Final St. Thomas vs St. Johns game to be played in U.S. Bank Stadium

pharmacygopher

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Why is that better?

Your comparison is a hypothetical "what if" situation whereas on Nov 7, 2020 the Gophers will host Purdue at TCF Bank on the same date (perhaps the same time or likely with overlap) 2 miles away St Johns is playing St Thomas at US Bank. Which will draw more?
Because my scenario is the exact one playing out between those two schools....long time rivals who may not ever play again. If you don't see how those circumstances differ from a random MN/PU game with no historical/rivalry implications game we shouldn't discuss this because we'll disagree.
 

pharmacygopher

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Sure they could outdraw the Big Ten. For one game, on one day, which ends a very historic rivalry. I would almost expect them to. Another poster made a good comment though. Would this game ever have a chance of outdrawing a Big Ten game between traditional rivals, if it was the last time the BIG rivals ever played? Nope. Not a chance.
Pretty sure I said that and you quoted it
 

MNGopher23

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Unless either game gets moved, Nov 7th is the same date the Gophers host Purdue. A night game would be unlikely, so there will probably be some overlap.

Which game will have the bigger crowd? Can the MIAC outdraw the Big 10?
For this game, I think they do. We'll see shortly when tickets go on sale in March.
 

laazrakit

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My guess is, with all the media coverage going into gameday, this is going to be pushing sellout territory.

As to which league, I'm hoping that they end up going all in, so to speak. I want to see Minnesota kids have a chance to stay home. I'm tired of seeing 25-30 Minnesotans playing football for NDSU... I'd rather see 'em in their home state. If St. Thomas does step up, I can see myself becoming a Tommie supporter.
 

Ope3

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Because my scenario is the exact one playing out between those two schools....long time rivals who may not ever play again. If you don't see how those circumstances differ from a random MN/PU game with no historical/rivalry implications game we shouldn't discuss this because we'll disagree.
I have no doubt it would play differently if the Gophers were playing someone other than Purdue or if this was not the last StJ/StT game, but that is the situation at hand. If you think it is a better talker to discuss what if they were playing Penn St or Wisconsin, that's your prerogative, but it is not happening...so what's the point?

2018 Gophers/Purdue tickets sold were 31,000 with about half that in house. Without question the Gopher football outlook has changed. Enough to outdraw Johnnies/Tommies? Could the games combined draw over 100,000? It will be interesting to see how it plays out. Logistics alone should make it a crazy day in Minneapolis.
 

Schnauzer

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I certainly could end up being wrong as this is only my opinion but I don't think it will be a sellout. I don't believe there was anyone shutout of getting a ticket when 37,000 attended the the Tommie/Johnnie game in Target Field a few years back on a beautiful sunny day. I realize there will be a feeling of finality attached to this one in a bigger venue and that might raise attendance beyond the Target Field game. But, enough for 29K more? Where will they come from? Interested third party people not associated with either school? The percentage of those that care is much higher for St. Johns but even combined with St. Bens - they probably graduate only about 1K alums per year. A lot more for St. Thomas but the level of interest is much lower too as they are often outnumbered by opposing fans in their own venues for sporting events.

This isn't to take anything away from the rivalry. I am jealous of it and I do think it is Gameday-worthy. I just think there is an attendance ceiling for their games regardless of venue and U.S. Bank Stadium will probably have capacity beyond that ceiling.
 

MaxyJR1

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I would guess 50,000+ for the game. It's a big deal. 37,000 in a baseball stadium 20,000 in a soccer stadium. Add that it's the last game and the 9 months of marketing, they will get 50,000+

Although they will complete with Gophers and some HS Section Finals.
 

Schnauzer

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I would guess 50,000+ for the game. It's a big deal. 37,000 in a baseball stadium 20,000 in a soccer stadium. Add that it's the last game and the 9 months of marketing, they will get 50,000+

Although they will complete with Gophers and some HS Section Finals.
that's kind of what I am estimating although I originally said 40K and that wouldn't surprise me either. 50K seems about right (and historic, even for this rivalry).
 

short ornery norwegian

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This game will draw the hard-core Tommie and Johnnie fans - but beyond that, it will draw people who want to go just to be part of the event. "The Last Game ever...." The hype leading up to this game will be nuts. (not to mention WCCO hyping it to the gills every morning with Dave Lee...)

I will say at least 50,000 with an outside chance at 60,000.

and yes, I will predict right now the Tommie-Johnnie game will have more actual bodies in seats than the Gopher game.
 

Crosby

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Related question... do other MIAC schools ever get annoyed with the level of attention given to this rivalry? I am in no way saying that SJ-ST isn't deserving of the attention. But if I am a St. Olaf, Hamline, or Gustavus fan, then I am kind of jealous of the attention this game receives. That said, I have never heard anyone complain about it. Just curious.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Related question... do other MIAC schools ever get annoyed with the level of attention given to this rivalry? I am in no way saying that SJ-ST isn't deserving of the attention. But if I am a St. Olaf, Hamline, or Gustavus fan, then I am kind of jealous of the attention this game receives. That said, I have never heard anyone complain about it. Just curious.
I mean if the other schools can fill US Bank reasonably well I think they would do that.
 

Gophs24

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Related question... do other MIAC schools ever get annoyed with the level of attention given to this rivalry? I am in no way saying that SJ-ST isn't deserving of the attention. But if I am a St. Olaf, Hamline, or Gustavus fan, then I am kind of jealous of the attention this game receives. That said, I have never heard anyone complain about it. Just curious.
meh....im sure they are jealous...but they already did what they needed to do to stop the attention....booted the Tommies out!
 

GophersInIowa

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Not next year. They will still be in the MIAC next year. After that? They are working to go straight to D1 and so far all signs have pointed toward that being granted, soon.

So in my opinion, at most, it might be a limbo season or two as a D3 independent at most.
Yeah sorry, meant after next year. Still am surprised it could possibly happen that quickly. Feel like it usually takes several years.
 

Schnauzer

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Related question... do other MIAC schools ever get annoyed with the level of attention given to this rivalry? I am in no way saying that SJ-ST isn't deserving of the attention. But if I am a St. Olaf, Hamline, or Gustavus fan, then I am kind of jealous of the attention this game receives. That said, I have never heard anyone complain about it. Just curious.
I get a little annoyed with it, although I will freely admit they deserve the rivalry they have built in football. It was always a good rivalry but it truly reached its zenith and became great when St. Thomas improved their program in later years.

I also get annoyed that the football rivalry leaves outsiders with the opinion these are the only two schools in the conference. St. Thomas got that way because in the 00's they went from being the dominant school in the conference (all sports) to being untouchable thanks to their size, resources, etc. Meanwhile, St. Johns got that reputation simply due to the notoriety their football team brings.

Gustavus finishes above St. John's / St. Bens more often than not in the "all sports" MIAC trophy results and is usually second in men's and women's all-sports results to St. Thomas but most people outside the conference don't realize that. Ink related to Johnnie football in the paper has a way of altering perceptions.

Meanwhile, St. Thomas, which used to look a lot like all the other MIAC schools, grew from being a college, to a university, to a larger regional university. With the growing alumni base, contracts could be signed with stuff like WCCO to effectively become the Twin Cities "other D1 school" while remaining in D3. It's tough to be an MIAC sports fan and see one school with those kinds of advantages and head starts in recruiting. Yet, when the conference was headed toward breaking up and ceasing to exist over this, and St. Thomas proved they had outgrown D3 by petitioning to go directly to D1... there is still this uninformed "what a bunch of pansies, kicking out a team because it was too successful" vibe. That can be annoying too.
 

BigGopher69

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My guess is, with all the media coverage going into gameday, this is going to be pushing sellout territory.

As to which league, I'm hoping that they end up going all in, so to speak. I want to see Minnesota kids have a chance to stay home. I'm tired of seeing 25-30 Minnesotans playing football for NDSU... I'd rather see 'em in their home state. If St. Thomas does step up, I can see myself becoming a Tommie supporter.
Some people don't want to go to a private school and pay a ridiculous amount of money
 

MplsGopher

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Yeah sorry, meant after next year. Still am surprised it could possibly happen that quickly. Feel like it usually takes several years.
One undertone, though I don’t think it is anywhere near dire now, is that the Summit League constantly needs to restock with new schools to survive. They eagerly await ST’s entrance into the league.
 

4four4

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Related question... do other MIAC schools ever get annoyed with the level of attention given to this rivalry?
Nope. It was good for the conference to receive more attention. Moreover, both schools were Catholic while the rest of football playing MIAC were not.
 

Word

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I would guess 50,000+ for the game. It's a big deal. 37,000 in a baseball stadium 20,000 in a soccer stadium. Add that it's the last game and the 9 months of marketing, they will get 50,000+

Although they will complete with Gophers and some HS Section Finals.
One thing is for sure - Mike Max will be there! He loves his d3 sports.
 

Swede

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Do any other D1 teams schedule D3 opponents in football? Seems unlikely. Especially if St. Thomas ramps up quickly (which is the prevailing opinion).
SDSU played UWLaCrosse (or was it Oshkosh?) early in its transition and lost. That same year the ever modest NDSU Bison, not yet eligible for the FCS playoffs and undefeated going into its final game including two FBS wins, was making noise about a playoff waiver or even a bowl invite. SDSU recovered from that low point, went undefeated in the mish mash Great West Conference going into the final game against NDSU. SDSU beat NDSU in that final game, won the conference and ever humble NDSU promptly shut their cudholes about b postseason play. But I digress.

If I'm St Thomas, a game against the Johnnies is a no win. If in fact the Tommies end up playing Pioneer League football, it may not at any given time hold athletic superiority on the gridiron over a top DIII program, let alone during its DI transition.
 

SJUgopher

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It is a sad end of an era of great MN DIII Football. Saint Thomas has outgrown its DIII MIAC foot print. I wouldn't be surprised if Saint John's and Saint Ben's were the only ones who voted to keep Saint Thomas in the MIAC. Does anyone know who voted for and against?

You think of DIII Football in MN, and you think of the Johnnie-Tommie games.
They didn’t technically vote. St. Thomas said, “You can’t fire me, I quit.” There was talk Bethel sucks would join CSBSJU in voting to keep USTd, but i think they were set to join the others.
 

MplsGopher

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SDSU played UWLaCrosse (or was it Oshkosh?) early in its transition and lost. That same year the ever modest NDSU Bison, not yet eligible for the FCS playoffs and undefeated going into its final game including two FBS wins, was making noise about a playoff waiver or even a bowl invite. SDSU recovered from that low point, went undefeated in the mish mash Great West Conference going into the final game against NDSU. SDSU beat NDSU in that final game, won the conference and ever humble NDSU promptly shut their cudholes about b postseason play. But I digress.

If I'm St Thomas, a game against the Johnnies is a no win. If in fact the Tommies end up playing Pioneer League football, it may not at any given time hold athletic superiority on the gridiron over a top DIII program, let alone during its DI transition.
The NCAA was never giving anyone a waiver. That was a ridiculous rumor. However, had they gone undefeated, there might’ve been a chance that they had been ranked #1 at the end of the year. Alas, they laid an egg in Brookings as you mentioned.

But not before they beat Central Michigan and the Gophs.
 

TrapperDoo

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St. Johns voted “let them stay”. I think for St. Johns its like Batman and The Joker. Hate? What would I be without you? This game draws 40k.
 
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