Itayvion Brown in Transfer Portal

Boomtime

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I'm relatively new here, so I don't know who is critical of Fleck and who supports him unconditionally. But I think it's unfair to criticize anyone for questioning the end result here.

In the recruiting process, due diligence means a character and academic background check of every high school kid you are pursuing. Fleck gambled and lost on this one.

Now he's left to compensate losing your highest rated recruit from the 2020 class. The likely result here is a "portal kid" or hope like hell that one of the 2021 kids is ready a year sooner.

Add in the loss of Dickerson.. that's two big losses to the "back 7" in consecutive classes.
 

MNVCGUY

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I'm relatively new here, so I don't know who is critical of Fleck and who supports him unconditionally. But I think it's unfair to criticize anyone for questioning the end result here.

In the recruiting process, due diligence means a character and academic background check of every high school kid you are pursuing. Fleck gambled and lost on this one.

Now he's left to compensate losing your highest rated recruit from the 2020 class. The likely result here is a "portal kid" or hope like hell that one of the 2021 kids is ready a year sooner.

Add in the loss of Dickerson.. that's two big losses to the "back 7" in consecutive classes.

You are making some pretty big leaps here. Losing Brown is disappointing but we have no clue how good he would or would not have turned out to be. And it isn't like he was the only LB on the roster. You can't say with any certainty that Brown was more talented than any of the other LBs on the roster.

We don't know exactly what happened with Brown so don't think it is fair to attack the coaches for not doing the "due diligence" on him. Plenty of things happen that the team could not have seen coming, happens in every program.

Finally, Dickerson doesn't count as a loss because he never actually signed here. And as with Brown there is no way to say right now if he was even as good as his ranking. Just because a player is ranked highly out of high school, there is no guarantee they are going to be great in college. Odds are better that they will be good but the recruiting sites are not perfect and plenty of 4 and 5* recruits never make it.
 

btowngopher

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I'm relatively new here, so I don't know who is critical of Fleck and who supports him unconditionally. But I think it's unfair to criticize anyone for questioning the end result here.

In the recruiting process, due diligence means a character and academic background check of every high school kid you are pursuing. Fleck gambled and lost on this one.

Now he's left to compensate losing your highest rated recruit from the 2020 class. The likely result here is a "portal kid" or hope like hell that one of the 2021 kids is ready a year sooner.

Add in the loss of Dickerson.. that's two big losses to the "back 7" in consecutive classes.
Counting Dickerson as a loss is like counting the five star CBs that went to Bama and Clemson as losses. We don’t know how big of a gamble Brown was or why he is even transferring at this point. I don’t know of any coaches that had a flawless track record evaluating character, seems like Fleck has done a pretty good job with that since he’s been here.
 

highwayman

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Again, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...
Ok, you’ve made it clear you don’t like Fleck, and you pretty much don’t like the Gophers in general.

Stop embarrassing yourself.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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You are making some pretty big leaps here. Losing Brown is disappointing but we have no clue how good he would or would not have turned out to be. And it isn't like he was the only LB on the roster. You can't say with any certainty that Brown was more talented than any of the other LBs on the roster.

We don't know exactly what happened with Brown so don't think it is fair to attack the coaches for not doing the "due diligence" on him. Plenty of things happen that the team could not have seen coming, happens in every program.

Finally, Dickerson doesn't count as a loss because he never actually signed here. And as with Brown there is no way to say right now if he was even as good as his ranking. Just because a player is ranked highly out of high school, there is no guarantee they are going to be great in college. Odds are better that they will be good but the recruiting sites are not perfect and plenty of 4 and 5* recruits never make it.
Yeah there's what nearly 100 kids on the team?

You can recruit the best kids ... and some of them will fail at being the best in the classroom, out of the classroom, wherever ... that's just life.

I hope he can get his academics together and whatever else may or not be going on, but in the meantime there's so many kids, you can be sure there will be more of this regardless of who is coaching.
 

alaska

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Again, we have no idea what the situation is. But, if I sit in your living room and tell the parents I’m going to make your son a man you’ll be proud of. I’ll take care of him.
And then after a year he’s gone...why should PJ be praised?
That’s just blindly worshiping PJ. Yes, he does make mistakes.
Heck, this could be the best decision and clearly so...but not based on the information on here. It is gossip.
Pretty sure PJ knew he was an academic redshirt when he made the decision to recruit him.
Really? this is simply anit-PJ rhetoric. If there is an issue PJ takes care of it and needs to uphold the integrity of the program. This is not elementary recess where everyone gets a a spot no matter what. If something is not working it has to be fixed. I trust PJ did the right thing. It was probably in the best interest for both parties to part ways. It usually is. He will find a spot where he will be successful.
 

MGGopher

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Regardless of why he's leaving, this hurts the team on the field. Off the field, I have no idea...but between the lines, I think it's safe to say he would've been an impact player at a position of need. So from that standpoint, this is a major bummer.

I wish him luck, and I hope PJ and staff can replace him with somebody equally as talented. When it comes to recruiting, I trust this staff completely.
 

MNVCGUY

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Regardless of why he's leaving, this hurts the team on the field. Off the field, I have no idea...but between the lines, I think it's safe to say he would've been an impact player at a position of need. So from that standpoint, this is a major bummer.

I wish him luck, and I hope PJ and staff can replace him with somebody equally as talented. When it comes to recruiting, I trust this staff completely.
With all due respect, how can you say this 100% hurts the team on the field? According to the recruiting sites he was the best LB in his class. But can you say with absolute certainty that he was a better player than Burns, Finnessey, or Lindenberg? What about Gordon and Willis from the 2019 class?

This is where I get annoyed with the obsession with the star rankings. There was certainly a chance that Brown would have been a future star for us. There is also a chance that he wouldn't have been. Hard to consider this a massive loss when we never actually saw him on the field in a Gopher uniform.

Now if he transfers to another power 5 school and becomes a star, then yeah we can revisit the level of loss that it was. But as of right now all we know about him was that he was highly rated out of high school.
 

forever a gopher

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Very disappointing. I don't know if he was considered a bit of a risk during his recruitment, given his academic issues his one year here. I would say some risks are OK, as long as it doesn't turn into a large trend. Some work out, some don't. You can hold their hand the entire time.

With that said, his athletic ability has given him an opportunity to improve his future life. I hope he finds a place to do that and takes advantage of it.
 

Rescooter

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Can we put this thread on hold until we know more?
This was interesting - his recent Tweet:

"Thank you to the University of Minnesota, Coach Fleck and the entire coaching staff. I’m grateful for the opportunity that I was given, but with that being said I have decided to enter the transfer portal. If you have any interest please contact my coach"

My comments: not to get ahead of the conversation, but it appears he is not leaving for greener pastures. Following his threads, he appeared to like it here and fit in. I hope he lands on his feet.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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This was interesting - his recent Tweet:

"Thank you to the University of Minnesota, Coach Fleck and the entire coaching staff. I’m grateful for the opportunity that I was given, but with that being said I have decided to enter the transfer portal. If you have any interest please contact my coach"

My comments: not to get ahead of the conversation, but it appears he is not leaving for greener pastures. Following his threads, he appeared to like it here and fit in. I hope he lands on his feet.
Yeah I was wondering what that line meant exactly.

I guess it makes sense that if you're transferring you gotta have someone sorta represent you ... so you pick an old coach.
 

btowngopher

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Regardless of why he's leaving, this hurts the team on the field. Off the field, I have no idea...but between the lines, I think it's safe to say he would've been an impact player at a position of need. So from that standpoint, this is a major bummer.

I wish him luck, and I hope PJ and staff can replace him with somebody equally as talented. When it comes to recruiting, I trust this staff completely.
Definitely isn’t safe to say that.
 

Boomtime

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Counting Dickerson as a loss is like counting the five star CBs that went to Bama and Clemson as losses. We don’t know how big of a gamble Brown was or why he is even transferring at this point. I don’t know of any coaches that had a flawless track record evaluating character, seems like Fleck has done a pretty good job with that since he’s been here.
When Dickerson committed, it likely meant that the staff backed away from other highly sought kids. By the time Fleck realized AD commitment was shaky, I'd bet many of those "others" had verballed elsewhere.

So there's a "loss" in this case, just a matter of how you want to classify it. I don't follow every teams' recruiting, but Minnesota certainly seems to have a lot of decommits for being a second/third tier football program.
 

MNVCGUY

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When Dickerson committed, it likely meant that the staff backed away from other highly sought kids. By the time Fleck realized AD commitment was shaky, I'd bet many of those "others" had verballed elsewhere.

So there's a "loss" in this case, just a matter of how you want to classify it. I don't follow every teams' recruiting, but Minnesota certainly seems to have a lot of decommits for being a second/third tier football program.
Decommits happen all over the country. We actually don't seem to have all that many of them in general. Sucks when a high rated guy like Dickerson decommits but don't think it should be blown up into something bigger than it is (an 18 year old who changed his mind).

I don't think we can really say that we missed out on someone else due to Dickerson being a verbal. It is possible, but there is no way to know that for certain. I don't think coaches rest on their laurels when guys give a verbal because they understand there is nothing binding about it. Dickerson never seemed 100% locked in so I doubt the staff was caught totally off guard when he decommitted.
 

btowngopher

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When Dickerson committed, it likely meant that the staff backed away from other highly sought kids. By the time Fleck realized AD commitment was shaky, I'd bet many of those "others" had verballed elsewhere.

So there's a "loss" in this case, just a matter of how you want to classify it. I don't follow every teams' recruiting, but Minnesota certainly seems to have a lot of decommits for being a second/third tier football program.
Fleck does get a lot of decommits compared to most, but he is still bringing in more talent than we’ve seen in the past. Most of his decommits aren’t as late in the process as Dickerson. I don’t know if the late decommit hurt what the staff was trying to do with this class, but they didn’t add another cb after he left.
 

WriterGoph

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People insinuating that PJ and staff somehow didn't do enough for this kid, let's take a look at another similar case from the previous class: Rashad Cheney.

Cheney was another highly-rated recruit. Cheney was also an academic redshirt. Cheney got on the field last year though, so obviously did what he needed to do in the classroom and off the field to make that happen.

It's a 2-way street with all recruits. Ones with academic obstacles or challenges definitely can utilize the support staff and tutors, but they still have to pick up their end of things to make it work. Outside of academic issues, PJ has been very clear about his expectations with recruits about the program, culture and that he wants to see them doing the right things off the field as well. Again, this is a 2-way street and the athletes have to be engaged and want to put in an effort off the field.

The Brown recruitment could end up being a "miss" if he pulls it together and does very well somewhere else. But my point was and is that some kind of conversation happened and the kid isn't willing or able to do what is needed to be successful in the program that PJ and staff have laid out. I don't think that can be debated really. The fact that PJ is willing to stick to the values he promotes - regardless of talent and potential - can be respected.
 

Boomtime

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Fleck does get a lot of decommits compared to most, but he is still bringing in more talent than we’ve seen in the past. Most of his decommits aren’t as late in the process as Dickerson. I don’t know if the late decommit hurt what the staff was trying to do with this class, but they didn’t add another cb after he left.
Your last sentence reenforces what I said. It was too late to replace him and rather than gamble on a "reach", they saved the scholly. Losing AD and the kid that decommitted and went to Ta&m? were big losses.

I agree with those that say Fleck has elevated recruiting. We just need to see a rebound to the 2019 season on the field to say he's elevated us beyond where Mason had us.
 

WriterGoph

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Your last sentence reenforces what I said. It was too late to replace him and rather than gamble on a "reach", they saved the scholly. Losing AD and the kid that decommitted and went to Ta&m? were big losses.

I agree with those that say Fleck has elevated recruiting. We just need to see a rebound to the 2019 season on the field to say he's elevated us beyond where Mason had us.

Dude, how can you say "WERE big losses" when these guys won't see the field for 1-2 years? So you're basically putting all your eggs in the recruit ratings basket? There are a pretty high percentage of 4-star recruits who never turn into contributors on the field. It's kinda dangerous to be counting chickens before they hatch, IMO
 

hungan1

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We will never know the full story due to privacy protection unless Itayvion speaks out publicly. Good Luck to him. It is tough to see this happen. It is not the end of the world. There are 99+ players on the team that the coaches and the Administration worry about.

As tough as it is to recruit to Minnesota, the coaching staff sometimes take chances on highly regarded players being academically eligible if indeed this was the case. I can't speculate about off field transgression, but the Gophers are true to their system and philosophy.

You win some, and then you lose some. It is what it is. If he ineligible to play academically or because of major transgressions, there is nothing that can be done to save the kid's spot on the team.
 

Mulligan

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Ok, you’ve made it clear you don’t like Fleck, and you pretty much don’t like the Gophers in general.

Stop embarrassing yourself.
You realize you're addressing a guy who used to embarrass himself often before he more or less shut up about P.J. a couple of years ago. One of the truly great anti-PJ rants I still remember was when he got all upset because PJ didn't appear at the state fair to greet the fans. Pretty much proof that PJ was not only a con man and a liar, but he was also a coward who refused to meet the fans. The fact that the Gophers had a road game on the West Coast like in two days made no difference. It was a much better use of his time for PJ to spend a few hours in Falcon Height exchanging pleasantries with rubes eating corn dogs.
 

SixBySix

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When Dickerson committed, it likely meant that the staff backed away from other highly sought kids. By the time Fleck realized AD commitment was shaky, I'd bet many of those "others" had verballed elsewhere.

Pretty sure Walley verbaled after Dickerson, indicating there were still slots open in the secondary. I'm not sure if this theory holds much water--obviously we'd love to have Dickerson, but I don't think there is much evidence that we lost other major targets because he was committed.
 

Boomtime

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"Were" from an optics standpoint. Ratings are subjective, obviously. But this is now two consecutive years where the highest rated kids in the recruiting process are gone. I know you can't lose what you never had, but AD was touted as the highest rated commit in the 2021 class from Day one.

We all want the same thing. It just becomes frustrating from a "fan's standpoint" when the highly rated kids don't stick. The Gophs really need to have more guys like Winfield Jr to increase the profile.
 

btowngopher

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Your last sentence reenforces what I said. It was too late to replace him and rather than gamble on a "reach", they saved the scholly. Losing AD and the kid that decommitted and went to Ta&m? were big losses.

I agree with those that say Fleck has elevated recruiting. We just need to see a rebound to the 2019 season on the field to say he's elevated us beyond where Mason had us.
My last sentence meant that if the staff thought it was a huge loss numbers wise they would have added another cb. Now you are counting Regis as a big loss? He was committed for a month back in May.
 

btowngopher

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I mean I do think Brown is a loss, not sure how close he would have been to being a starter or impact player, but never like to waste a scholarship on a one and done player that doesn’t suit up. Lumping Dickerson in with Brown doesn’t really make sense to me though, recruiting losses are totally different than roster attrition.
 

WriterGoph

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"Were" from an optics standpoint. Ratings are subjective, obviously. But this is now two consecutive years where the highest rated kids in the recruiting process are gone. I know you can't lose what you never had, but AD was touted as the highest rated commit in the 2021 class from Day one.

We all want the same thing. It just becomes frustrating from a "fan's standpoint" when the highly rated kids don't stick. The Gophs really need to have more guys like Winfield Jr to increase the profile.

Genuine question: who was the highest rated kid from the 2020 class we had decommit? I'm literally drawing a blank right now
 

MNVCGUY

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"Were" from an optics standpoint. Ratings are subjective, obviously. But this is now two consecutive years where the highest rated kids in the recruiting process are gone. I know you can't lose what you never had, but AD was touted as the highest rated commit in the 2021 class from Day one.

We all want the same thing. It just becomes frustrating from a "fan's standpoint" when the highly rated kids don't stick. The Gophs really need to have more guys like Winfield Jr to increase the profile.
So we need more .8285 rated 3* guys like Winfield to help the optics? This actually goes against the idea that losing Brown was a massive loss when you are mentioning a guy who clearly way outperformed what the recruiting sites expected from him in Winfield.

And you need to stop lumping Dickerson and Brown together because they are two totally different situations. Dickerson was never a Gopher, decommitments happen to every program. Those guys don't count as part of the recruiting class and Dickerson was never actually part of the team.
 
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