Gabe in Portal

bc2211

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It is possible that we will be worse.
The real question is for how long. Unless you are a powerhouse, year 1 is not about results but culture and foundation. Firing a coach (who normally would have deserved it) during a free transfer year, and hiring a new coach with no pedigree is asking for a multi year disaster before BJ has anything at all to sell.

I keep reading that individual local recruits didn’t like Pitino or thought he didn’t work hard enough locally. Maybe that’s the case, but at best, BJ fixes only that issue. He still has to convince players that he’s the best coach for their future. I hope I’m in the minority, but BJ’s lack of experience would simply preclude him from consideration if I was a recruit or a parent who had a voice. That’s despite the assumption that he’s a good dude and recruits hands


only been skimming lately, apologies if this has been said a zillion times on here.
 

GopherPlaya

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Quit doing so many back flips in trying to explain that it has nothing to do with our current coach.

The fact of the matter is that the school brought in a coach to appease the local players and the highest profile local player then decides he is leaving.
So you basically diminishing been as a coach before you even see his X & Os. I’m sure during the interview he presented more to Coyle than just being able to recruit local. If our whole plan is to keep locals home, then we won’t be able to have sustainable success anyway. Every year there won’t be more than 2-3 high level guys. 2023 class has Chatman and no other kid worth an offer. 2024 has good players but no one has emerged has an high level guy look a lot of others have. We need to cast a wider net for recruiting regardless. We got to get off the one of us stuff.
 

MplsGopher

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What replacement? We will play 8-10 guys and currently have about 2. There will be minutes for all competent players.
What replacement? We literally have zero guards on the roster.

I didn't think what I said was that confusing.

I meant like, for hypothetical example: last week, when Gabe was still on the team, Ben says "hey Gabe, I'm looking at adding so and so from such and such school, who will be coming in to compete with you for the starting spot", Gabe doesn't take kindly to this and so he puts his name in the portal.


whalenfan says he was always going to be transferring out, and only because Ben was hired would he consider coming back. I can believe that (though I am curious to know the reason why). And obviously would make my wild guess above wrong and moot.
 

builtbadgers

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I say go back to the sit out year, but make coaches sit out a year too
Let players transfer without the sign out when the coach leaves, is fired, retires or passes away own if a program is put on probation as long as they were not any part of the problem..This is what I think they will actually do.
 

GopherPlaya

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Eliminating the four year scholarships is a recipe for disaster for the vast majority of players. If it is about education and it really is for a vast majority of guys in the system, putting them on at will is terrible for them. This whole thing is for the most part about creating advantages for the high end players in high demand. Most of them aren’t. The system should protect their education too. One year scholarships don’t do that.
It has always been 1 year scholarships. How many players are run out of programs each year to open up a scholarship. You think a kid like Kevin Payton wanted to leave the U for his senior year. No he was run out. It happens just as much as a player wanting to leave by choice
 

alaska

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Gabe hasn't hit the broad side of a barn in two years. I would not see this as a huge loss.
 

cjbfbp

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It has always been 1 year scholarships. How many players are run out of programs each year to open up a scholarship. You think a kid like Kevin Payton wanted to leave the U for his senior year. No he was run out. It happens just as much as a player wanting to leave by choice

Yes, thanks for bringing that up. I think a lot of fans don't realize that.

Mr. Payton was before my time as a Gopher fan so I looked him up. Not a good college career but he did have a lengthy career in Austria.

Kevin Payton's International Career
 

MplsGopher

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It has always been 1 year scholarships. How many players are run out of programs each year to open up a scholarship. You think a kid like Kevin Payton wanted to leave the U for his senior year. No he was run out. It happens just as much as a player wanting to leave by choice
No, they changed that, I believe in 2016.

Since then: if you receive a scholarship as a freshman, it is guaranteed for four years, so long as you remain in good standing with the school rules and academically. IE, they can't take it away for athletic related reasons. If you don't get it as a freshman (walk-on, or JUCO transfer), then it still is a 1 year renewal deal.

I agree very much with that rule change.
 

Ozzy&Ray

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If Ben had anything to do with Gabe entering the portal it’ll be a short tenure for Ben.
Kids need inspiration....not threats. Highly doubt it was anything Ben said negatively about Gabe’s performance as a Gopher.
Ben may not have blown enough smoke up Gabe’s skirt for Gabe’s taste but anything
harsh about his play would be very dumb.
Why? Every team needs a lockdown defender. Hard worker. Straight arrow. Etc
It ain’t Ben that nudged him in the portal.
The best coaches, leaders in any field, are honest with their team members. If not, no one improves. The best team members appreciate that, some don’t. In the end you get the best people around you when there is a culture of being honest about strengths to build on, weaknesses to address, etc. There is no way Ben told Gabe what he wants to hear and ignored the areas of weakness, and if he did that’s not going to work.
 

PMWinSTP

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It has always been 1 year scholarships. How many players are run out of programs each year to open up a scholarship. You think a kid like Kevin Payton wanted to leave the U for his senior year. No he was run out. It happens just as much as a player wanting to leave by choice
How sure are you about this?
 

GopherPlaya

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No, they changed that, I believe in 2016.

The rule says that if you receive a scholarship as a freshman, it is guaranteed for four years, so long as you remain in good standing with the school rules and academically. IE, they can't take it away for athletic related reasons.

I agree very much with that rule change.
They cant take it away but they can tell you that you will never play here so it will be best to start looking around which is basically the same thing. It’s not all players just deciding to hit the portal
 

MplsGopher

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They cant take it away but they can tell you that you will never play here so it will be best to start looking around which is basically the same thing. It’s not all players just deciding to hit the portal
They absolutely can tell a player that, and I agree that is done all the time. I don't agree that is the same thing.

If they take a chance on a kid, and they didn't do enough homework to know he wouldn't work out .... that's their fault. If the kid wants to stay in school here, has made friends here, likes it here ... that's the coaching staff's fault, not his. He should be allowed to keep his scholarship, if he chooses to.
 

GopherPlaya

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They absolutely can tell a player that, and I agree that is done all the time. I don't agree that is the same thing.

If they take a chance on a kid, and they didn't do enough homework to know he wouldn't work out .... that's their fault. If the kid wants to stay in school here, has made friends here, likes it here ... that's the coaching staff's fault, not his. He should be allowed to keep his scholarship, if he chooses to.
I agree they should keep it but they def get ran off still. Coaches are def running guys off tho
 

MplsGopher

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I agree they should keep it but they def get ran off still. Coaches are def running guys off tho
If you're a player and you love the game ... you want to play. So the scenario I described is probably unlikely. But on principle, I still think the rule is correct.
 

mplarson7

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I didn't think what I said was that confusing.

I meant like, for hypothetical example: last week, when Gabe was still on the team, Ben says "hey Gabe, I'm looking at adding so and so from such and such school, who will be coming in to compete with you for the starting spot", Gabe doesn't take kindly to this and so he puts his name in the portal.


whalenfan says he was always going to be transferring out, and only because Ben was hired would he consider coming back. I can believe that (though I am curious to know the reason why). And obviously would make my wild guess above wrong and moot.
So we have one guard left on the roster (Gabe at that point, all the others were already in the transfer portal), and the coach is going to that one guard to say he's recruiting someone to compete for his starting spot?

Are you picking out where that is a ridiculous notion yet? Even as a hypothetical, that is really bad take.
 

cjbfbp

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No, they changed that, I believe in 2016.

Since then: if you receive a scholarship as a freshman, it is guaranteed for four years, so long as you remain in good standing with the school rules and academically. IE, they can't take it away for athletic related reasons. If you don't get it as a freshman (walk-on, or JUCO transfer), then it still is a 1 year renewal deal.

I agree very much with that rule change.

Thanks for the information. I didn't realize they changed that. I don't see anything particularly unfair about that. If you get an academic scholarship but don't perform to reasonable expectations, you easily can lose it in future years. I don't see why athletes are entitled to four years regardless of performance. Gaston was the athletic equivalent of student on an academic scholarship getting straight D grades for four years. Michael Hurt was a C-.
 

PMWinSTP

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Very sure I was a former manager and I have seen it happen first hand and still hear crazy stories about guys being run off
As posted here, and many other threads on this board P5 schools mandated five years ago that incoming freshmen/transfers who sign NLIs/scholarship agreements and are on scholarship from their first year of enrollment or transfer are guaranteed.
 

MplsGopher

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So we have one guard left on the roster (Gabe at that point, all the others were already in the transfer portal), and the coach is going to that one guard to say he's recruiting someone to compete for his starting spot?

The new coach, completely rebuilding the roster, should choose to only have one player per position?
 

MplsGopher

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I don't see why athletes are entitled to four years regardless of performance.
Sure, most people probably agree that makes sense.

But here is the rub: remember that the NCAA is supposedly a bunch of amateurs who are just playing sports in their meantime while academics are their priority. Right?

How can that facade be maintained if you're saying that your scholarship is being taken away because you're not performing in that "secondary" athletic endeavor?
 

CentralGopher

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The rebuild can only truly begin when we have a legit coach ...
Dude we get it. Give it a rest. Never put anyone on mute in the decade plus I've been on this board but it's gonna happen if I'm gonna have to see posts like this that literally contribute nothing for the next several years.
 

GopherBlood666

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Thanks for the information. I didn't realize they changed that. I don't see anything particularly unfair about that. If you get an academic scholarship but don't perform to reasonable expectations, you easily can lose it in future years. I don't see why athletes are entitled to four years regardless of performance. Gaston was the athletic equivalent of student on an academic scholarship getting straight D grades for four years. Michael Hurt was a C-.
Former players would argue a 4 years scholarship is not enough, that they all deserve to get paid on top of the benefits that come with being on the team. Seems as though players like Gaston and Hurt got more than enough value from their time here considering their actual on court contributions.
 

mplarson7

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The new coach, completely rebuilding the roster, should choose to only have one player per position?
Okay, I don't think you even understood what you typed out.

As of last week, we only had one guard total on the roster, all the others were in the transfer portal. You're throwing out a hypothetical where Johnson went to Gabe, knowing full well that he was the only guard remaining, saying that he was recruiting a guard to take his starting spot.

Your exact words: "Maybe Ben told him that his replacement is in the portal and is going to accept an offer to come to Minnesota."

So your take, the one guard we have we are replacing instead of filling out the other guard spots.
 

PMWinSTP

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Thanks for the information. I didn't realize they changed that. I don't see anything particularly unfair about that. If you get an academic scholarship but don't perform to reasonable expectations, you easily can lose it in future years. I don't see why athletes are entitled to four years regardless of performance. Gaston was the athletic equivalent of student on an academic scholarship getting straight D grades for four years. Michael Hurt was a C-.
Student athletes can contribute to the team in different ways. There are some on scholarship who get little to no playing time, even in BBall.
 

Go Gophs

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This whole thing is a joke really. The NCAA is basically telling these kids that we are now an AAU or club program. Go where you want.

This also encourages payments and favors to top players. You know it will be happening.


As for Gabe leaving? I hope he stays just because he is that glue type guy and plays good defense. But I also don't think upgrading his position is this extremely hard thing to do either.

What it does do is look bad on the new coach. Yes, I know there are lots of kids leaving at every school, but he is going to have a hard time making a roster at this pace...
 

MplsGopher

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You're throwing out a hypothetical where Johnson went to Gabe, knowing full well that he was the only guard remaining, saying that he was recruiting a guard to take his starting spot.
..... well???

I mean, you've watched Gabe's struggles, right? The new coach should instead say "well crap, I'm stuck with Gabe now because we only have one guard, so I can't bring anyone else in at that position or else he'll leave too" ?

Maybe he thought it would be a "test" for Gabe. See how he responds. Would it light a fire under his butt, to compete and win his spot again?


I'm throwing poopoo against the wall. You know it, everyone knows it. If I strike up an interesting discussion about it, I have zero fear of looking like an idiot. I do it all the time.
 

GopherPlaya

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As posted here, and many other threads on this board P5 schools mandated five years ago that incoming freshmen/transfers who sign NLIs/scholarship agreements and are on scholarship from their first year of enrollment or transfer are guaranteed.
Just because it’s a rule doesnt mean coaches abide by it. Coaches violate rules all the time. You’re naive if you think coaches aren’t still running kids of campus. All 1200 kids aren’t in the portal by choice
 

GopherPlaya

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This whole thing is a joke really. The NCAA is basically telling these kids that we are now an AAU or club program. Go where you want.

This also encourages payments and favors to top players. You know it will be happening.


As for Gabe leaving? I hope he stays just because he is that glue type guy and plays good defense. But I also don't think upgrading his position is this extremely hard thing to do either.

What it does do is look bad on the new coach. Yes, I know there are lots of kids leaving at every school, but he is going to have a hard time making a roster at this pace.
Top players are already getting paid. Always have been
 

CentralGopher

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Former players would argue a 4 years scholarship is not enough, that they all deserve to get paid on top of the benefits that come with being on the team. Seems as though players like Gaston and Hurt got more than enough value from their time here considering their actual on court contributions.
Seems like everyone got considerable value from their time as well. I assume with the ones that opted back in for football including first round talent this past year they must have recognized that value as well.
 

benlaur

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The good thing about all of this is everyone will see soon enough. Mights, almosts and could have beens don't matter. I don't know how anyone can judge anything until this year's class is set and then the season begins. On that matter, Johnson will be judged on everything, just like his predecessor. You either win people over or you don't. You either win games or you don't.

As a first year head coach, Johnson's first year is probably more important than a seasoned coach. If you don't show something your first year, I am not sure how recruiting gets easier. Whatever the case, it will be interesting to see how things play out.
 
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