Itayvion Brown in Transfer Portal

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
9,746
Reaction score
2,606
Points
113
Genuine question: who was the highest rated kid from the 2020 class we had decommit? I'm literally drawing a blank right now
I could be wrong but I think he is using Brown for 2020 and Dickerson for 2021. He is treating them like their situations are the same. Even though one was a highly rated recruit from the 2020 class and the other was just a prospect in 2021.
 

hungan1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
10,549
Reaction score
1,162
Points
113
Welcome to the Portal! You win a few you lose a few. Think the Portal had treated us well so far.
After Itayvion Brown's departure, the Gophers are still +4 in the Transfer Portal. They snatched some pretty good athletes. Has someone looked at the original roster of each recruiting class since PJ Fleck got here and determine how many are gone after 1 year, 2 years, 3 years? Or previous Gopher classes for that matter. There will be attrition due to a plethora of factors.
 

Bob_Loblaw

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
12,896
Reaction score
2,529
Points
113
This is a bummer but it happens.

You can't really blame Fleck, it's impossible to have make sure 100 18-22 year olds do the right thing. It's also impossible to assume that every 16-17 year old make the choice in college that best fits them. I was looking forward to seeing him play but on to the next one.
 

Plato

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
766
Reaction score
479
Points
63
I am not a fan of Fleck but this is case of you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.
The athletes have far more academic support than the average student at MN.
Some take advantage of the opportunities and some do not.
All know that bad social behavior has consequences.
Playing sports is a privilege, not a right.
 

Boomtime

Active member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
132
Reaction score
51
Points
28
If there is one thing the loss of Brown and the decommitment of Dickerson has taught us is that you judge head coaches on what the results on the field are.

Nebraska is now realizing this with Frost.

This is why 2021 is critical for PJ. If we go <8-4, any momentum from 2019 is completely vanished. As much as a self promotor as Fleck is... game results don't lie.
 

MaxyJR1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
7,870
Reaction score
673
Points
113
Absolutely impossible to know if PJ should be lauded or criticized. He did evaluate and recruit the player. Now after one year he is gone.
Who is letting who down? Some kids are harder to coach than others but if you made commitment to him than you need to find a way to help the kid succeed.
No idea, but again lauding PJ and making it all on the player shouldn’t be automatic with no information.
Hopefully, it all works out for him.
With the way the transfer portal is working, I think around 5 transfers isn't out of the question each off-season.
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
9,746
Reaction score
2,606
Points
113
If there is one thing the loss of Brown and the decommitment of Dickerson has taught us is that you judge head coaches on what the results on the field are.

Nebraska is now realizing this with Frost.

This is why 2021 is critical for PJ. If we go <8-4, any momentum from 2019 is completely vanished. As much as a self promotor as Fleck is... game results don't lie.
Was the being judged by the results on the field part ever in doubt?

And you really need to let go of the Dickerson thing. He isn't the first kid to decommit and he certainly won't be the last. It happens all the time in recruiting these days as kids change their mind and the concept of a "Commitment" really doesn't mean that much to a lot of these kids. It is really more of a placeholder in a lot of cases.

Nobody should get overly attached to a recruit until they sign, because up until they do sign there is nothing binding them to the school. And even after they sign, it really is kind of foolish to expect a whole lot until they actually get on campus and prove they can play. Because in the end, the recruiting ranking is just an educated guess by a recruiting site as to how good a player is going to be, but the bottom line is that it is just a guess.
 

paulser21

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
1,260
Reaction score
263
Points
83
If there is one thing the loss of Brown and the decommitment of Dickerson has taught us is that you judge head coaches on what the results on the field are.

Nebraska is now realizing this with Frost.

This is why 2021 is critical for PJ. If we go <8-4, any momentum from 2019 is completely vanished. As much as a self promotor as Fleck is... game results don't lie.
This makes absolutely zero sense.
 

Boomtime

Active member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
132
Reaction score
51
Points
28
This makes absolutely zero sense.
My intent is to show we haven't exceeded the level of success we saw from Glen Mason. Mason wasn't great, but he was pretty steady.

Fleck isn't to the "steady" level yet. I hope he far exceeds what GM did.
 

hungan1

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Messages
10,549
Reaction score
1,162
Points
113
I am not a fan of Fleck but this is case of you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.
The athletes have far more academic support than the average student at MN.
Some take advantage of the opportunities and some do not.
All know that bad social behavior has consequences.
Playing sports is a privilege, not a right.

Some kids are bull headed. Unfortunately, there are no second chances for certain transgressions.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
16,212
Reaction score
3,023
Points
113
My intent is to show we haven't exceeded the level of success we saw from Glen Mason. Mason wasn't great, but he was pretty steady.

Fleck isn't to the "steady" level yet. I hope he far exceeds what GM did.
Mason's steady was steadily..."ok".
 

John Galt

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
10,566
Reaction score
1,604
Points
113
Mason won 10 games once and it definitely didn't include wins as impressive as Penn State and Auburn. Fleck already has a stronger high point than Mason.
I’m not a Mason fan, but we beat Penn St in Happy Valley when they were ranked #2 in the country. That said, Mason didn’t have a season in 10 years as good as the season Fleck had in 2019.
 

WriterGoph

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
4,275
Reaction score
3,022
Points
113
I’m not a Mason fan, but we beat Penn St in Happy Valley when they were ranked #2 in the country. That said, Mason didn’t have a season in 10 years as good as the season Fleck had in 2019.

Yeah, that was a great win. As well as OSU at Columbus. I was just meaning in the same season like Fleck did with my comment.
 

Boomtime

Active member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
132
Reaction score
51
Points
28
I think Fleck has exceeded Mason’s level.
Really? Really? In four years... 5-7, 7-6, 11-2, 3-4. That's 26-19 in four years. PJ's first year followed a 9-4 TC team. Mason's first year followed a 4-7 Wacker team.

You really think so?
 
Last edited:

GopherGuy8

Active member
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
226
Reaction score
185
Points
43
Really? Really? In four years... 5-7, 7-6, 11-2, 3-4. That's 26-19 in four years. PJ's first year followed a 9-4 TC team. Mason's first year followed a 4-7 Wacker team.

You really think so?
Flecks winning percentage so far is .578 and Mason's was .529 so they're somewhat similar so far with Fleck having the slight edge. I don't think you are remembering that Mason had a number of down years himself.
 
Last edited:

pharmacygopher

114 Row 11
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
2,115
Reaction score
154
Points
63
Really? Really? In four years... 5-7, 7-6, 11-2, 3-4. That's 26-19 in four years. PJ's first year followed a 9-4 TC team. Mason's first year followed a 4-7 Wacker team.

You really think so?

I shouldn't go down the rabbit hole, yes there was talent from that TC team but much of it was extremely young (the 2016 Empire class).

That team also was coming off a scandal with massive suspensions and players leaving the program. Don't forget the QB room consisted of Demry Croft and Connor Rhoda, a walk-on PJ had to beg to return. It wasn't exactly a stacked football team.

There seems to be more reason for optimism with PJ then GM based off 4 years of winning % too as the prior poster mentioned.
 

btowngopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 23, 2008
Messages
4,121
Reaction score
585
Points
113
Really? Really? In four years... 5-7, 7-6, 11-2, 3-4. That's 26-19 in four years. PJ's first year followed a 9-4 TC team. Mason's first year followed a 4-7 Wacker team.

You really think so?
Fleck had an 11-2 year and finished 10th in the nation. That exceeds what Mason did, simple as that. Mason had ten years to accomplish more, he also got the benefit of four cream puffs every year vs three.
 

Cedar Rapids Gopher

Active member
Joined
Jan 7, 2020
Messages
312
Reaction score
178
Points
43
Flecks winning percentage so far is .578 and Mason's was .529 so they're somewhat similar so far with Fleck having the slight edge. I think you are remembering that Mason had a number of down years himself.
And Fleck didn't has NC games last year to pad the win percentage.
 

MGGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
4,194
Reaction score
699
Points
113
With all due respect, how can you say this 100% hurts the team on the field? According to the recruiting sites he was the best LB in his class. But can you say with absolute certainty that he was a better player than Burns, Finnessey, or Lindenberg? What about Gordon and Willis from the 2019 class?

This is where I get annoyed with the obsession with the star rankings. There was certainly a chance that Brown would have been a future star for us. There is also a chance that he wouldn't have been. Hard to consider this a massive loss when we never actually saw him on the field in a Gopher uniform.

Now if he transfers to another power 5 school and becomes a star, then yeah we can revisit the level of loss that it was. But as of right now all we know about him was that he was highly rated out of high school.
Definitely isn’t safe to say that.
I admittedly took a leap when saying this hurts the team on the field, but I'm comfortable with it and will own it. You disagree. Cool. I doubt this is keeping any of us up at night, lol...just something to discuss during the long offseason.

FTR, I base my belief not solely on "star rankings," but the fact that he was a monster in HS and had offers from LSU, FSU, TAMU, and many others. Add that to the fact that LB is a position of need (at least based on what I saw last year), and I'm confident this hurts MN on the field. Again, no proof of that, and perhaps some of you have inside knowledge I don't have. Maybe he struggled mightily in practice and wouldn't have seen the field for two more years. Maybe he was FAR behind Willis, Gordon, and others on the depth chart. Maybe there's way more depth in the LB room than I perceive. All of that would actually be great to find out. Time will tell once he lands somewhere, I guess.
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2011
Messages
9,746
Reaction score
2,606
Points
113
I admittedly took a leap when saying this hurts the team on the field, but I'm comfortable with it and will own it. You disagree. Cool. I doubt this is keeping any of us up at night, lol...just something to discuss during the long offseason.

FTR, I base my belief not solely on "star rankings," but the fact that he was a monster in HS and had offers from LSU, FSU, TAMU, and many others. Add that to the fact that LB is a position of need (at least based on what I saw last year), and I'm confident this hurts MN on the field. Again, no proof of that, and perhaps some of you have inside knowledge I don't have. Maybe he struggled mightily in practice and wouldn't have seen the field for two more years. Maybe he was FAR behind Willis, Gordon, and others on the depth chart. Maybe there's way more depth in the LB room than I perceive. All of that would actually be great to find out. Time will tell once he lands somewhere, I guess.
It will be very interesting to see what happens with Brown at his next stop. It always sucks when the highly rated guys in recruiting classes don't pan out for one reason or another. Just like it is awesome when the less heralded guys out of high school turn out to be star players (Winfield Jr, Ibrahim, and Morgan were all lower level 3* guys who have played above that level).
 

Boomtime

Active member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
132
Reaction score
51
Points
28
I understand every Fleck defender in the comparison to Mason. We all hope the current HC succeeds. Coaching turnover is seldom a good thing.

Fleck is 1-7 vs the Badgers and Hawkeyes since he's arrived. Having lived in SE Minnesota working with Badger fans and having Hawkeye relatives, football results have been painful for me.

From a purely selfish standpoint, Fleck needs to start winning these rivalry games.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
16,212
Reaction score
3,023
Points
113
I understand every Fleck defender in the comparison to Mason. We all hope the current HC succeeds. Coaching turnover is seldom a good thing.

Fleck is 1-7 vs the Badgers and Hawkeyes since he's arrived. Having lived in SE Minnesota working with Badger fans and having Hawkeye relatives, football results have been painful for me.

From a purely selfish standpoint, Fleck needs to start winning these rivalry games.
I feel like nobody disagrees with your last sentience ... but it has nothing to do with your fist one....
 

Taji34

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
2,503
Reaction score
766
Points
113
I understand every Fleck defender in the comparison to Mason. We all hope the current HC succeeds. Coaching turnover is seldom a good thing.

Fleck is 1-7 vs the Badgers and Hawkeyes since he's arrived. Having lived in SE Minnesota working with Badger fans and having Hawkeye relatives, football results have been painful for me.

From a purely selfish standpoint, Fleck needs to start winning these rivalry games.
And Mason was 7-20 vs Wisconsin, Iowa, and Michigan in his 10 seasons as HC. 4 Wins vs Iowa, 2 vs Wisconsin, 1 vs Michigan.
 

Boomtime

Active member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
132
Reaction score
51
Points
28
And Mason was 7-20 vs Wisconsin, Iowa, and Michigan in his 10 seasons as HC. 4 Wins vs Iowa, 2 vs Wisconsin, 1 vs Michigan.
7-20>1-7. I'll use the percentage comparison some one used earlier...Mason .257, Fleck .125

If I add in Michigan, as you did... it becomes 1-9, or .100 Doesn't really help your argument.
 

Boomtime

Active member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
132
Reaction score
51
Points
28
I feel like nobody disagrees with your last sentience ... but it has nothing to do with your fist one....
Did I infer it did?

Three separate paragraphs and two separate thoughts.

Gophs have had six HCs in the last 20 years. That's a fairly high turnover. The reasons don't matter. This program needs continuity and stability. Fleck says all the right things and we'll see what happens going forward.
 

Taji34

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
2,503
Reaction score
766
Points
113
7-20>1-7. I'll use the percentage comparison some one used earlier...Mason .257, Fleck .125

If I add in Michigan, as you did... it becomes 1-9, or .100 Doesn't really help your argument.
I never said Fleck was better, just saying Mason also suffered from the "No matter how good we play, we never seem to beat our rivals" problem.
 
Top Bottom