Good Policing

golf

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I dont buy the systemic racist cop angle. I can produce studies and stats that back this up. I realize there may be studies and stats that indicate the opposite. But 25 unarmed blacks/year killed by police does not justify media calling this an epidemic, especially when studies are inconclusive.

I have posted a couple times previously that if my son was in wright's situation, i would ask the judge to commute potter's sentence. Would feel the issue was my son 's choices. If my son was in floyd's situatioon, i would have had no problem with a chauvin acquitttal. Again, would feel the issue to be my son's choices.
 

goldengophers

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I dont buy the systemic racist cop angle. I can produce studies and stats that back this up. I realize there may be studies and stats that indicate the opposite. But 25 unarmed blacks/year killed by police does not justify media calling this an epidemic, especially when studies are inconclusive.

I have posted a couple times previously that if my son was in wright's situation, i would ask the judge to commute potter's sentence. Would feel the issue was my son 's choices. If my son was in floyd's situatioon, i would have had no problem with a chauvin acquitttal. Again, would feel the issue to be my son's choices.
As a black man you are certainly qualified to tell us how you would feel as George Floyd's father. I've had discussions with my friends about driving while black, have you dealt with something similar as a black man?
 
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Plausible Deniability

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I can't believe that I'm the only one that finds it at least a little bit odd that for most of this tumultuous 12-15 months there has been virtually no discussion of an improvement, some increased education and awareness, on how to conduct yourself when you come across Law Enforcement. Sure seems like this is a one-way street as to who actually needs to modify their behavior at least a little bit.

Where's the education and the raising of awareness for how we can all do better in terms of interacting with Law Enforcement? I get that it's completely acceptable for phrases like "F'k the police" and "kill those pigs" but maybe we can do a little better in that regard?
 

Bob_Loblaw

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As a black man you are certainly qualified to tell us how you would feel as George Floyd's father. I've had discussions with my friends about driving while black, have you dealt with something similar as a black man?
What does that have to do with anything?

We need systems and policies that are applied to everyone. I will never know what it's like to be Amish. Tons of folks who are either government employees or non-tax payers have tons of opinions on what to do with income tax.

Your standard is completely and entirely impossible.
 

goldengophers

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What does that have to do with anything?

We need systems and policies that are applied to everyone. I will never know what it's like to be Amish. Tons of folks who are either government employees or non-tax payers have tons of opinions on what to do with income tax.

Your standard is completely and entirely impossible.
I'll let the person specifically addressed answer it and address the equitable aspects of police interaction as a black man.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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I'll let the person specifically addressed answer it and address the equity aspect of police interaction as a black man.
No one is claiming to be a black man who isn't. LOL.

Is there a point you're trying to prove?
 

goldengophers

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No one is claiming to be a black man who isn't. LOL.

Is there a point you're trying to prove?
I believe he's a black man who can refute police racism from his life experience. He also knows what it's like to have Black sons who've interacted with the police and I want him to share further so we can correct all these incorrect assumptions and experiences spouted by others
 

golf

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As a black man you are certainly qualified to tell us how you would feel as George Floyd's father. I've had discussions with my friends about driving while black, have you dealt with something similar as a black man?

If i tried to convince you to accept conservative positions based on anecdote, you wouldnt. Researched stats much more helpful and instructive.

Otherwise we end up with 25 killed blacks, most for good reason, called an epidemic.
 

goldengophers

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If i tried to convince you to accept conservative positions based on anecdote, you wouldnt. Researched stats much more helpful and instructive.

Otherwise we end up with 25 killed blacks, most for good reason, called an epidemic.
Do you have a diverse group of friends? If so what do they share? You throw around your tough dad to George and Daunte routine with them?
 
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saintpaulguy

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I can't believe that I'm the only one that finds it at least a little bit odd that for most of this tumultuous 12-15 months there has been virtually no discussion of an improvement, some increased education and awareness, on how to conduct yourself when you come across Law Enforcement. Sure seems like this is a one-way street as to who actually needs to modify their behavior at least a little bit.

Where's the education and the raising of awareness for how we can all do better in terms of interacting with Law Enforcement? I get that it's completely acceptable for phrases like "F'k the police" and "kill those pigs" but maybe we can do a little better in that regard?
Because you aren’t the audience you might not be aware but this is being done

here is an organization to look at
 
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golf

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Do you have a diverse group of friends? If so what do they share? You throw around your tough dad to George and Daunte routine with them?

Do you have a diverse group of friends? If so what do they share? You throw around your tough dad to George and Daunte routine with them?

Irrelevant. Companies today are data driven not anecdote driven for a good reason. Keeps them from making mistakes such as "we have an epidemic of blacks being unjustly killed by cops".
 

goldengophers

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Irrelevant. Companies today are data driven not anecdote driven for a good reason. Keeps them from making mistakes such as "we have an epidemic of blacks being unjustly killed by cops".
So if it's strictly about the data why are you throwing in asinine commentary about how you'd ask Potter's charge be dropped if Daunte was your son?
 

GoodasGold

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I dont buy the systemic racist cop angle. I can produce studies and stats that back this up. I realize there may be studies and stats that indicate the opposite. But 25 unarmed blacks/year killed by police does not justify media calling this an epidemic, especially when studies are inconclusive.

I have posted a couple times previously that if my son was in wright's situation, i would ask the judge to commute potter's sentence. Would feel the issue was my son 's choices. If my son was in floyd's situatioon, i would have had no problem with a chauvin acquitttal. Again, would feel the issue to be my son's choices.
R both your sons black?🤔
 

golfing18now

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So if it's strictly about the data why are you throwing in asinine commentary about how you'd ask Potter's charge be dropped if Daunte was your son?
Why is that asinine commentary? Irrelevant to his point perhaps, but not asinine.
 

goldengophers

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Data doesnt show cops are systemically racist, therefore your premise is rejected.
Where's the data? Still waiting for the serious data to go with asinine commentary.
 

golf

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Where's the data? Still waiting for the serious data to go with asinine commentary.

app. 25 a year unarmed blacks killed by cops. Most of these unquestionably legit. Yet dems/media talk constantly about blacks being shot by cops in their homes and on the street like it's an epidemic. It's not an epidemic. It's a narrative meant to win votes.
 

goldengophers

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app. 25 a year unarmed blacks killed by cops. Most of these unquestionably legit. Yet dems/media talk constantly about blacks being shot by cops in their homes and on the street like it's an epidemic. It's not an epidemic. It's a narrative meant to win votes.
I'd like some sources and encourage you to get out a bit more once the virus slows.
 

Section2

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app. 25 a year unarmed blacks killed by cops. Most of these unquestionably legit. Yet dems/media talk constantly about blacks being shot by cops in their homes and on the street like it's an epidemic. It's not an epidemic. It's a narrative meant to win votes.
GG grew up in the gritty west Bloomington ghettoes. He knows man. He’s seen some stuff. He’s awake. He’s one of the people who thinks 1000 unarmed black men are killed by police every year.
 

golfing18now

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Because you aren’t the audience you might not be aware but this is being done

here is an organization to look at

Thanks for posting. I had never heard of this organization.

It's too bad all the money that has been spent on leaf blowers, umbrellas, riot gear, water/pop bottles to throw at police, and insurance money to clean up all the carnage from rioting/looting couldn't be redirected to organizations like this.

Then take all the wasted money by police precincts across the country and national guard troops intended to police all this nonsense and redirect that money to whatever training is identified to help with these situations.

Then maybe you would have some results to point to.
 

goldengophers

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GG grew up in the gritty west Bloomington ghettoes. He knows man. He’s seen some stuff. He’s awake. He’s one of the people who thinks 1000 unarmed black men are killed by police every year.
I am not beholden to some national figure you invented, I am beholden to the incidents here in the Twin Cities. My concern if wholly this area, I don't get wrapped up in national narratives. I'll leave victim blaming, jury trashing, and perceived statistically insignificance to national opinion makers who want binary divides.
 
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ecoperson

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I dont buy the systemic racist cop angle. I can produce studies and stats that back this up. I realize there may be studies and stats that indicate the opposite. But 25 unarmed blacks/year killed by police does not justify media calling this an epidemic, especially when studies are inconclusive.

I have posted a couple times previously that if my son was in wright's situation, i would ask the judge to commute potter's sentence. Would feel the issue was my son 's choices. If my son was in floyd's situatioon, i would have had no problem with a chauvin acquitttal. Again, would feel the issue to be my son's choices.
Are you saying that you would be OK if your son was killed for resisting arrest? Resisting arrest should not be a death sentence unless you are resisting by literally having a gun pointed at an officer. Making bad choices in life is not a death sentence. Officers are employed as peace keepers not judges, juries, and executioners.

Floyd was murdered. You don't put your knee on someone's neck for more than a couple of minutes when they are already subdued unless you have no regard for human life. There were ample back ups nearby so Floyd ceased to be a threat as soon as he was handcuffed on the ground. I can not imagine that you would be OK if YOUR son was killed in this fashion.

Officers are highly trained in dealing with stressful situations. I shudder to think that you are are OK with someone 'mistakenly' killing your son instead of using the taser. "I'm sorry, mr golf, I accidentally killed your son. My bad."

Police have lost the people's trust because of excessive police violence. Why does it escalate to fatality so quickly? Why are non-lethal techniques not exhausted before a life is taken? Why was Michael Brown shot in the back while running away? Did he represent an immediate threat to others after the altercation with the officer? If the officer can't catch him, let him run away and pick him up later that day or tomorrow or the next week.

I shared this link on another thread. Look at the graphic comparing the US to other countries. Why do we have such a high rate of lethal encounters with officers?

https://theweek.com/articles/918849/what-about-police-violence-against-white-people

What is wrong with our policing? Can someone explain why this country has so much police violence? Are we more violent people that need more violent policing? If so, what can we do to help our citizens chill out a bit? Why so much rage?
 

golf

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An opinion piece from Heather McDonald is your source? I want the full swath of objective academic data, not something presented via a far right opinion piece.
There are researched studies cited in that article. Here is another two


 

ecoperson

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GG grew up in the gritty west Bloomington ghettoes. He knows man. He’s seen some stuff. He’s awake. He’s one of the people who thinks 1000 unarmed black men are killed by police every year.
S2- you're better than this. No one has said that there are a 1000 unarmed black men killed by police every year. What people are saying, for example, is that black men are more likely to be pulled over for a broken tail light than white men. Many black men have grown up being afraid of the police because of a long history of profiling and violence against black men. Many black men become stressed and nervous during interactions with officers even if they have done nothing. Many officers detects this and begins to sense the physical manifestations of these emotions as if the individual HAS done something wrong or IS about to become violent. Every incident between an officer and a black man carries a lot of cultural baggage and has the potential to escalate into a violent encounter.

Similar incidents with a white civilian do not carry this cultural baggage and are not as apt to escalate in this manner. Black families have a long history of telling their young black men to be wary of the police and authority due a LONG history of real brutality and truly deplorable actions. This can not be easily washed away and EVERY incident like a Floyd and Wright only further engrains this fear into our culture.

Here is a link to an interesting interview with the author of Racial Profiling in Policing: Beyond the Basics which I hope to read.

https://thecrimereport.org/2021/01/08/analyzing-police-misconduct-the-data-behind-racial-profiling/
 

golfing18now

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S2- you're better than this. No one has said that there are a 1000 unarmed black men killed by police every year. What people are saying, for example, is that black men are more likely to be pulled over for a broken tail light than white men. Many black men have grown up being afraid of the police because of a long history of profiling and violence against black men. Many black men become stressed and nervous during interactions with officers even if they have done nothing. Many officers detects this and begins to sense the physical manifestations of these emotions as if the individual HAS done something wrong or IS about to become violent. Every incident between an officer and a black man carries a lot of cultural baggage and has the potential to escalate into a violent encounter.

Similar incidents with a white civilian do not carry this cultural baggage and are not as apt to escalate in this manner. Black families have a long history of telling their young black men to be wary of the police and authority due a LONG history of real brutality and truly deplorable actions. This can not be easily washed away and EVERY incident like a Floyd and Wright only further engrains this fear into our culture.

Here is a link to an interesting interview with the author of Racial Profiling in Policing: Beyond the Basics which I hope to read.

https://thecrimereport.org/2021/01/08/analyzing-police-misconduct-the-data-behind-racial-profiling/

You raise some very good questions in your two posts. The golf course is calling otherwise I would offer more of an opinion. But the part in bold isn't true. This recent poll illustrates just how misguided the public is in regards to how many black unarmed individuals are actually shot each year by police. The disconnect, in my mind, fuels the obvious lack of trust that lead to so many of these unfortunate outcomes.

1619277825253.png
 

Section2

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S2- you're better than this. No one has said that there are a 1000 unarmed black men killed by police every year. What people are saying, for example, is that black men are more likely to be pulled over for a broken tail light than white men. Many black men have grown up being afraid of the police because of a long history of profiling and violence against black men. Many black men become stressed and nervous during interactions with officers even if they have done nothing. Many officers detects this and begins to sense the physical manifestations of these emotions as if the individual HAS done something wrong or IS about to become violent. Every incident between an officer and a black man carries a lot of cultural baggage and has the potential to escalate into a violent encounter.

Similar incidents with a white civilian do not carry this cultural baggage and are not as apt to escalate in this manner. Black families have a long history of telling their young black men to be wary of the police and authority due a LONG history of real brutality and truly deplorable actions. This can not be easily washed away and EVERY incident like a Floyd and Wright only further engrains this fear into our culture.

Here is a link to an interesting interview with the author of Racial Profiling in Policing: Beyond the Basics which I hope to read.

https://thecrimereport.org/2021/01/08/analyzing-police-misconduct-the-data-behind-racial-profiling/
I was referring to this:
I don’t completely disagree with your first paragraph. But this entire issue being framed around race is I think off the mark, and if you want change, framing it that way is less likely to achieve your desired result.
police are the enforcement officers of the state. The bigger the state, the more rules, the more control, the worse the police. Drug war is the most glaring. People should be upset at the state, not the enforcement arm.
And I would again state, I hear what people are saying about black fear of police, but I don’t see it. The Columbus incident, that guy kicked a girl in the head right as officers arrived. Every one of these riots, you have people fearlessly getting right in the face of police. The south in the 50s, that was fear. It’s something else today. Doesn’t mean they don’t have legitimate complaints, I just don’t think that’s how humans behave when they are afraid. I think of the Chris Rock video on police.
 
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