Illegal Immigration Issues

KillerGopherFan

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Illegal immigration is quickly becoming one of the central issues of the 2020 elections. IMO, Democrats have been attempting to define the illegal immigration issue as a human rights concern instead of a country sovereignty, security, border, and justice issue.

Democrats have appealed to the natural and strong compassion that our country has for people seeking a better life and concern for families. Republicans, most of whom share those concerns of humanity, have appealed to our need for the rule of law, our rights to secure our country and protect our borders from unknown, undesirable, and criminal aliens though they may be a fraction of the illegals, and to control immigration legally and thoughtfully.

Democrats and Republicans have largely ignored this issue for the longest time as both sides saw benefits and pressure to accept an illegal functioning population. But the Central American wave of illegal families has complicated the immigration issue far more than a majority Mexican male illegals that had been the primary violators.

Here is where I see the Democrats stance:
1) decriminalize illegal immigration
2) no deportations except those with felony records
3) a path to citizenship for those with US citizen family members
4) entitlements for illegals in the form of healthcare, education (including access to college aid), etc.
5) high standards for the temporary living accommodations for non-citizens caught illegally crossing the US border
6) citizenship for DACA recipients

If that’s not a position of “Open Borders”, I don’t know that I could think of anything that could be more suggestive of it.

IMO, the consensus Republicans stance resembles the following:
1) control immigration only via legal means and methods
2) deport in order of priority, criminals, those w/ deportation orders, any illegal without family in the US, and lastly, illegals that have had significant violations of the law and/or evaded authorities.
3) no path to citizenship for any recent immigrant crossing illegally
4) limited entitlements.
5) functional, hygienic, and reasonable temporary living accommodations for non-citizens caught illegally crossing the US border
6) a long pathway to citizenship for DACA provided that they are productive, non-criminal members of society.
7) a significant modification and expansion of the work visa/green card program to allow non-citizens to enter and exit the country legally as needed for business and employment.
8) Perhaps, even remain in the US as a non-citizen if family members have citizenship, but with very limited entitlements.

What is the heck is wrong with that?
 

GoodasGold

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I need a new roof and some landscaping work. These f’ing ICE sweeps may cost me $$$:mad:
 

Section2

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Imagine thinking this was a clever or funny post.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KillerGopherFan

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My wife and I were out with friends the other night. My wife relayed a story to me of our friend’s daughter who had been in an accident. She stopped at an intersection for a red light. She was rear ended by a car traveling at 45 mph. She was very fortunate as the car was significantly damaged, but she has only experienced concussion symptoms and some physical symptoms that have lasted for months.

It turns out that the driver of the car that struck her was driven by an illegal Hispanic immigrant, who also had suffered physical injuries that required medical care. They were both taken to the same hospital and treated in the same ER very near one another.

The investigating police officers told the parents that they would not be filing charges against the illegal. He had no insurance, no drivers license, they didn’t test for DUI, and they further said that filing a civil suit would be purposeless b/c he had no financial means. And obviously, they didn’t concern themselves with notifying ICE.

I don’t know why they wouldn’t charge him with something, but they apparently feel it’s a no win situation by temporarily jailing someone that is here illegally.

To cap it off, the hospital charged the parents of the daughter with the medical bill for the illegal that had hit her car. They explained that that is standard for them in an allegedly “no fault” accident when one of the patients had no health insurance. They only removed those charges b/c the parents made the effort to object.

IMO, incidents like this demonstrate that the deleterious effects of illegal immigration are very likely understated b/c law enforcement feels attempting to enforce the law against non-citizen illegals that have no financial means and no way of reimbursing the victims for damages is a pointless and costly exercise.

We’ve all heard the stories of accident victims dying b/c of an illegal driving drunk. It’s pretty common. Fortunately, that wasn’t the end result here, but it could’ve been. However, having an underclass of illegal young men working and earning some money without respect for the people around them and that may see little value in life, including theirs, is an accident waiting to happen.
 

justthefacts

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<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

bga1

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Illegal immigration is quickly becoming one of the central issues of the 2020 elections. IMO, Democrats have been attempting to define the illegal immigration issue as a human rights concern instead of a country sovereignty, security, border, and justice issue.

Democrats have appealed to the natural and strong compassion that our country has for people seeking a better life and concern for families. Republicans, most of whom share those concerns of humanity, have appealed to our need for the rule of law, our rights to secure our country and protect our borders from unknown, undesirable, and criminal aliens though they may be a fraction of the illegals, and to control immigration legally and thoughtfully.

Democrats and Republicans have largely ignored this issue for the longest time as both sides saw benefits and pressure to accept an illegal functioning population. But the Central American wave of illegal families has complicated the immigration issue far more than a majority Mexican male illegals that had been the primary violators.

Here is where I see the Democrats stance:
1) decriminalize illegal immigration
2) no deportations except those with felony records
3) a path to citizenship for those with US citizen family members
4) entitlements for illegals in the form of healthcare, education (including access to college aid), etc.
5) high standards for the temporary living accommodations for non-citizens caught illegally crossing the US border
6) citizenship for DACA recipients

If that’s not a position of “Open Borders”, I don’t know that I could think of anything that could be more suggestive of it.

IMO, the consensus Republicans stance resembles the following:
1) control immigration only via legal means and methods
2) deport in order of priority, criminals, those w/ deportation orders, any illegal without family in the US, and lastly, illegals that have had significant violations of the law and/or evaded authorities.
3) no path to citizenship for any recent immigrant crossing illegally
4) limited entitlements.
5) functional, hygienic, and reasonable temporary living accommodations for non-citizens caught illegally crossing the US border
6) a long pathway to citizenship for DACA provided that they are productive, non-criminal members of society.
7) a significant modification and expansion of the work visa/green card program to allow non-citizens to enter and exit the country legally as needed for business and employment.
8) Perhaps, even remain in the US as a non-citizen if family members have citizenship, but with very limited entitlements.

What is the heck is wrong with that?
A few things to add on the Democrat side:
1.No wall or physical border in order to assure that the flow of illegals is ongoing
2. Free health care and in California, free college for illegals
 

KillerGopherFan

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Cnc, here’s an article with facts and no spin:

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2019/07/15/new-trump-immigration-plan-n2550047

DHS and DOJ Announce New Asylum Rules to Cut Out Rampant Fraud

The Department of Homeland Security and Department of Justice issued new asylum rules on Monday in hopes of further curbing fraud and abuse fueling the current border crisis.

New rules will bar Central Americans and other “asylum” migrants from seeking asylum in the United States after failing to do so in the first available country as they travel north through Mexico.

"While the recent supplemental funding was absolutely vital to helping confront the crisis, the truth is that it will not be enough without targeted changes to the legal framework of our immigration system. Until Congress can act, this interim rule will help reduce a major 'pull' factor driving irregular migration to the United States and enable DHS and DOJ to more quickly and efficiently process cases originating from the southern border, leading to fewer individuals transiting through Mexico on a dangerous journey,” Acting DHS Secretary Kevin McAleenan said about the change.

“Ultimately, today's action will reduce the overwhelming burdens on our domestic system caused by asylum-seekers failing to seek urgent protection in the first available country, economic migrants lacking a legitimate fear of persecution, and the transnational criminal organizations, traffickers, and smugglers exploiting our system for profits,” he continued.

The new rules will officially go into effect tomorrow.

“This Rule is a lawful exercise of authority provided by Congress to restrict eligibility for asylum. The United States is a generous country but is being completely overwhelmed by the burdens associated with apprehending and processing hundreds of thousands of aliens along the southern border,” Attorney General Bill Barr said.

“This Rule will decrease forum shopping by economic migrants and those who seek to exploit our asylum system to obtain entry to the United States—while ensuring that no one is removed from the United States who is more likely than not to be tortured or persecuted on account of a protected ground,” he continued.

Meanwhile, Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham made a visit to the border last Friday and plans to mark up legislation further addressing asylum abuse later this week.
 

jamiche

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My wife and I were out with friends the other night. My wife relayed a story to me of our friend’s daughter who had been in an accident. She stopped at an intersection for a red light. She was rear ended by a car traveling at 45 mph. She was very fortunate as the car was significantly damaged, but she has only experienced concussion symptoms and some physical symptoms that have lasted for months.

It turns out that the driver of the car that struck her was driven by an illegal Hispanic immigrant, who also had suffered physical injuries that required medical care. They were both taken to the same hospital and treated in the same ER very near one another.

The investigating police officers told the parents that they would not be filing charges against the illegal. He had no insurance, no drivers license, they didn’t test for DUI, and they further said that filing a civil suit would be purposeless b/c he had no financial means. And obviously, they didn’t concern themselves with notifying ICE.

I don’t know why they wouldn’t charge him with something, but they apparently feel it’s a no win situation by temporarily jailing someone that is here illegally.

To cap it off, the hospital charged the parents of the daughter with the medical bill for the illegal that had hit her car. They explained that that is standard for them in an allegedly “no fault” accident when one of the patients had no health insurance. They only removed those charges b/c the parents made the effort to object.

IMO, incidents like this demonstrate that the deleterious effects of illegal immigration are very likely understated b/c law enforcement feels attempting to enforce the law against non-citizen illegals that have no financial means and no way of reimbursing the victims for damages is a pointless and costly exercise.

We’ve all heard the stories of accident victims dying b/c of an illegal driving drunk. It’s pretty common. Fortunately, that wasn’t the end result here, but it could’ve been. However, having an underclass of illegal young men working and earning some money without respect for the people around them and that may see little value in life, including theirs, is an accident waiting to happen.
Why would your wife need to relay the story to you if you were out with the people who told the story?
 

jamiche

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Why would your wife need to relay the story to you if you were out with the people who told the story?
The lesson in this is to always carry Uninsured Motorist Coverage, murderer.
 

BarnBurner

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My wife and I were out with friends the other night. My wife relayed a story to me of our friend’s daughter who had been in an accident. She stopped at an intersection for a red light. She was rear ended by a car traveling at 45 mph. She was very fortunate as the car was significantly damaged, but she has only experienced concussion symptoms and some physical symptoms that have lasted for months.

It turns out that the driver of the car that struck her was driven by an illegal Hispanic immigrant, who also had suffered physical injuries that required medical care. They were both taken to the same hospital and treated in the same ER very near one another.

The investigating police officers told the parents that they would not be filing charges against the illegal. He had no insurance, no drivers license, they didn’t test for DUI, and they further said that filing a civil suit would be purposeless b/c he had no financial means. And obviously, they didn’t concern themselves with notifying ICE.

I don’t know why they wouldn’t charge him with something, but they apparently feel it’s a no win situation by temporarily jailing someone that is here illegally.

To cap it off, the hospital charged the parents of the daughter with the medical bill for the illegal that had hit her car. They explained that that is standard for them in an allegedly “no fault” accident when one of the patients had no health insurance. They only removed those charges b/c the parents made the effort to object.

IMO, incidents like this demonstrate that the deleterious effects of illegal immigration are very likely understated b/c law enforcement feels attempting to enforce the law against non-citizen illegals that have no financial means and no way of reimbursing the victims for damages is a pointless and costly exercise.

We’ve all heard the stories of accident victims dying b/c of an illegal driving drunk. It’s pretty common. Fortunately, that wasn’t the end result here, but it could’ve been. However, having an underclass of illegal young men working and earning some money without respect for the people around them and that may see little value in life, including theirs, is an accident waiting to happen.
Your friends daughter is clearly at fault. Just ask the fellas.
 

GoodasGold

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My wife and I were out with friends the other night. My wife relayed a story to me of our friend’s daughter who had been in an accident. She stopped at an intersection for a red light. She was rear ended by a car traveling at 45 mph. She was very fortunate as the car was significantly damaged, but she has only experienced concussion symptoms and some physical symptoms that have lasted for months.

It turns out that the driver of the car that struck her was driven by an illegal Hispanic immigrant, who also had suffered physical injuries that required medical care. They were both taken to the same hospital and treated in the same ER very near one another.

The investigating police officers told the parents that they would not be filing charges against the illegal. He had no insurance, no drivers license, they didn’t test for DUI, and they further said that filing a civil suit would be purposeless b/c he had no financial means. And obviously, they didn’t concern themselves with notifying ICE.

I don’t know why they wouldn’t charge him with something, but they apparently feel it’s a no win situation by temporarily jailing someone that is here illegally.

To cap it off, the hospital charged the parents of the daughter with the medical bill for the illegal that had hit her car. They explained that that is standard for them in an allegedly “no fault” accident when one of the patients had no health insurance. They only removed those charges b/c the parents made the effort to object.

IMO, incidents like this demonstrate that the deleterious effects of illegal immigration are very likely understated b/c law enforcement feels attempting to enforce the law against non-citizen illegals that have no financial means and no way of reimbursing the victims for damages is a pointless and costly exercise.

We’ve all heard the stories of accident victims dying b/c of an illegal driving drunk. It’s pretty common. Fortunately, that wasn’t the end result here, but it could’ve been. However, having an underclass of illegal young men working and earning some money without respect for the people around them and that may see little value in life, including theirs, is an accident waiting to happen.
That is a compelling story. Thank God the daughter was not seriously hurt, and it does sound as if she will be ok. Do you happen to know how the immigrant driver is recovering, and if he will soon be able to climb a ladder, hoist some roofing squares and work with a shovel and rake. Lemmeknow. Thx.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Why would your wife need to relay the story to you if you were out with the people who told the story?
B/c the guys were sitting at one table and the women at another before dinner together. There were 10 total. Anymore questions?
 

KillerGopherFan

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That is a compelling story. Thank God the daughter was not seriously hurt, and it does sound as if she will be ok. Do you happen to know how the immigrant driver is recovering, and if he will soon be able to climb a ladder, hoist some roofing squares and work with a shovel and rake. Lemmeknow. Thx.
Pretty sure his injury wasn’t as bad as her’s. I’d ask if you’ve ever been rear ended, but I think I know the answer.

Is it only illegals that do roofing work? You don’t think US citizens do.
 

Gophers_4life

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The entirety of the negative consequences in the story is because the guy didn’t have insurance and didnt have any money. Very easily could’ve been the exact same with a citizen.

The only additional detail, if we actually choose to believe it, is that the police refused to make a criminal case against the person.

While justice is certainly nice, putting him in jail would’ve done nothing for the daughter or her family.
 

KillerGopherFan

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The entirety of the negative consequences in the story is because the guy didn’t have insurance and didnt have any money. Very easily could’ve been the exact same with a citizen.

The only additional detail, if we actually choose to believe it, is that the police refused to make a criminal case against the person.

While justice is certainly nice, putting him in jail would’ve done nothing for the daughter or her family.
Yeah, the answer should’ve been, we’ll be turning him over to ICE for deportation.
 

GoodasGold

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Pretty sure his injury wasn’t as bad as her’s. I’d ask if you’ve ever been rear ended, but I think I know the answer.

Is it only illegals that do roofing work? You don’t think US citizens do.
The illegals will do the work for less $$ because they need the work. Wait a sec...are you soliciting for the job:confused: PM me if you want to bid it.
 

KillerGopherFan

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The illegals will do the work for less $$ because they need the work. Wait a sec...are you soliciting for the job:confused: PM me if you want to bid it.
How do you know they’re doing it for less? Are you stiffing illegals b/c of their immigration status? Cheapskate!
 

howeda7

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My wife and I were out with friends the other night. My wife relayed a story to me of our friend’s daughter who had been in an accident. She stopped at an intersection for a red light. She was rear ended by a car traveling at 45 mph. She was very fortunate as the car was significantly damaged, but she has only experienced concussion symptoms and some physical symptoms that have lasted for months.

It turns out that the driver of the car that struck her was driven by an illegal Hispanic immigrant, who also had suffered physical injuries that required medical care. They were both taken to the same hospital and treated in the same ER very near one another.

The investigating police officers told the parents that they would not be filing charges against the illegal. He had no insurance, no drivers license, they didn’t test for DUI, and they further said that filing a civil suit would be purposeless b/c he had no financial means. And obviously, they didn’t concern themselves with notifying ICE.

I don’t know why they wouldn’t charge him with something, but they apparently feel it’s a no win situation by temporarily jailing someone that is here illegally.

To cap it off, the hospital charged the parents of the daughter with the medical bill for the illegal that had hit her car. They explained that that is standard for them in an allegedly “no fault” accident when one of the patients had no health insurance. They only removed those charges b/c the parents made the effort to object.

IMO, incidents like this demonstrate that the deleterious effects of illegal immigration are very likely understated b/c law enforcement feels attempting to enforce the law against non-citizen illegals that have no financial means and no way of reimbursing the victims for damages is a pointless and costly exercise.

We’ve all heard the stories of accident victims dying b/c of an illegal driving drunk. It’s pretty common. Fortunately, that wasn’t the end result here, but it could’ve been. However, having an underclass of illegal young men working and earning some money without respect for the people around them and that may see little value in life, including theirs, is an accident waiting to happen.
I agree that the guy should be in jail, no matter his immigration status if he committed a crime. However, what is your basis for the bold?
 

howeda7

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The illegals will do the work for less $$ because they need the work. Wait a sec...are you soliciting for the job:confused: PM me if you want to bid it.
Can you get a TV with Fox News up on the roof? He may work for free!
 

Gopherlife

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The entirety of the negative consequences in the story is because the guy didn’t have insurance and didnt have any money. Very easily could’ve been the exact same with a citizen.

The only additional detail, if we actually choose to believe it, is that the police refused to make a criminal case against the person.

While justice is certainly nice, putting him in jail would’ve done nothing for the daughter or her family.
It looks like we view the purpose of jail time differently. Rather than for the revenge factor, I believe that it is primarily designed to act as a deterrent to future criminal behavior, both from the perspective of the perpetrator and others who might commit a similar crime in the future.

This man was on the wrong side of the law from the start, as he came into the country illegally, while millions of others have gone through the process of becoming legal citizens. This situation is not nearly as likely to occur with a legal US citizen, as he was also driving illegally (without a license).
 

GoodasGold

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How do you know they’re doing it for less? Are you stiffing illegals b/c of their immigration status? Cheapskate!
Supply and demand; a simple construct which applies universally to pricing - particularly labor costs. And certainly their immigration status plays into the equation. They are after all, desperate. I don’t consider myself cheap; I’m simply a Good businessman. And neither am I cruel - my workers will be provided with ice water and lard sandwiches at my expense!
Btw have you ever read the story of how the president built his Atlantic City casino for minimal cost:confused: it’s a great story!
 

KillerGopherFan

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howeda7

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You don’t think many illegals are an underclass? Isn’t that what GaG is pointing out?

Regarding illegals and DUIs:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...n-2018-with-dui-charges-convictions?_amp=true

ICE arrested more than 80,000 illegal immigrants in 2018 with DUI charges, convictions
What does that have to do with them having no regard for their lives or the lives of others? Do you think that of poor people generally?

What % of illegals get a DUI and how does it compare with Men 18-35 generally? (Honest question I don't know the answer).
 

Gophers_4life

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It looks like we view the purpose of jail time differently. Rather than for the revenge factor, I believe that it is primarily designed to act as a deterrent to future criminal behavior, both from the perspective of the perpetrator and others who might commit a similar crime in the future.

This man was on the wrong side of the law from the start, as he came into the country illegally, while millions of others have gone through the process of becoming legal citizens. This situation is not nearly as likely to occur with a legal US citizen, as he was also driving illegally (without a license).
You have any shred of proof that illegal immigrants drivers are more likely than citizens to drive under the influence??

If anything, it’s less likely, as they won’t want to get in trouble with immigration police.
 
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Gophers_4life

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Yeah, the answer should’ve been, we’ll be turning him over to ICE for deportation.
I do not support illegal immigration.

If an illegal immigrant is charged with and convicted of DUI, he should indeed be turned over to immigration police.



The issue with your story, of course, is that while it’s obvious that all of the negative consequences depicted by it are entirely and completely decoupled from illegal immigration — none of them have anything to do with immigration at all, legal or illegal — your story lies and tried to pretend that they are.

Done on purpose, to try to sway weak minds with a folksy ballad of misfortune.
 

Gopherlife

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You have any shrewd of proof that illegal immigrants drivers are more likely than citizens to drive under the influence??

If anything, it’s less likely, as they won’t want to get in trouble with immigration police.
Who said anything about driving under the influence?? I certainly didn't right there. I said that he was driving illegally, in as much as he did not have a license...most legal US citizens that drive would have one of those.
 

KillerGopherFan

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What does that have to do with them having no regard for their lives or the lives of others? Do you think that of poor people generally?

What % of illegals get a DUI and how does it compare with Men 18-35 generally? (Honest question I don't know the answer).
And that statistic was the ones that were charged and reported. What about ones like the example I gave?

I didn’t relate that to “poor people”, you are assuming that.

I think it’s apparent that a US citizen, poor or not, has a lot more negative consequences as the result of a DUI, like revoking a drivers license, increased insurance rates, criminal charges and record, jail, impact on employment, etc., most of which wouldn’t concern an illegal.

If those consequences didn’t apply to US citizen “men 18-35”, I suspect that they may have a similar rate of disregard for the laws and respect/concern for others.
 

short ornery norwegian

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yes, there are people here illegally who break the law. There are also people here illegally who go to work every day and support their families - and in many cases, send a chunk of their income back to their home country to help relatives.

and, FWIW, in many cases, the people who hire illegals know they're illegal, and hire them anyway. that is part of the issue. Illegal X comes to US, gets a job, and tells his relatives to come to the US where they have good jobs. If "X" came here and could not find a job, he might tell his relatives it's not worth the effort to come here, because there are no jobs.

Look, there is no dispute that our immigration laws and systems are a mess. they need to be fixed. but, the two parties cannot or will not work together to fix the problem. at this point, I suspect that each party would rather have the political issue, as opposed to doing the hard work to fix the problem.

It's like the politicians who always talk about fixing the budget by getting rid of waste, fraud and abuse. People talk about it, but they don't do anything. the same is true with immigration. about the only thing anyone agrees on is "deporting illegals who commit crimes."
 

KillerGopherFan

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You have any shred of proof that illegal immigrants drivers are more likely than citizens to drive under the influence??

If anything, it’s less likely, as they won’t want to get in trouble with immigration police.
In the example I gave, the police didn’t check for DUI and he didn’t get “in trouble with immigration police”.

At least those police have apparently have given up trying to deal with illegal immigrants.
 
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