Gabe in Portal

McDobb4BB

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OK - so what is your point? Gabe was a valuable freshman but never offered a sophomore scholarship?
 

USAF

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OK - so what is your point? Gabe was a valuable freshman but never offered a sophomore scholarship?
Forget it. You aren't intellectually capable of keeping up.

Sorry to waste your time.
 

McDobb4BB

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Forget it. You aren't intellectually capable of keeping up.

Sorry to waste your time.
When you lack any intellect, knowledge, or understanding of the actual game .. run and hide ... maybe you can start a forum about "fresh produce"!
 

Cayman

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People say gabe is not a big ten starter. Come on hes an elite defender and he averaged 10 pts a game in big ten. If he plays at ohio state he still starts, but may not be required to score a ton, but anybody who thinks gabe is not a big ten starter is out of their mind.
Flashing back to the debates of "Austin Hollins is a great defender" vs. "Austin Hollins is useless if he's not hitting 3's" that we were having here 7-8 years ago.
 

TWeber

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Flashing back to the debates of "Austin Hollins is a great defender" vs. "Austin Hollins is useless if he's not hitting 3's" that we were having here 7-8 years ago.
Here is what I find interesting...the difference between shooting 25% from three vs. 35% from three is huge in our minds. That is making one more three pointer out of every ten you take. Let's say a guard takes 5 per game. Over two games that is 1 more make...1.5 points per game. A good to great defender can easily make a difference of preventing one or more baskets than his replacement I would think. So, a great defender in the team game hypothetically has value even shooting 25%. We just don't see metrics showing defensive efficiency like we do shooting percentages.
 

cjbfbp

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He was a key player as a freshman on a NCAA Tournament winning team ... where were you then/

He had a good freshman year as a fourth or fifth option. As a third option for the next two years, he more often than not a real disappointment.
 
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cjbfbp

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Flashing back to the debates of "Austin Hollins is a great defender" vs. "Austin Hollins is useless if he's not hitting 3's" that we were having here 7-8 years ago.

That's an interesting comparable. I don't remember that debate but I probably didn't spend much time on this board then so I'll take your word for it. The first time I watched Austin much was when he was a junior and senior and I remember thinking at the time that Austin was a fine all around player who also showed visible leadership traits.

Austin showed steady improvement over his four years:

PER over 4 years (from fresh to senior): 13.7, 15.6, 19.7, 20.2
Win Shares over 4 years: 1.0, 3.0, 4.2, 4.7
True Shooting Percentage: .495, .576, .539, .568

The same numbers for Gabe (over three years):
PER over 3 years (from fresh to junior): 11.9, 11.5, 9.2
Win Shares over 3 years: 2.7, 2.3, .8
True Shooting Percentage: .576, .503, .453

The freshman Gabe might have been a little better than the freshman Austin but Austin clearly eclipsed him after that. By most metrics, Gabe's career moved in the opposite direction.
 
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Gopher Teeth

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Here is what I find interesting...the difference between shooting 25% from three vs. 35% from three is huge in our minds. That is making one more three pointer out of every ten you take. Let's say a guard takes 5 per game. Over two games that is 1 more make...1.5 points per game. A good to great defender can easily make a difference of preventing one or more baskets than his replacement I would think. So, a great defender in the team game hypothetically has value even shooting 25%. We just don't see metrics showing defensive efficiency like we do shooting percentages.
Spot on. I am upset I couldn't give your post more than one thumbs-up. In addition to what you mentioned Gabe always covered the other teams best player and limited them. This is always huge because when a team's number one option is off, it takes them out of their comfort zone . I will always take that vs getting one more made 3 per game.
 

cjbfbp

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When you lack any intellect, knowledge, or understanding of the actual game .. run and hide ... maybe you can start a forum about "fresh produce"!

The "you're stupid and know nothing of basketball" argument is a lazy cop-out. If that's the best you have, then you aren't much.
 

CentralGopher

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Here is what I find interesting...the difference between shooting 25% from three vs. 35% from three is huge in our minds. That is making one more three pointer out of every ten you take. Let's say a guard takes 5 per game. Over two games that is 1 more make...1.5 points per game. A good to great defender can easily make a difference of preventing one or more baskets than his replacement I would think. So, a great defender in the team game hypothetically has value even shooting 25%. We just don't see metrics showing defensive efficiency like we do shooting percentages.
Flawed logic. A player shooting 35% is gonna shoot more (or at least should) than one shooting 25%.
 

Holy Man

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The "you're stupid and know nothing of basketball" argument is a lazy cop-out. If that's the best you have, then you aren't much.
And a poor argument makes them "not much." A bit of an overreach, I think.
 

Go Gophs

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Well, a good example of that was Omersa. Athletic kid who played hard on the defensive end but had little in the way of offensive skills (other than being able to leap and dunk).
Not a super smart defender though. Stupid fouls nonstop. To me that is not a good defensive player at all. He also lost assignments frequently.
 

Go Gophs

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Flashing back to the debates of "Austin Hollins is a great defender" vs. "Austin Hollins is useless if he's not hitting 3's" that we were having here 7-8 years ago.
Austin Hollins rebounded, took the ball to the rack and hit enough open shots.

He was a much better player than Gabe, this is not really debatable.
 

manderson1984

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Here is what I find interesting...the difference between shooting 25% from three vs. 35% from three is huge in our minds. That is making one more three pointer out of every ten you take. Let's say a guard takes 5 per game. Over two games that is 1 more make...1.5 points per game. A good to great defender can easily make a difference of preventing one or more baskets than his replacement I would think. So, a great defender in the team game hypothetically has value even shooting 25%. We just don't see metrics showing defensive efficiency like we do shooting percentages.
Great point on showing the metrics. I’ve laid them out to and some will just refuse to accept them. It’s not a battle worth fighting here
 

Go Gophs

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Great point on showing the metrics. I’ve laid them out to and some will just refuse to accept them. It’s not a battle worth fighting here
Until the whole team you are playing sags and makes it impossible for the rest of your guys to get to the rack. Teams flat out didn't guard us at the 3 line this year and they took away our inside game and there was very little there in terms of driving lanes also.

Being able to hit from outside opens up the floor for a multitude of different players. It's bigger than 1.5 points a game, IMO.
 
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