to African slave trade when discussing American race relations tend to do so because they're...racist. So far I've been 100% correct when I meet those types. LOL
Black men sold black men into slavery here and it was ended rather quickly.

Black men still have that slavery going on in Africa.

Maybe I'm missing it, but it seems the black man should be held much more accountable than they are.

Selling your own into slavery and still doing it today. Shame on them. Shame on them all.

Meanwhile, myself, the racist, was cheering on Oturu and Carr today while not being impressed with the white named Pitino. LULZ
 

oleboy41

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No, my point is if rape is legal you don't get to retroactively punish rapists when it becomes illegal. That if bad things happen that are legal the government and people are not civilly responsible regardless of the moral impact of those acts. It is for the people to change things, to make rape illegal and to punish and hold accountable those who do rape. I sure you don't like my point, but it is not ridiculous.
What about when murder was legal yet white communities lynched black people and shared pictures all over town? How about when black people's civil liberties were trampled over for an entire century until more laws had to be passed to force people to 'stop'. How about when the government claimed a 'black man has no rights which the white man was bound to respect'. Internment was legal at the time too but reparations were paid all the same because they violated their constitutional rights. Remember, slavery was only legal because blacks weren't considered fully human. So your point is that reparations shouldn't be paid because slavery was legal because blacks weren't human. You feel we should respect the legality of the time which again, claimed me and mine weren't human, and not rectify it today EVEN THOUGH the tangible effects of slavery and its aftermath are still easily seen today. You are also claiming that the government which made the laws is not responsible for the damage said laws did once they change the laws due to said damage. So yea, it is ridiculous. It's convenient for you of course, but it's illogical
 

mjfelton15

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Actually I answered your question in the first sentence. Do better. Also read. Slavery has been going on for thousands of years in Africa as well as many other parts of the world. The TransAtlantic slave trade was not the norm. Either enlighten yourself and learn, or admit you don't care to know more because it disproves whatever point you're trying to make. I've found that people who like to point to African slave trade when discussing American race relations tend to do so because they're...racist. So far I've been 100% correct when I meet those types. LOL
Now you’re racist if you point out that blacks sold blacks into slavery. Wow it’s almost like acknowledging anything negative about the black community makes you racist, but not factual.
 

Goldteam

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What about when murder was legal yet white communities lynched black people and shared pictures all over town? How about when black people's civil liberties were trampled over for an entire century until more laws had to be passed to force people to 'stop'. How about when the government claimed a 'black man has no rights which the white man was bound to respect'. Internment was legal at the time too but reparations were paid all the same because they violated their constitutional rights. Remember, slavery was only legal because blacks weren't considered fully human. So your point is that reparations shouldn't be paid because slavery was legal because blacks weren't human. You feel we should respect the legality of the time which again, claimed me and mine weren't human, and not rectify it today EVEN THOUGH the tangible effects of slavery and its aftermath are still easily seen today. You are also claiming that the government which made the laws is not responsible for the damage said laws did once they change the laws due to said damage. So yea, it is ridiculous. It's convenient for you of course, but it's illogical
Do I help pay?

My family tree fought for the north.
 

oleboy41

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Black men sold black men into slavery here and it was ended rather quickly.

Black men still have that slavery going on in Africa.

Maybe I'm missing it, but it seems the black man should be held much more accountable than they are.

Selling your own into slavery and still doing it today. Shame on them. Shame on them all.

Meanwhile, myself, the racist, was cheering on Oturu and Carr today while not being impressed with the white named Pitino. LULZ
White people have been entertained by black folks even when they considered them sub human. If you think that's an argument for NOT being racist then whoo boy are you living in a bubble. slave masters listened to black folks play music, watched them dance, listened to them sing, and even had sex with (raped) them. Cheering for black athletes doesn't mean a doggone thing when it comes to being racist or not. Man I knew you were holding some backwards views but the fact that you brought that up tells me all I need to know. No point wasting anymore time with you. Peace
 

Goldteam

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Now you’re racist if you point out that blacks sold blacks into slavery. Wow it’s almost like acknowledging anything negative about the black community makes you racist, but not factual.
White people have been entertained by black folks even when they considered them sub human. If you think that's an argument for NOT being racist then whoo boy are you living in a bubble. slave masters listened to black folks play music, watched them dance, listened to them sing, and even had sex with (raped) them. Cheering for black athletes doesn't mean a doggone thing when it comes to being racist or not. Man I knew you were holding some backwards views but the fact that you brought that up tells me all I need to know. No point wasting anymore time with you. Peace
Ok, I'll try for the third time.

Do blacks, who sold blacks and still own them as of today, play any role in this? If you'd rather pass on this question, well, I understand. Do they owe anything? No black men selling their own, no slave trade in this country.

Also, do I help pay? My family did not own slaves and fought for the north. I'm not real big on paying for things I played no part in. Enlighten me, how much do I owe?
 

mjfelton15

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What about when murder was legal yet white communities lynched black people and shared pictures all over town? How about when black people's civil liberties were trampled over for an entire century until more laws had to be passed to force people to 'stop'. How about when the government claimed a 'black man has no rights which the white man was bound to respect'. Internment was legal at the time too but reparations were paid all the same because they violated their constitutional rights. Remember, slavery was only legal because blacks weren't considered fully human. So your point is that reparations shouldn't be paid because slavery was legal because blacks weren't human. You feel we should respect the legality of the time which again, claimed me and mine weren't human, and not rectify it today EVEN THOUGH the tangible effects of slavery and its aftermath are still easily seen today. You are also claiming that the government which made the laws is not responsible for the damage said laws did once they change the laws due to said damage. So yea, it is ridiculous. It's convenient for you of course, but it's illogical
Curious why I should pay the price for what white people did generations ago, that I’m almost positive I wasn’t related to at all. Also wondering what people in the black community of today have had done to them to justify giving them reparations. You can’t undo the past, or fix the past, with money in the present. It doesn’t undo any pain. It doesn’t bring any lost lives back. It fixes nothing. All it is, is blacks with fully equal rights banking on the horrendous past of their ancestors (the ones that would actually deserve monetary compensation).
 

mjfelton15

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Ok, I'll try for the third time.

Do blacks, who sold blacks and still own them as of today, play any role in this? If you'd rather pass on this question, well, I understand. Do they owe anything? No black men selling their own, no slave trade in this country.

Also, do I help pay? My family did not own slaves and fought for the north. I'm not real big on paying for things I played no part in. Enlighten me, how much do I owe?
Yeah exactly. We’re in Minnesota. Any ancestors that most of us have more than likely fought for the North, you know the ones that were trying to free the slaves. Also, do we have to pay reparations if our family has any history of saving black lives or freeing them? Does that count for anything? Probably not, we’re still racist white devils just for existing.
 

So_Money

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What about when murder was legal yet white communities lynched black people and shared pictures all over town? How about when black people's civil liberties were trampled over for an entire century until more laws had to be passed to force people to 'stop'. How about when the government claimed a 'black man has no rights which the white man was bound to respect'. Internment was legal at the time too but reparations were paid all the same because they violated their constitutional rights. Remember, slavery was only legal because blacks weren't considered fully human. So your point is that reparations shouldn't be paid because slavery was legal because blacks weren't human. You feel we should respect the legality of the time which again, claimed me and mine weren't human, and not rectify it today EVEN THOUGH the tangible effects of slavery and its aftermath are still easily seen today. You are also claiming that the government which made the laws is not responsible for the damage said laws did once they change the laws due to said damage. So yea, it is ridiculous. It's convenient for you of course, but it's illogical
I made my point and stand by it.
 

So_Money

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Yeah exactly. We’re in Minnesota. Any ancestors that most of us have more than likely fought for the North, you know the ones that were trying to free the slaves. Also, do we have to pay reparations if our family has any history of saving black lives or freeing them? Does that count for anything? Probably not, we’re still racist white devils just for existing.
What is even more confusing is am I owed reparations since I have slaves in my ancestry. I call myself white, but you can't change the fact some of my family were slaves. Now what? I think this will be common with many multi-generational families. You might even have people who have confederate family and slaves...then what? this is all too silly. Treat people well, learn from the past.
 

Pompous Elitist

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In the past, I have said reparations should not apply to me as a white tax payer. But, there must be a way to help make these families and community whole.
I’m afraid it won’t be that easy. There is close to zero leadership out there - anyone that even hints at looking inward is quickly labeled an Uncle Tom by Oleboy types. There is already an enormous amount of aid for low income and disadvantaged. All we can (fairly) do is try to maintain a pathway for upward mobility for those that genuinely want to do that and I’m of the opinion those opportunities are there although youth mentorship to take advantage is apparently lacking.
 

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So anyway....back to football...
 

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I’m afraid it won’t be that easy. There is close to zero leadership out there - anyone that even hints at looking inward is quickly labeled an Uncle Tom by Oleboy types. There is already an enormous amount of aid for low income and disadvantaged. All we can (fairly) do is try to maintain a pathway for upward mobility for those that genuinely want to do that and I’m of the opinion those opportunities are there although youth mentorship to take advantage is apparently lacking.
Yes. There is a lot of aid. Reparations are already being paid, and have been paid for a long time. In 2016, 41.6 % of African-American households were on some sort of federal government assistance. About 13% of white families were. Far more African-Americans, per capita, lived in poverty (not a good situation of course), but that also means that those households paid zero federal income tax. What that all demonstrates is that a massive transfer of wealth from one group to another is underway, and it has been that way for a long time. We can argue about whether it's right or wrong, but the fact is that a system to transfer funds is alive and well.

BTW, Asians have a higher per capita income than whites do in this country. Very low participation rates in public assistance. So they are funding even more of this than whites on a per capita % basis. I am glad for their success, and I agree with the assertion that their kids get hosed on admissions to selective schools. There should be more of them if you just went strictly by quantitative criteria.
 

STPGopher

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I'm always curious why African-Americans aren't more upset about the estimated 10,000,000 who are still slaves in Africa.10,000,000 is a low estimate. Do you happen to know?
How do you know that "they" are not?
 
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