Hong Kong Protests

KillerGopherFan

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Mr. Tough guy?

He’s not backing down. He’s buying time.

The real spineless thing to do would be go ahead a make a trade agreement that would likely assure a good economy through the election, but would continue to coddle China, continue to allow the theft of intellectual property, and continue the huge trade disparity and strategic dependence that China has created with our farmers and some businesses.

This delay doesn’t let China off the hook.

Meanwhile, they continue to suffer some economic consequences, a slowing in their economy, and trying to get out of this Hong Kong situation without destroying international business relations.

Our economic power is on our side, if US businesses and the people are patient.
 

saintpaulguy

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It is an admission that is Americans who pay the tarries.
 

bga1

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It is an admission that is Americans who will eventually pay the tarries.
In the short term it is not showing up for a couple reasons. China is devaluing (essentially eating the costs ) and the supply chain is eating the rest for now. In the longer term it will get passed along at the consumer level. So far it has not. China would love to make it painful for the US and make us lose our will to fight them on trade. They are cheating, stealing IP, they are human rights abusers and unfair traders. The problem needs to be faced. The best time to fight them with tariffs is when the economy is great, like now. Trump wants a great Christmas season of buying so he is holding back at the moment.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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On Hong Kong, what can we do & why should we do it? The bottom line is that Hong Kong belongs to China. China doesn't tell us what to do with Alaska, or Hawaii. China is Communist. This what Communists do. There's nothing that can save Hong Kong. If anyone is actually going to do anything about it, it should be the UK. Making some sort of statement in support of the protesters right now is a bad idea. It would be meaningless & all it would do it show the world the US is meddling in China's domestic issues, which in turn allows China to meddle in our domestic issues, i.e. 2020 election. Better to let the whole world, especially the left in the US & EU, see what Communism looks like in action. Get a good, hard look at it comrades.

As for the delay in the 10% tariffs, that makes sense as China is now talking about buying the US soy beans they promised...again. It also allows US corporations to adjust their manufacturing & supply chains for the inevitable exodus from China when the rest of the tariffs kick in.
 

justthefacts

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In the short term it is not showing up for a couple reasons. China is devaluing (essentially eating the costs ) and the supply chain is eating the rest for now. In the longer term it will get passed along at the consumer level. So far it has not. China would love to make it painful for the US and make us lose our will to fight them on trade. They are cheating, stealing IP, they are human rights abusers and unfair traders. The problem needs to be faced. The best time to fight them with tariffs is when the economy is great, like now. Trump wants a great Christmas season of buying so he is holding back at the moment.
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saintpaulguy

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In the short term it is not showing up for a couple reasons. China is devaluing (essentially eating the costs ) and the supply chain is eating the rest for now. In the longer term it will get passed along at the consumer level. So far it has not. China would love to make it painful for the US and make us lose our will to fight them on trade. They are cheating, stealing IP, they are human rights abusers and unfair traders. The problem needs to be faced. The best time to fight them with tariffs is when the economy is great, like now. Trump wants a great Christmas season of buying so he is holding back at the moment.
So, what you are saying is that By devaluing their currency, China has made the price of a widget yesterday the same in dollars as widget plus tariffs today? Is there any real math on this?
 

bga1

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So, what you are saying is that By devaluing their currency, China has made the price of a widget yesterday the same in dollars as widget plus tariffs today? Is there any real math on this?

I think such math would be really hard to come by because like most things it is far more complicated than that. Yes the devaluation of the Yuan is a contributing factor to reducing the effect of the tariff. Obviously if $.90 USD buys what previously cost a $1.00 that offsets a 10% tariff but not a 25% tariff. Importers view the market as dynamic right now. Negotiations are happening and the situation is not settled. As such, a combination of the possible temporary nature of this battle combined with the devaluation effect are tamping down the price increases by the time the products get to market. There is competition for the Chinese goods and people can choose not to buy now or to buy elsewhere. So for now businesses have decided to take some short term hits or change the supply chain to deal with it. The consumer price indexes just do not show increases yet - so that's the best short term math that you can come by.

If this persists long term - then it WILL bite consumers until businesses can react and change their manufacturing locations or supply chain, that will have to happen. Trump is only concerned about what happens to our country. He has factored in that the Christmas shopping season is crucial to our economy. Trump's long term goal is to win a fair relationship with China, not to collect tariffs unless that is the only way to achieve it. In the end if the tariffs stay on, that will tip the balance for many companies to move to countries (including here at home) that are free from tariffs as well as the Chinese corruption.

Note- just for reference the Yuan is now at $.14. A few months back it was $.16- so that's slight more than 10%
 
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Section2

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It's not meaningless CRG. this is exactly what I thought of
 

justthefacts

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Worth noting that Hong Kong protests have been going on since March, with violence beginning in June. Obama was criticized for his slow response on Iran, despite addressing it within 3 days and condemning the Iranian government's response within 11 days.
 

howeda7

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So, what you are saying is that By devaluing their currency, China has made the price of a widget yesterday the same in dollars as widget plus tariffs today? Is there any real math on this?
It's the same type of math that says the tax cut pay for itself. Get your boots out. The bottom line is that the tariffs are added to the cost of goods being sold/manufactured and the consumer pays for it. Period.
 

saintpaulguy

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I think such math would be really hard to come by because like most things it is far more complicated than that. Yes the devaluation of the Yuan is a contributing factor to reducing the effect of the tariff. Obviously if $.90 USD buys what previously cost a $1.00 that offsets a 10% tariff but not a 25% tariff. Importers view the market as dynamic right now. Negotiations are happening and the situation is not settled. As such, a combination of the possible temporary nature of this battle combined with the devaluation effect are tamping down the price increases by the time the products get to market. There is competition for the Chinese goods and people can choose not to buy now or to buy elsewhere. So for now businesses have decided to take some short term hits or change the supply chain to deal with it. The consumer price indexes just do not show increases yet - so that's the best short term math that you can come by.

If this persists long term - then it WILL bite consumers until businesses can react and change their manufacturing locations or supply chain, that will have to happen. Trump is only concerned about what happens to our country. He has factored in that the Christmas shopping season is crucial to our economy. Trump's long term goal is to win a fair relationship with China, not to collect tariffs unless that is the only way to achieve it. In the end if the tariffs stay on, that will tip the balance for many companies to move to countries (including here at home) that are free from tariffs as well as the Chinese corruption.

Note- just for reference the Yuan is now at $.14. A few months back it was $.16- so that's slight more than 10%
check your math.
 

Section2

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16/14=1.14 There has been a 14% devaluation
Not sure on your math there beeg. 2% drop, divided by 16, = 12.5% a rise to 16 from 14 would be 14+%
 

Section2

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It is meaningless & I don't care what the Neocons think.
Dude, supporting Hong Kong is not a neo con position. This requires no war machine. It's symbolic.


You might note what happened to Iran since Obama failed to symbolically stand up for the protesters. They lost. I don't care I guess.
 

Cruze

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Dude, supporting Hong Kong is not a neo con position. This requires no war machine. It's symbolic.


You might note what happened to Iran since Obama failed to symbolically stand up for the protesters. They lost. I don't care I guess.
Complete bullsh*t about Obama and you know it. Your right wing partisan panties are showing again.


Obama Condemns Iran’s Iron Fist Against Protests
By New York Times JUNE 23, 2009

President Obama hardened his tone toward Iran on Tuesday, condemning the government for its crackdown against election protesters and accusing Iran’s leaders of fabricating charges against the United States.

In his strongest comments since the crisis erupted 10 days ago, Mr. Obama used unambiguous language to assail the Iranian government during a news conference at the White House, calling himself “appalled and outraged by the threats, beatings and imprisonments of the past few days.”

He praised what he called the courage and dignity of the demonstrators, especially the women who have been marching, and said that he had watched the “heartbreaking” video of a 26-year-old Iranian woman whose last seconds of life were captured by video camera after she was shot on a Tehran street.

“While this loss is raw and extraordinarily painful,” he said, “we also know this: Those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/....html?mtrref=www.google.com&assetType=PAYWALL
 
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Section2

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Complete bullsh*t about Obama and you know it. Your right wing partisan panties are showing again.


Obama Condemns Iran’s Iron Fist Against Protests
By New York Times JUNE 23, 2009

President Obama hardened his tone toward Iran on Tuesday, condemning the government for its crackdown against election protesters and accusing Iran’s leaders of fabricating charges against the United States.

In his strongest comments since the crisis erupted 10 days ago, Mr. Obama used unambiguous language to assail the Iranian government during a news conference at the White House, calling himself “appalled and outraged by the threats, beatings and imprisonments of the past few days.”

He praised what he called the courage and dignity of the demonstrators, especially the women who have been marching, and said that he had watched the “heartbreaking” video of a 26-year-old Iranian woman whose last seconds of life were captured by video camera after she was shot on a Tehran street.

“While this loss is raw and extraordinarily painful,” he said, “we also know this: Those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/24/....html?mtrref=www.google.com&assetType=PAYWALL
A little late.


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Costa Rican Gopher

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Dude, supporting Hong Kong is not a neo con position. This requires no war machine. It's symbolic.


You might note what happened to Iran since Obama failed to symbolically stand up for the protesters. They lost. I don't care I guess.
The Libertarian position is not to get involved. I'm a little surprised by your take on this.
 

Section2

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The Libertarian position is not to get involved. I'm a little surprised by your take on this.
Symbolic display of support isn’t getting involved. Trump saying he hopes it works out well for China too just stinks. It can’t work out well for both. China wants control of Hong Kong. It was a dumb thing to say. You don’t have to support him 100% You know.


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Section2

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2 /16 = 0.125

dumbass
Not sure you are in a position to throw stones here. Now, if beeg tells you you’re wrong for 50 posts, before finally conceding in an embarrassing defeat, and then angrily stalks you in the months ahead, sure. Fire away.


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GopherJake

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Not sure you are in a position to throw stones here. Now, if beeg tells you you’re wrong for 50 posts, before finally conceding in an embarrassing defeat, and then angrily stalks you in the months ahead, sure. Fire away.


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Being wrong and admitting it, like I did, is not embarrassing in the least. (Just how insecure are you?). Being wrong and not admitting it is though.
 

Section2

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Being wrong and admitting it, like I did, is not embarrassing in the least. (Just how insecure are you?). Being wrong and not admitting it is though.
It's not embarrassing if you immediately recognize your error when called out, as I do often. It is very embarrassing when you dig in for 50 posts, and then are forced to concede. That's what a huge ego will cause you to sometimes do. I'm sure beeg will admit his error (I beat you to the punch in correcting him.)
 

GopherJake

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It's not embarrassing if you immediately recognize your error when called out, as I do often. It is very embarrassing when you dig in for 50 posts, and then are forced to concede. That's what a huge ego will cause you to sometimes do. I'm sure beeg will admit his error (I beat you to the punch in correcting him.)
You are behind by a couple dozen concessions, S2. Oh, and this is boring to me and everyone else. You may do your usual claiming of the last word - 699,999,990 posts or so short of your goal.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Symbolic display of support isn’t getting involved. Trump saying he hopes it works out well for China too just stinks. It can’t work out well for both. China wants control of Hong Kong. It was a dumb thing to say. You don’t have to support him 100% You know.


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Why Hong Kong? What about all the people China keeps as slaves, all the dissidents they disappear, imprison, kill & all the people killed to harvest their organs? All the girls they kill? Why not insist on a display of support for them?

There's no saving Hong Kong. It's China's. All the good wishes in the world won't make an ounce of difference. The only question is how many protesters will the Communists have to kill, to squash these protests? It's sad, but Hong Kong has never been under to protection of the US, the US didn't broker the deal to hand it back to China & I see no possible upside to making a statement in support of them, or condemning China on this issue.
 
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