Good Policing

goldengophers

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Wright and Floyd also don't prove, or even hint, at any sort of systemic racism in policing. They were tragic accidents. Like a doctor giving a patient the wrong medication, or a person having bad reaction to a vaccine. We don't burn and loot when a surgeon nicks an artery. We don't defund hospitals if a doctor prescribes the wrong meds.

Every year we see around four shootings of unarmed Black people that most would find criminal, out of hundreds of millions of police interactions, and those cases are almost always charged immediately & convicted.
Back at it after licking your wounds? Floyd wasn't a tragic accident, Daunte Wright was. Defunding the police- I only speak locally - was being explored as a way of breaking the union hold and reforming the Minneapolis police department. There is no doubt the Minneapolis department needs serious reform as there are well known ills that don't exist across the river.
 
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Costa Rican Gopher

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Howie’s solution is keep the good cops and get rid of the bad cops. Quite the thinker.
Right, who's not in favor of that, lol? I say let's eliminate ALL public unions. Take away the police union (as well as the teacher's union, et al) and many of the problems with bad cops/bad govt employees disappear. Also, why not insure our cops, just as doctors and surgeons are insured, in case they make a serious mistake? The insurance, if free market based, would make it much harder to employ high risk cops.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Back at it after licking your wounds? Floyd wasn't a tragic accident, Daunte Wright was. Defunding the police- I only speak locally - was being explored as a way of breaking the union hold and reforming the Minneapolis police department. There is no doubt the Minneapolis department needs serious reform as there are well known ills that don't exist across the river.

Jinx!! In the post above, I was just advocating for eliminating public unions and for insuring police officers as we do doctors/surgeons.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Back at it after licking your wounds? Floyd wasn't a tragic accident, Daunte Wright was. Defunding the police- I only speak locally - was being explored as a way of breaking the union hold and reforming the Minneapolis police department. There is no doubt the Minneapolis department needs serious reform as there are well known ills that don't exist across the river.
The problem with that is Black people don't want the police defunded. That type of thinking is the privilige of White progressives, who don't have to live with the consequences of their social experiments.
 

goldengophers

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The problem with that is Black people don't want the police defunded. That type of thinking is the privilige of White progressives, who don't have to live with the consequences of their social experiments.
I'm all for paying police officers more, the job in high crime areas is extremely difficult/ dangerous work. Just because things have been done one way in Minneapolis doesn't mean it's the only way or the correct way. Reform is going to take police input at every level, anyone who assumes politicians can make these decisions from a perch without practical input is misguided.
 


Costa Rican Gopher

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I'm all for paying police officers more, the job in high crime areas is extremely difficult/ dangerous work. Just because things have been done one way in Minneapolis doesn't mean it's the only way or the correct way. Reform is going to take police input at every level, anyone who assumes politicians can make these decisions from a perch without practical input is misguided.

I agree. Black people don't know what's best for them, and many times don't even realize they have a problem. They need people like us to do their thinking for them.
 

goldengophers

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I agree. Black people don't know what's best for them, and many times don't even realize they have a problem. They need people like us to do their thinking for them.
Give us the case for zero reform in Minneapolis, a city currently going through it. Should the Met Council come in an shut down the will of the prople?
 
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Costa Rican Gopher

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Give us the case for zero reform in Minneapolis, a city currently going through it. Should the Met Council come in an shut down the will of the prople?

Why pussyfoot around the horrific epidemic of racist cops, murdering Black people, every-single-day in cold blood, and getting away with it? Eliminate police altogether in minority neighborhoods. It's the only way to really those people.
 

goldengophers

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Why pussyfoot around the horrific epidemic of racist cops, murdering Black people, every-single-day in cold blood, and getting away with it? Eliminate police altogether in minority neighborhoods. It's the only way to really those people.
I've been banging the drum for ending the drug war and will continue.
 



Costa Rican Gopher

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I've been banging the drum for ending the drug war and will continue.

I'm with you 100%. Not sure on how we do that exactly? Sadly many people don't realize that legalization doesn't achieve that. It just licenses who can sell them legally (i.e. people with enough money to purchase a license), and facilitates people with existing business acumen (i.e. business owners) to open dispensaries, while excluding the people most likely to be incarcerated due to the war on drugs.
 

BarnBurner

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Our favorite little runaway!

You could always attempt at showing him where his logic failed. He laid out an argument that Lebron's reach and impact is greater on social media than it is through his foundation. I think most people would agree that the impact of someone with an enormous social media is tremendous.
But Lebron deleted the post!!!!!

All is now well. 😂😂😂👍👍
 

STPGopher

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I can't believe that I'm the only one that finds it at least a little bit odd that for most of this tumultuous 12-15 months there has been virtually no discussion of an improvement, some increased education and awareness, on how to conduct yourself when you come across Law Enforcement. Sure seems like this is a one-way street as to who actually needs to modify their behavior at least a little bit.

Where's the education and the raising of awareness for how we can all do better in terms of interacting with Law Enforcement? I get that it's completely acceptable for phrases like "F'k the police" and "kill those pigs" but maybe we can do a little better in that regard?
False. I know that I discussed reform and other issues multiple times. "The talk" has been discussed as well. Many on here have discussed family life etc.

What linked video is about is how this officer attempted to do the right thing and was punished for it.
 





STPGopher

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I am not beholden to some national figure you invented, I am beholden to the incidents here in the Twin Cities. My concern if wholly this area, I don't get wrapped up in national narratives. I'll leave victim blaming, jury trashing, and perceived statistically insignificance to national opinion makers who want binary divides.
Precisely.
I'm all for paying police officers more, the job in high crime areas is extremely difficult/ dangerous work. Just because things have been done one way in Minneapolis doesn't mean it's the only way or the correct way. Reform is going to take police input at every level, anyone who assumes politicians can make these decisions from a perch without practical input is misguided.
You are raising some great points. Perhaps a fresh voice will be heard. Some residents would even be okay with raising the number of police. What most people that I've spoken to would also like to see is if it makes sense to expand the types of responders to calls.

One example would be mental health related incidents. Why do we expect police to be mental health experts? Would it be unreasonable to explore ways to get experts involved in a mental health crisis?
 

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I’m sure for many people the fear is real. But one of the biggest factors in most police shootings I see is a complete lack of respect. And I think pushing a narrative that cops are just out there gunning down black people for no reason actually contributes to this dangerous situation.
it wouldn’t be as politically powerful for the left, but if the focus was on police brutality, shootings, militarized police in general, we might all be able to work together to improve the situation. There are examples of completely unjustified shootings and harassment of white people as well. But I already answered why.
Though you didn't say it, you are correct in that this is a human rights issue. What is missed here is that if we can effectively 're-imagine' policing, all of humanity (Within the scope of the reforms) will benefit.
 

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Anytime you feel the itch going forward you post this quote and applaud his commitment to inner city Akron.
You ever notice that like rape victims, that when certain people speak their mind they have to be perfect. Meanwhile, others get a four year (really lifetime) pass.
 

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Howie’s solution is keep the good cops and get rid of the bad cops. Quite the thinker.
Well he must be because after decades of complains many have fully supported dishonorable conduct. Do you think it makes it easier for the good police to do their jobs?

What happened to meritocracy?
 

goldengophers

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Precisely.

You are raising some great points. Perhaps a fresh voice will be heard. Some residents would even be okay with raising the number of police. What most people that I've spoken to would also like to see is if it makes sense to expand the types of responders to calls.

One example would be mental health related incidents. Why do we expect police to be mental health experts? Would it be unreasonable to explore ways to get experts involved in a mental health crisis?
I was just discussing this on the night of the verdict with someone who is a psychiatrist at a large psychiatric hospital, the burden placed on police officers to deal with the issues can be quite heavy and dangerous (at times). This person said that some of the city council ideas that have been thrown around (full-time ride alongs, ect.) have been overly optimistic but that something needs to be done to beef up resources and training as it relates to mental illness and dealing with these complex scenarios.
 

Spoofin

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You ever notice that like rape victims, that when certain people speak their mind they have to be perfect. Meanwhile, others get a four year (really lifetime) pass.
“Have to be Perfect”? He posted a picture of a cop with the words “You’re next”. LBJ isn’t helping & doesn’t deserve “a pass”.
 

STPGopher

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Says the guy who didn't watch the trial. You see what you want to see. I watched essentially the entire thing. The defense was desperation (Note: I find no fault in Eric Nelson - he had a job to do and he did it the best he could - he had nothing to work with).

The entire episode could have been avoided with proper policing. The scene was severely escalated immediately by greeting the petty crime suspect by pointing a gun in his face. WTF was that? The policing did not improve from there. One misstep after the next. A case study in how to escalate a situation. Most of the time that happens, nobody hears about it. But to pretend it doesn't happen thousands of times per day throughout this country requires naivety, stupidity or cognitive dissonance.

You will never be convinced, that much is clear. But, it's very obvious that you actually have no interest in analysis. You have avoided my analogy and refuse to confront your feelings. As others here have said, George Floyd, while no saint, did not deserve ANY of the treatment he received that day. It didn't start and end with the kneeling. The entire episode exemplifies why socioeconomically disadvantaged folks are so pissed off. You can bury your head, but it ain't going away.
Not disagreeing with you. I think your points are more than valid and I agree with all but the bold. I am splitting hairs here, but I wrestle with the thought that he never really tried to win the case. I still wonder if all of this was 100% about getting a mistrial.
 

STPGopher

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I was just discussing this on the night of the verdict with someone who is a psychiatrist at a large psychiatric hospital, the burden placed on police officers to deal with the issues can be quite heavy and dangerous (at times). This person said that some of the city council ideas that have been thrown around (full-time ride alongs, ect.) have been overly optimistic but that something needs to be done to beef up resources and training as it relates to mental illness and dealing with these complex scenarios.
Expanding on your thoughts, this is only going to get worse, before it gets better. Perhaps someone else can mine the data/ info. Many of the mental health issues we see are projected to rise not decline without appropriate actions. The problem is many health crisis take time, resources, etc. to figure out how to tackle the issues. With that said, we can't afford to sit on our hands and wait. Short medium, and long-term solutions need to be explored.
 

STPGopher

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“Have to be Perfect”? He posted a picture of a cop with the words “You’re next”. LBJ isn’t helping & doesn’t deserve “a pass”.
You're next for what? To receive justice?

Regarding Lebron, he doesn't get a pass. Those who have opposed him over the years have seen to that. He also knows that he is a lightning rod. He spoke his mind. He retracted the post.

That is his prerogative. Still trying to figure out what that has to do with a Police officer choosing to do what she felt was right even though she was going against department culture.
 

Spoofin

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You're next for what? To receive justice?

Regarding Lebron, he doesn't get a pass. Those who have opposed him over the years have seen to that. He also knows that he is a lightning rod. He spoke his mind. He retracted the post.

That is his prerogative. Still trying to figure out what that has to do with a Police officer choosing to do what she felt was right even though she was going against department culture.
He spoke his mind and retracted the post. OK then - all good. 🙄
 

STPGopher

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He spoke his mind and retracted the post. OK then - all good. 🙄
No. Not all good, hence the Lightning rod comment. He is willing to deal with the consequences. Has he said he isn't?

Regarding comments, and yes this is relevant, has Trump apologized for seeking the death penalty for five innocent people? Has he done any form of retraction for taking out a full page add in New York papers and continuing to unapologetically ignore the consequences of his actions? Seems if anyone got a 'pass' it's this guy.
 

Spoofin

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No. Not all good, hence the Lightning rod comment. He is willing to deal with the consequences. Has he said he isn't?

Regarding comments, and yes this is relevant, has Trump apologized for seeking the death penalty for five innocent people? Has he done any form of retraction for taking out a full page add in New York papers and continuing to unapologetically ignore the consequences of his actions? Seems if anyone got a 'pass' it's this guy.
You are defending the indefensible with LBJ and when cornered you bring up Trump. Huh? Why does it always go that way with you lefties. Can’t they both be wrong/bad?
Good Talk.
 

STPGopher

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You are defending the indefensible with LBJ and when cornered you bring up Trump. Huh? Why does it always go that way with you lefties. Can’t they both be wrong/bad?
Good Talk.
Hah! More evidence of you spinning. Where did I say anything other than he spoke his mind and is willing to except the blow back?

Regarding Trump, it's the truth. Also, how many times has Obama been brought up from 2016 to 2021? Heck, the Clinton's are still being discussed. When did President William Jefferson Clinton leave office? Was he not the 42nd president? Oh I forgot we are talking Democrats, so history applies. With Republicans, it does not.

Good talk!
 

Spoofin

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Hah! More evidence of you spinning. Where did I say anything other than he spoke his mind and is willing to except the blow back?

Regarding Trump, it's the truth. Also, how many times has Obama been brought up from 2016 to 2021? Heck, the Clinton's are still being discussed. When did President William Jefferson Clinton leave office? Was he not the 42nd president? Oh I forgot we are talking Democrats, so history applies. With Republicans, it does not.

Good talk!
Who cares that LBJ “spoke his mind” or is “willing to accept the blow back.” BFD. All justifications from you. What he did was awful and it does nothing but cause more harm to the issue at hand. Instead of caring, you shrug your shoulders, downplay what he did, and yell about Trump for some reason. This conversation has nothing to do with any past presidents- yet you keep bringing them up because???? Oh, because I’m “spinning”. LOL.
 

STPGopher

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Who cares that LBJ “spoke his mind” or is “willing to accept the blow back.” BFD. All justifications from you. What he did was awful and it does nothing but cause more harm to the issue at hand. Instead of caring, you shrug your shoulders, downplay what he did, and yell about Trump for some reason. This conversation has nothing to do with any past presidents- yet you keep bringing them up because???? Oh, because I’m “spinning”. LOL.
Yep! You are ignoring that this is a classic example of the chickens coming home to roost. So, the people that have ignored all of the crap including: Josh Hawley, Jim Jordan, and Marjorie Taylor Greene amongst others are incensed over LeBron James?

Do you think Lebron gives two craps about what I think or feel? For that matter, obviously you don't either.

Speaking of harm to the issue at hand which is supposed to be about policing. Remember the thread title?...

 

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No. The police do not racially profile. They profile people they believe are likely committing crimes. Specifically, the poor. To presume police profile Black people of all socio-economic backgrounds equally is downright racist of you.

If the police were racially profiling, why would they profile Black men, since many largely Black cities see the majority of cops being Black, and Blacks often controll police leadership, the city council, and the Mayor to boot? There's no statistical decline in police interactions, police shootings, etc. In fact, based on the limited data we have, Black cops shoot Black people at a higher rate than White cops do. (as an aside, there's also no drop off in Female, Asian, Hispanic, or Gay cops.). To assume all cops are White in cities with majority Black populations, is downright racist of you.
Show your work, CRG. This has nothing to do with me but the facts. I said nothing about the race of the officers. I don't care about the race of the officers. I can post the dozens of research papers that I found in short order online that demonstrate that racial profiling and police intimidation has been and continues to be a problem in this country.

Was this racial profiling or do you think that a white man would have been treated the same way as this Army lieutenant?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/lawsuit-virginia-police-officers-threatened-man-during-stop

If this was a white man visibly wearing camo, the police would have saluted or nodded to the man and moved on instead of pulling him over, drawing their weapons on him, and spraying him with pepper spray.

You've developed a reputation on the OTB and I am starting to think that it is deserved. You need to try putting yourself in other people's shoes, do a little research, and think a little bit. You're becoming a caricature.
 




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