How many people still believe?

PMWinSTP

Well-known member
I sense some frustration with the staff, but not real anger. Everyone is relieved to be 3-0. The team could very well also be 0-3. There is a binary outcome to the games. The guys have had the resilience to overcome adversity.

Without putting words in anyone’s mouth I think there is some concern with the bland and at times curious scheme. There may be some concern about the seeming inability to get plays in or be prepared for certain scenarios.

Anyone that has attended practice knows the staff likes to run them at 100 mph. They will put the guys in two minute drill scenarios, PJ will yell out a down and distance scenario and they need to snap to immediately and get the play off. It seems like someone needs to challenge the staff with similar training evolutions because they are consistently slow to react, slow to decide, burning timeouts that may be needed for two minute drives. Maybe there is a better reason for it than what is superficially evident but it seems like indecision,
Summed it up perfect for me (especially the bold), thanks. I keep waiting for the offense Fleck ran at WMU to start to show up in games, but it has yet to happen. Gophs are currently 95th in total offense and 100th in rushing offense, both are behind last years final rankings. They are a little better in scoring offense.
 

MplsGopher

Well-known member
I think our defense is doing well, for the most part. I trust them and Rossi to get it done.

Our offense, I just don't like the scheme. I don't think zone running plays are the best (I like power and counter plays better), and I still can't stand that we don't throw to the TEs. We've relied on Tanner Morgan's arm, when he was supposed to be a "game manager" -- thank goodness he's clearly much better than that -- and our awesome WRs, to bail us out in all our games so far.

I don't trust Kirk C. right now. I do not. I think he is too committed to forcing the inside zone run, no matter how much it is not working. Like Burns said, we need to be using the pass to set up the run.
 

fmlizard

Well-known member
I think our defense is doing well, for the most part. I trust them and Rossi to get it done.

Our offense, I just don't like the scheme. I don't think zone running plays are the best (I like power and counter plays better), and I still can't stand that we don't throw to the TEs. We've relied on Tanner Morgan's arm, when he was supposed to be a "game manager" -- thank goodness he's clearly much better than that -- and our awesome WRs, to bail us out in all our games so far.

I don't trust Kirk C. right now. I do not.
Yeah, I believe if the guys doing most of the heavy lifting after the bye are Tanner Morgan and his elite WR corps that goes at least 4 quality guys deep. The staff might wish they could run it 70% of the time and grind teams out but it's becoming clear that this team is probably best as a 70% passing team in typical game situations.

I still believe because none of the teams on the schedule between game 9 against Penn State are as strong throwing the football as the Gophers are. In fact, I don't think any remaining opponent has the passing game talent the Gophers do. That's a great start on what can still be a special season. We're likely to have a run of a lot more close games and entertaining football and having an offense that can come from behind at the end is huge.
 

hungan1

Well-known member
I sense some frustration with the staff, but not real anger. Everyone is relieved to be 3-0. The team could very well also be 0-3. There is a binary outcome to the games. The guys have had the resilience to overcome adversity.

Without putting words in anyone’s mouth I think there is some concern with the bland and at times curious scheme. There may be some concern about the seeming inability to get plays in or be prepared for certain scenarios.

Anyone that has attended practice knows the staff likes to run them at 100 mph. They will put the guys in two minute drill scenarios, PJ will yell out a down and distance scenario and they need to snap to immediately and get the play off. It seems like someone needs to challenge the staff with similar training evolutions because they are consistently slow to react, slow to decide, burning timeouts that may be needed for two minute drives. Maybe there is a better reason for it than what is superficially evident but it seems like indecision,
Great insights PE. Watching the first three games, I have a sense that something is out of sync.

There is no shortage of desire to win. I sensed a lot of expended mental energy by the coaches and the team.

The players seem to be looking a lot to the sidelines for signals. At some point you'd need to trust the players a little to call plays at make adjustments.

I like to think that the out of syncness is fixable and hopefully soon.
 

Otis

Well-known member
Great insights PE. Watching the first three games, I have a sense that something is out of sync.

There is no shortage of desire to win. I sensed a lot of expended mental energy by the coaches and the team.

The players seem to be looking a lot to the sidelines for signals. At some point you'd need to trust the players a little to call plays at make adjustments.

I like to think that the out of syncness is fixable and hopefully soon.
Do we run Thursday and Friday practices at 100%? I sure hope not.

Maybe the coaches should work on slowing practice down long enough to teach some of the finer points in technique and teamwork. Cause we absolutely are making errors (allowing a rusher up the middle on the FG) well-coached teams shouldn't be making.

Then again, it's not like we have first and goal at the 8 yard line and are calling passing plays so our QB can throw one up for grabs instead of handing the ball to a RB averaging over 7 yards a carry for the game.
 
This is what helps me still believe in Fleck and his staff, and the team as a whole.

Georgia Southern was 10-3 last year with a bowl win
Fresno was 12-2 (lost to Minnesota) last year with a bowl win over Arizona St., ending the year ranked in the top 25
South Dakota St. was 10-3 losing to eventual FCS champion in two of those loses

While we should be able to beat these teams (BTW, we did) these are not badly coached losing teams. They have winning cultures.
Today Michigan St. lost to Arizona St. (the team Fresno beat in their bowl game), Maryland lost to Temple, Illinois lost to Eastern Michigan, and Purdue lost earlier to Nevada. As of right now there are three B1G teams which are 3-0, Ohio St., Penn St. and Minnesota.
 

hungan1

Well-known member
Do we run Thursday and Friday practices at 100%? I sure hope not.

Maybe the coaches should work on slowing practice down long enough to teach some of the finer points in technique and teamwork. Cause we absolutely are making errors (allowing a rusher up the middle on the FG) well-coached teams shouldn't be making.

Then again, it's not like we have first and goal at the 8 yard line and are calling passing plays so our QB can throw one up for grabs instead of handing the ball to a RB averaging over 7 yards a carry for the game.
I'd like for them to slow the game down in practice to allow the players to comprehend the game plans thru a walk thru. I am not saying to get rid of full speed practices altogether. Just do it less often to save enough energy for the game and focus on the mental aspects.

I have never seen PJ Fleck look that exhausted like in his post game conference before.

If they go full throttle all the time, a lot of mental energy is wasted in addition to physical exertion.

The late John Gagliardi was a great proponent of walk thru practices and he was quite successful as the winningest coach in college football.
 
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fair

Active member
Of course I still believe. What is the upside of not believing?
Exactly. Yes, there's room for criticism, but at the end of the day there's no use thinking that it's the end of days because we play teams close. 3-0 is 3-0.
 

TurfGopher

Member
I'd like for them to slow the game down in practice to allow the players to comprehend the game plans thru a walk thru. I am not saying to get rid of full speed practices altogether. Just do it less often to save enough energy for the game and focus on the mental aspects.

I have never seen PJ Fleck look that exhausted like in his post game conference before.

If they go full throttle all the time, a lot of mental energy is wasted in addition to physical exertion.

The late John Gagliardi was a great proponent of walk thru practices and he was quite successful as the winningest coach in college football.
Its called conditioning!!!! apparently the O line really needs it. Gagliardi and his D-3 wins are completely irrelevant to D1 / Big Ten Football. Bunch of lame duck MIAC fluffers on this board.
 

MNVCGUY

Well-known member
Exactly. Yes, there's room for criticism, but at the end of the day there's no use thinking that it's the end of days because we play teams close. 3-0 is 3-0.
Right now we seem to be playing to the level of our competition as opposed to out playing teams the way we did at the end of last season.

There are definite reasons for concern based on how the team has played to this point but at the end of the day we are finding ways to win the games.

The main thing that gives me hope is that there was a lot of potential to win comfortably against both Fresno and GSU but mistakes and chatostrophic plays led to the games being much closer then they should have/could have been.
 

Schnauzer

Pretty Sure You are Wrong
The team was 3-0 last year at this time as well, and then went on a pretty bad losing streak in B1G play. The team improved greatly last year and some are hoping/planning on the same thing to happen this year. What scares me, is this year's "3-0" has been quite shaky, and flat out not as impressive as last year's 3-0 - so it can be quite natural to play that out in one's mind to entertain the thought there has been a regression. I'm worried. Not giving up on the team. Not predicting devastation. But I am worried. Worried the signs are at least there for a continued regression.

I get it the team improved late last year. But the nice thing about improvement is it usually sets the bar higher for the following season and advances the starting point. In this case, the bar seems to have reset to the same place or even lower compared to last season. That worries me. Perhaps after game 10 the Gophers will be 8-2 and in contention for a West title, and we can all look back on all the great lessons learned during the first underwhelming 3 wins. I'm not losing hope for something like that and I do believe it remains a possibility. I just can't help but be concerned about what I have seen to this point - It projects out to 6-6 or worse, and that I think we would all admit would be a step backwards for the program.
 

topos

Member
The team was 3-0 last year at this time as well, and then went on a pretty bad losing streak in B1G play. The team improved greatly last year and some are hoping/planning on the same thing to happen this year. What scares me, is this year's "3-0" has been quite shaky, and flat out not as impressive as last year's 3-0 - so it can be quite natural to play that out in one's mind to entertain the thought there has been a regression. I'm worried. Not giving up on the team. Not predicting devastation. But I am worried. Worried the signs are at least there for a continued regression.

I get it the team improved late last year. But the nice thing about improvement is it usually sets the bar higher for the following season and advances the starting point. In this case, the bar seems to have reset to the same place or even lower compared to last season. That worries me. Perhaps after game 10 the Gophers will be 8-2 and in contention for a West title, and we can all look back on all the great lessons learned during the first underwhelming 3 wins. I'm not losing hope for something like that and I do believe it remains a possibility. I just can't help but be concerned about what I have seen to this point - It projects out to 6-6 or worse, and that I think we would all admit would be a step backwards for the program.
Pretty much nailed my sentiments as well.
 

RememberMurray

Well-known member
The team was 3-0 last year at this time as well, and then went on a pretty bad losing streak in B1G play. The team improved greatly last year and some are hoping/planning on the same thing to happen this year. What scares me, is this year's "3-0" has been quite shaky, and flat out not as impressive as last year's 3-0 - so it can be quite natural to play that out in one's mind to entertain the thought there has been a regression. I'm worried. Not giving up on the team. Not predicting devastation. But I am worried. Worried the signs are at least there for a continued regression.

I get it the team improved late last year. But the nice thing about improvement is it usually sets the bar higher for the following season and advances the starting point. In this case, the bar seems to have reset to the same place or even lower compared to last season. That worries me. Perhaps after game 10 the Gophers will be 8-2 and in contention for a West title, and we can all look back on all the great lessons learned during the first underwhelming 3 wins. I'm not losing hope for something like that and I do believe it remains a possibility. I just can't help but be concerned about what I have seen to this point - It projects out to 6-6 or worse, and that I think we would all admit would be a step backwards for the program.
Well, you can be worried. Sounds kind of stressful, but, hey... it's a free country!

And, yes, I agree that 6-6 would be a step backward.

But in order to finish 6-6, we'd have to go 3-6 in the last 9 games. I know I'm Mr. Optimism, but I just don't see a 3-6 finish in this team's future. I think they're better than that. We have winnable games on the schedule, and I don't see any opponents who have been so dominating that I'd predict we have no chance against them

Look at Maryland: before Saturday, they looked like a juggernaut. Do they still, after losing (yet again!) to Temple?

Did Penn State look unbeatable against Pitt? Were you impressed with Iowa's nail-biter win over Iowa State?

Who else on the Gopher's schedule looks so tough that the Gophers can't be at least competitive against them?

I think college football has a lot more parity than it used to. I think we can be in the mix this season.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

Active member
Well, you can be worried. Sounds kind of stressful, but, hey... it's a free country!

And, yes, I agree that 6-6 would be a step backward.

But in order to finish 6-6, we'd have to go 3-6 in the last 9 games. I know I'm Mr. Optimism, but I just don't see a 3-6 finish in this team's future. I think they're better than that. We have winnable games on the schedule, and I don't see any opponents who have been so dominating that I'd predict we have no chance against them

Look at Maryland: before Saturday, they looked like a juggernaut. Do they still, after losing (yet again!) to Temple?

Did Penn State look unbeatable against Pitt? Were you impressed with Iowa's nail-biter win over Iowa State?

Who else on the Gopher's schedule looks so tough that the Gophers can't be at least competitive against them?

I think college football has a lot more parity than it used to. I think we can be in the mix this season.
Yeah, 3-6 seems very unlikely. We would really have to wet the bed for that to happen.
 

LakerFan

Active member
This seems like such a strange question to ask about a coach in his 3rd year who has won 6 of his last 7 games including ending the most embarrassing streak in all of Gopher sports (and there are still a lot of embarrassing streaks with this athletic department). The South Dakota State game was atrocious, I was really, really discouraged after that game. The Fresno State game was actually encouraging to me: the Gophers went to a tough place to play against a team that is normally good and made a ton of unforced errors and still won the game. The Georgia Southern game fell somewhere between the two though much closer to the South Dakota State game. The bright side was the Gophers were clearly the more talented team (which I wasn't sure about against South Dakota State which was very alarming) but they made just as many mistakes as they did against Fresno State.

My number one concern is the running game. It seems like Fleck and Ciarrocca are determined for the inside zone to be the base from which the offense is built on. If the line can't block that better than it has (and will have to do it against bigger, better front 7's) then the Gophers are going to have a disappointing year. I wish they were more flexible with their game planning to switch to something else and not start ever new series with 2 yards or less on first down.

Big picture I think the underrated concern long term is the quarterback situation. If you are not sold on Morgan, and I am not, then you have to hope Annexstad, Clark, or Kramer is the guy as the Gophers are not taking a QB in the 2020 class and Fleck has shown no interest in going the grad transfer route at the position. I know they have a good QB commit for the '21 class, but realistically the decision on Fleck will be made one way or the other before he's ready to be a difference maker.

I feel like this is the most talented roster the Gophers have had with regards to both depth and future potential that we've seen in a long time. The team is currently 3-0 and, to my knowledge, hasn't lost anyone to a long term injury since Zack went down. I'd be the first to say the team hasn't looked great (or even good), but they are in the position they (and us) wanted to be in going in to the bye with a 3-0 record and a mostly healthy roster. Obviously as Gopher fans we've seen a lot of bogus 3-0 or 4-0 starts from the Mason, Brewster, Kill, and even Fleck eras which causes everyone to rightly have their guard up to future disappointment. Hopefully this year will be different.
+1 If we start 0-3 or 1-2, that might make me question. Surviving some early challenges and still 3-0. I'm not more confident in the team, but I have to credit that combined with how we finished last year there is a chance we have a coach that can actually get the team playing better as the season goes on. No reason to not still believe as a fan this COULD be a good season. Seems ridiculous to talk about bailing on him right now.
 

LakerFan

Active member
The team was 3-0 last year at this time as well, and then went on a pretty bad losing streak in B1G play. The team improved greatly last year and some are hoping/planning on the same thing to happen this year. What scares me, is this year's "3-0" has been quite shaky, and flat out not as impressive as last year's 3-0 .
???? Of the three games.

SDSU and New Mexico ST aren't comparable. NMSU ended up 166 in Sagarin last year. So close game SDSU, blowout NMSU, not equal but not that unexpected.

Fresno this year and Fresno last year almost identical outcomes, figure 3-6 point swing home versus away and Fresno not quite as good as last year but so far still in the same Sagarin range.

Georgia Southern close game versus pretty dominant performance against Miami Ohio, there is some differential there I'll grant you, but I didn't feel that confident after beating Miami Ohio and I don't feel much less confident after squeaking by GSU.
 

RememberMurray

Well-known member
My expectation going into 2019 was a real improvement to 9-3.

How do I feel now, after 3 games?

Well, we are 3-0. In order to finish 9-3, we would have to go 6-3 in the last nine games.

So here's the remaining schedule (home games in CAPS):

@ Purdue

ILLINOIS

NEBRASKA

@ Rutgers

MARYLAND

Bye

PENN STATE

@ Iowa

@ Northwestern

WISCONSIN

----------------

I see Purdue, Illinois and Rutgers as games we should win. If I'm correct, that would get us to 6 wins. After that we would have to go 3-3 in the remaining 6 games, and, BINGO, you're at 9-3.

So... take a look at those remaining 6 games. I think we can at least split 'em. I really think we can do that.
 
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gopherdudepart2

Well-known member
Yep, will never not believe even if doubtful or critical of coaching at times. I'm a fan of the Gophers! RTB and Ski- U- Mah.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk
 

Otis

Well-known member
Like the little train that could, I think we can, I think we can, I think we can. But does it have to be this freaking hard?
 
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