Good Policing

golf

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It's 0.081 and the analogy, while definitely not perfect, is blatantly obvious. The other driver killed someone (your son, in the story). Chauvin killed someone.

Also, please note, the story is for illustrative purposes only. I would not bring your son into it, had you not introduced it. Anonymous or not, as far as I'm concerned, families are completely off-limits here. I am making zero comment on your actual son and wish him nothing but the best.

I dont see the connection between chauvin and an out of his mind drunk driver. I didnt follow the trial as closely as some, but from what i gathered it wasnt an open and shut case. Obviously the jury disagreed. I am just saying i would take my son's actions into account and would be content with whatever the jury decided.
 

GopherJake

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I dont see the connection between chauvin and an out of his mind drunk driver. I didnt follow the trial as closely as some, but from what i gathered it wasnt an open and shut case. Obviously the jury disagreed. I am just saying i would take my son's actions into account and would be content with whatever the jury decided.
So there are three possibilities here:

1. You purposely are ignoring the very obvious analogy.
2. You are too stupid to understand the very obvious analogy.
3. You are afraid to honestly address the very obvious analogy.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and speculate it is #1.

The trial was an absolute slam dunk conviction, by the way. It wasn't close.
 

goldengophers

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So there are three possibilities here:

1. You purposely are ignoring the very obvious analogy.
2. You are too stupid to understand the very obvious analogy.
3. You are afraid to honestly address the very obvious analogy.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and speculate it is #1.

The trial was an absolute slam dunk conviction, by the way. It wasn't close.
It was an Anthony Edward's slam dunk, I don't know a single Republican in my personal life (I've got a ton) who thought this should've gone the other way. We've got very obvious black white far right consumers and spouters.
 

golf

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So there are three possibilities here:

1. You purposely are ignoring the very obvious analogy.
2. You are too stupid to understand the very obvious analogy.
3. You are afraid to honestly address the very obvious analogy.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and speculate it is #1.

The trial was an absolute slam dunk conviction, by the way. It wasn't close.

Thanks for the pleasant post. You apply a level of malevolence to chauvin/potter that i reject. Also reject the level of innocence applied to wright/floyd. Doesnt work.
 

Spoofin

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It was an Anthony Edward's slam dunk, I don't know a single Republican in my personal life (I've got a ton) who thought this should've gone the other way. We've got very obvious black white far right consumers and spouters.
Careful now, I was criticized for saying the very same thing.
 

goldengophers

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Thanks for the pleasant post. You apply a level of malevolence to chauvin/potter that i reject. Also reject the level of innocence applied to wright/floyd. Doesnt work.
Wright and Floyd don't need to be angels for Potter to be charged and Chauvin found guilty. This isn't a binary black and white scenario. Additionally, Riots=Bad doesn't mean Chauvin=Not Guilty.
 
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GopherJake

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Thanks for the pleasant post. You apply a level of malevolence to chauvin/potter that i reject. Also reject the level of innocence applied to wright/floyd. Doesnt work.
Says the guy who didn't watch the trial. You see what you want to see. I watched essentially the entire thing. The defense was desperation (Note: I find no fault in Eric Nelson - he had a job to do and he did it the best he could - he had nothing to work with).

The entire episode could have been avoided with proper policing. The scene was severely escalated immediately by greeting the petty crime suspect by pointing a gun in his face. WTF was that? The policing did not improve from there. One misstep after the next. A case study in how to escalate a situation. Most of the time that happens, nobody hears about it. But to pretend it doesn't happen thousands of times per day throughout this country requires naivety, stupidity or cognitive dissonance.

You will never be convinced, that much is clear. But, it's very obvious that you actually have no interest in analysis. You have avoided my analogy and refuse to confront your feelings. As others here have said, George Floyd, while no saint, did not deserve ANY of the treatment he received that day. It didn't start and end with the kneeling. The entire episode exemplifies why socioeconomically disadvantaged folks are so pissed off. You can bury your head, but it ain't going away.
 

Section2

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The burden is on you to determine how the foundation hasn't had an impact.
Prove a negative. Not a big logic guy I’m guessing. You made the assertion that the foundation has had a noticeable impact. Shouldn’t be hard to find if they have.
 

golf

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Wright and Floyd don't need to be angels for Potter to be charged and Chauvin found guilty. This isn't a binary black and white scenario. Additionally, Riots=Bad doesn't mean Chauvin=Not Guilty.

Agree.
 

GopherJake

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Prove a negative. Not a big logic guy I’m guessing. You made the assertion that the foundation has had a noticeable impact. Shouldn’t be hard to find if they have.
Logic fail is on your part, there, Champ. You cannot prove the lack of existence of something (a negative). You can, however, prove - or at least show evidence of a lack of impact - or even negative impact. Example: They tried to fight crime by hiring more dickwad police officers. Paradoxically (or not), crime went up.
 

golf

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Says the guy who didn't watch the trial. You see what you want to see. I watched essentially the entire thing. The defense was desperation (Note: I find no fault in Eric Nelson - he had a job to do and he did it the best he could - he had nothing to work with).

The entire episode could have been avoided with proper policing. The scene was severely escalated immediately by greeting the petty crime suspect by pointing a gun in his face. WTF was that? The policing did not improve from there. One misstep after the next. A case study in how to escalate a situation. Most of the time that happens, nobody hears about it. But to pretend it doesn't happen thousands of times per day throughout this country requires naivety, stupidity or cognitive dissonance.

You will never be convinced, that much is clear. But, it's very obvious that you actually have no interest in analysis. You have avoided my analogy and refuse to confront your feelings. As others here have said, George Floyd, while no saint, did not deserve ANY of the treatment he received that day. It didn't start and end with the kneeling. The entire episode exemplifies why socioeconomically disadvantaged folks are so pissed off. You can bury your head, but it ain't going away.

I saw enuf of the trial to form an opinion. Maybe if i watched the whole thing my opinion changes, but i doubt it. Therefore i would feel my son's actions were an issue. And therefore i would have no issue with the jury's decision, whether innocent or guilty.

Would for sure advocate for potter
 

BarnBurner

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Sure is difficult for the lib racists to accept personal accountability.
 

Section2

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Logic fail is on your part, there, Champ. You cannot prove the lack of existence of something (a negative). You can, however, prove - or at least show evidence of a lack of impact - or even negative impact. Example: They tried to fight crime by hiring more dickwad police officers. Paradoxically (or not), crime went up.
Not really. Lebron’s foundations serves about 1000 kids in Akron. I’m sure it does some good for some of those kids. But Lebrons leadership or lack therof can impact a hell of a lot more. He has 50 million Twitter followers. He’s used that platform to defend China and inflame racial tensions. To say that this negative impact is negated by giving food, fun outings, and some college scholarships I think is a pretty dumb point.
 

Plausible Deniability

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Pure laziness
This is what happens when someone's info is via funnel of media exposure and talking points to the extent he doesn't even understand the impact LeBron James has made to directly contradict the info he's been fed.
??? What in the world does a charity have to do with a message of awareness and education as to how people should conduct themselves in the event of interacting with Law Enforcement? Massive swing and a miss here.
 

Spoofin

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Instead of defunding the police, double their salary and get rid of the bad ones and their union.
Howie’s solution is keep the good cops and get rid of the bad cops. Quite the thinker.
 

goldengophers

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??? What in the world does a charity have to do with a message of awareness and education as to how people should conduct themselves in the event of interacting with Law Enforcement? Massive swing and a miss here.
Anytime you feel the itch going forward you post this quote and applaud his commitment to inner city Akron.
"I had a conversation with my kids. I let them know this is what it is, this is how it's going to be. When it's time for y'all to fly, you'll have to understand that. When y'all go out in public and y'all start driving or y'all start moving around, be respectful to cops, as much as you can. When you get pulled over, call your mom or dad, put it on speakerphone, and put your phone underneath the seat. But be respectful the whole time." -LeBron
 

Plausible Deniability

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Anytime you feel the itch going forward you post this quote and applaud his commitment to inner city Akron.
This is the use of a powerful national or worldwide platform? He decided to use that platform he had earlier this week to fan the flames of division and rioting and chaos. Well done
 

goldengophers

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This is the use of a powerful national or worldwide platform? He decided to use that platform he had earlier this week to fan the flames of division and rioting and chaos. Well done
He deleted it, it's funny the perfection required of some people (one tweet) but not others. The past four years of tweet flamed division must have been erased from your mind when the ban was handed down.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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I dont buy the systemic racist cop angle. I can produce studies and stats that back this up. I realize there may be studies and stats that indicate the opposite. But 25 unarmed blacks/year killed by police does not justify media calling this an epidemic, especially when studies are inconclusive.

I have posted a couple times previously that if my son was in wright's situation, i would ask the judge to commute potter's sentence. Would feel the issue was my son 's choices. If my son was in floyd's situatioon, i would have had no problem with a chauvin acquitttal. Again, would feel the issue to be my son's choices.

There's no convincing argument that systemic racism exists in policing.

This is nothing more than the political elites, the 1% & the multinational corporations trying to divide the working & middle classes.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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I was referring to this:
I don’t completely disagree with your first paragraph. But this entire issue being framed around race is I think off the mark, and if you want change, framing it that way is less likely to achieve your desired result.
police are the enforcement officers of the state. The bigger the state, the more rules, the more control, the worse the police. Drug war is the most glaring. People should be upset at the state, not the enforcement arm.
And I would again state, I hear what people are saying about black fear of police, but I don’t see it. The Columbus incident, that guy kicked a girl in the head right as officers arrived. Every one of these riots, you have people fearlessly getting right in the face of police. The south in the 50s, that was fear. It’s something else today. Doesn’t mean they don’t have legitimate complaints, I just don’t think that’s how humans behave when they are afraid. I think of the Chris Rock video on police.

Of those 13 "unarmed" Black people, how many were driving a car where their passenger did a drive by shooting on the cops, or were the passenger in a car where someone was shooting at the cops? How many were hit accidentally crossing the street during a high speed car chase? How many ran down a cop, and were shot by his partner? How many attempted to run down a cop with their car and were shot in the process? Sift through these types of cases, and it boils down to 3-5 cases a year that reasonable people would be upset with. That's out of tens of millions of police interactions annually. Statistically, you're more likely to be struck by lightening, or to die from the Covid vaccine than an anarmed Black man is from being killed by the cops.
 

ecoperson

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There's no convincing argument that systemic racism exists in policing.

This is nothing more than the political elites, the 1% & the multinational corporations trying to divide the working & middle classes.
Does systemic racism in policing include racial profiling? If so, you might want to try harder. There are literally dozens of research papers online that talk to this issue. A history of black oppression and resulting fear does not just magically disappear. This is not fairy dust and unicorns.
 

Section2

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Does systemic racism in policing include racial profiling? If so, you might want to try harder. There are literally dozens of research papers online that talk to this issue. A history of black oppression and resulting fear does not just magically disappear. This is not fairy dust and unicorns.
I’m sure for many people the fear is real. But one of the biggest factors in most police shootings I see is a complete lack of respect. And I think pushing a narrative that cops are just out there gunning down black people for no reason actually contributes to this dangerous situation.
it wouldn’t be as politically powerful for the left, but if the focus was on police brutality, shootings, militarized police in general, we might all be able to work together to improve the situation. There are examples of completely unjustified shootings and harassment of white people as well. But I already answered why.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Does systemic racism in policing include racial profiling? If so, you might want to try harder. There are literally dozens of research papers online that talk to this issue. A history of black oppression and resulting fear does not just magically disappear. This is not fairy dust and unicorns.

No. The police do not racially profile. They profile people they believe are likely committing crimes. Specifically, the poor. To presume police profile Black people of all socio-economic backgrounds equally is downright racist of you.

If the police were racially profiling, why would they profile Black men, since many largely Black cities see the majority of cops being Black, and Blacks often controll police leadership, the city council, and the Mayor to boot? There's no statistical decline in police interactions, police shootings, etc. In fact, based on the limited data we have, Black cops shoot Black people at a higher rate than White cops do. (as an aside, there's also no drop off in Female, Asian, Hispanic, or Gay cops.). To assume all cops are White in cities with majority Black populations, is downright racist of you.
 

GopherJake

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Not really. Lebron’s foundations serves about 1000 kids in Akron. I’m sure it does some good for some of those kids. But Lebrons leadership or lack therof can impact a hell of a lot more. He has 50 million Twitter followers. He’s used that platform to defend China and inflame racial tensions. To say that this negative impact is negated by giving food, fun outings, and some college scholarships I think is a pretty dumb point.
Blah blah blah. You called something a logic fail, but the logic fail was on your part. Own it.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Blah blah blah. You called something a logic fail, but the logic fail was on your part. Own it.
Our favorite little runaway!

You could always attempt at showing him where his logic failed. He laid out an argument that Lebron's reach and impact is greater on social media than it is through his foundation. I think most people would agree that the impact of someone with an enormous social media is tremendous.
 

goldengophers

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Our favorite little runaway!

You could always attempt at showing him where his logic failed. He laid out an argument that Lebron's reach and impact is greater on social media than it is through his foundation. I think most people would agree that the impact of someone with an enormous social media is tremendous.
I provided an example of where he dealt with police interaction head on.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Wright and Floyd don't need to be angels for Potter to be charged and Chauvin found guilty. This isn't a binary black and white scenario. Additionally, Riots=Bad doesn't mean Chauvin=Not Guilty.

Wright and Floyd also don't prove, or even hint, at any sort of systemic racism in policing. They were tragic accidents. Like a doctor giving a patient the wrong medication, or a person having bad reaction to a vaccine. We don't burn and loot when a surgeon nicks an artery. We don't defund hospitals if a doctor prescribes the wrong meds.

Every year we see around four shootings of unarmed Black people that most would find criminal, out of hundreds of millions of police interactions, and those cases are almost always charged immediately & convicted.
 
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