Evidence of Structural Racism

Nokomis

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I don't see how either of these are racism? Classism for sure, but racism? I'd bet property owners are willing to show Jason Tatum, or Cam Newton any apartment they like.
I wouldn't be so sure. A couple black NFL players documented their banking experience a while back. They didn't have the name recognition of Cam Newton but certainly that NFL money.
 

Section2

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In general, I agree. I don't think most people are overtly racist. But there are implicit biases and structural things.
There are implicit biases against jews and asians as well. And against fat people. And against frat bros. and against ugly people.
 

BarnBurner

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I'm just recalling previous things I've heard/read, so don't have a link. But disproportionately less access to local branches in some neighborhoods, for example. Profiling, redlining, worse terms, things like that.
Close family in banking. Absolutely not tolerated by the institution. Limited, perhaps. Wide spread, nope.
 

bga1

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I don't think broad issues like tax reform or immigration will do much because those structural things are still in place. We need more targeted reform. And frankly, we can't wait around for the federal government to do anything meaningful. Ideally, leave it up to state & local governments to figure out, with hopefully some broad guidelines from federal.
You don't have to wonder what tax reform and deregulation does- you can go to the stats! Black unemployment hit and all time low and black wages soared under Trump until Covid. Then when the Covid lock downs hit, guess who lost their jobs first? Yep.

Same with immigration, you don't even need to think about it. What happens to basic supply and demand when there are 10 million people in the country who are willing to accept below the radar income ?

What "structural changes" would you make?

In my view, keep the family together, go to school, do your studies, get a degree, don't have kids out of wedlock, stay out of jail. Do those things are zero reforms are needed. The problems end themselves. Don't do those things and you can reform and reform and reform and all you are doing is moving the deck chairs on the titanic.
 

bga1

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I don't know about St. Paul, but much of this was NOT done by Minneapolis residents.
Evidence please. Even if there were outside instigators it was all done by the left (your folks that are so excited about justice) and with the full cooperation of the locals. If the locals were not there to help- it doesn't happen.
 

STPGopher

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STPGopher

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Evidence please. Even if there were outside instigators it was all done by the left (your folks that are so excited about justice) and with the full cooperation of the locals. If the locals were not there to help- it doesn't happen.
Who are "my folks"?

I am not doing your work for you anymore. Look at previous posts in previous threads from myself and others.
 

bga1

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What do you guys think of open enrollment for public schools? In general, I'm against it. Parents with the means transport their kids to a better school, while the local school continues to struggle. I prefer people stay in their district and improve their local schools. I've lived in both Mpls & Rochester, though my kids were too young to attend Mpls schools. Mpls has open enrollment; Rochester does not. Maybe my thoughts would change if I had kids in Mpls schools. But I do like that Rochester is not open enrollment. Some schools certainly still struggle more than others, but overall it seems more equitable and diverse.

I also don't think school funding should be tied to property taxes. The rich get richer.
Either way you are going to have open enrollment. If you force people with jobs and a future to send their kids to rotten schools- they will move out to a different district. Then you will start to collect less taxes. Those who do well and do the right things should prosper and benefit from it.

If you do better work at your job do you expect to get paid better than the person next to you that is a slacker? Darn right you do. You wouldn't be happy if the boss gave your raise to him to equalize things. Why would you expect people to have higher taxes and then get their funding for schools send somewhere else? Think it through. You are on the highway to socialistic thinking....which sounds beautiful and never works.
 

bga1

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Who are "my folks"?

I am not doing your work for you anymore. Look at previous posts in previous threads from myself and others.
If you are a lefty....those are your people. Own it if so. If I am wrong that you are a Dem then I apologize, perhaps I have you confused with another poster??
 

golf

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It's economics, not racism. It's frsutrating to me, because it seems to obvious. We've been doing it since 2017 & the results speak for themselves. Bring manufacturing back to the inner cities & employ people in low skilled, good paying, career jobs. Under Trump, non-supervisory wages rose faster than supervisory wages for the 1st time in 10 years, and then it rose 3 straight years, plus was on track for a fourth straight year when Covid blew it up. That's how you bridge the income gap. The 3 jobs that grew the fastest in that period were truck drivers, construction workers & manufacturing. All jobs a poor, inner city Black guy with a HS diploma can get, that also pay well. They pay so well in fact, that tens of thousands of Blacks came off the unemployment rolls to take those jobs. People will not leave welfare for a job paying $10 p/h. There's just no incentive. What we learned is that those same people will come off the dole for a job paying $25 p/h. It lowered Black unemployment to the lowest rate in US history. Now, imagine when the UCMCA kicks in & all those new factories have to be built & staffed! You don't have to like Trump, but a fair minded person who cares about inner city Blacks, must admit the Trump admin did very well for Blacks economically. The best thing Biden could do is promise more of the same.
Good post. Lots of good facts there and of course there are tons of facts regarding the economy's strength the last four years. Yet, you will never hear stats such as yours in the media. If they are mentioned, obama gets the credit.
 

bga1

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In general, I agree. I don't think most people are overtly racist. But there are implicit biases and structural things. And yes, anything we can do to create jobs is good.
Like Trump did?
 

STPGopher

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If you are a lefty....those are your people. Own it if so. If I am wrong that you are a Dem then I apologize, perhaps I have you confused with another poster??
What exactly is a lefty? If it is calling for the reform of bad policing then I guess I am a lefty.
 

bga1

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It's economics, not racism. It's frsutrating to me, because it seems to obvious. We've been doing it since 2017 & the results speak for themselves. Bring manufacturing back to the inner cities & employ people in low skilled, good paying, career jobs. Under Trump, non-supervisory wages rose faster than supervisory wages for the 1st time in 10 years, and then it rose 3 straight years, plus was on track for a fourth straight year when Covid blew it up. That's how you bridge the income gap. The 3 jobs that grew the fastest in that period were truck drivers, construction workers & manufacturing. All jobs a poor, inner city Black guy with a HS diploma can get, that also pay well. They pay so well in fact, that tens of thousands of Blacks came off the unemployment rolls to take those jobs. People will not leave welfare for a job paying $10 p/h. There's just no incentive. What we learned is that those same people will come off the dole for a job paying $25 p/h. It lowered Black unemployment to the lowest rate in US history. Now, imagine when the UCMCA kicks in & all those new factories have to be built & staffed! You don't have to like Trump, but a fair minded person who cares about inner city Blacks, must admit the Trump admin did very well for Blacks economically. The best thing Biden could do is promise more of the same.
What an amazing thing it would be if everyone actually understood what you just said. What if this were in the media where the masses could digest it. Maybe there would be less anger and more hope!
Maybe things would actually change.
 

bga1

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What exactly is a lefty? If it is calling for the reform of bad policing then I guess I am a lefty.
There is no systemic reform needed- if you go by the statistics. Blacks are not violently targeted by police by comparison to whites. Fact. The Floyd murder was an anomaly not a systemic thing. Everyone agrees that it was wrong and justice was going to occur and it will. There are problems with certain police and certainly I don't like the idea of police or teachers unions (Democrat supported ideas). It makes it so that you can't get rid of the bad ones. If getting rid of public teacher unions and public police unions is a reform you have in mind - then I'm with you. But the police in general are a force for good and I am very appreciative of the job they do.

The real reform we need is keeping the black family together and for that matter, white families. It all starts there. It won't start with papering over the problems with "police reform". That's going to fail as the solution. That is certain.
 

John Galt

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I don't know about St. Paul, but much of this was NOT done by Minneapolis residents.
We can debate who threw the first Molotov cocktail. Regardless, Minneapolis residents weren't doing much of anything to protect their city and stop the destruction and looting.
 

STPGopher

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There is no systemic reform needed- if you go by the statistics. Blacks are not violently targeted by police by comparison to whites. Fact. The Floyd murder was an anomaly not a systemic thing. Everyone agrees that it was wrong and justice was going to occur and it will. There are problems with certain police and certainly I don't like the idea of police or teachers unions (Democrat supported ideas). It makes it so that you can't get rid of the bad ones. If getting rid of public teacher unions and public police unions is a reform you have in mind - then I'm with you. But the police in general are a force for good and I am very appreciative of the job they do.

The real reform we need is keeping the black family together and for that matter, white families. It all starts there. It won't start with papering over the problems with "police reform". That's going to fail as the solution. That is certain.
That is your opinion. You are entitled to it. I am talking about "my" little space in this world. "We"(meaning our household) pay taxes for our household. "We" vote. "We" have the right to reach out to elected representatives and let our voices be heard.


Regarding families, and education for that matter, It has been discussed ad-nauseum. "We" have literally been supporting families of ALL backrounds/ cultures for decades utilizing many vehicles including faith based and secular. It's illogical to assume that just because someone is anti-bad policing that they are anti-family.
 

STPGopher

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We can debate who threw the first Molotov cocktail. Regardless, Minneapolis residents weren't doing much of anything to protect their city and stop the destruction and looting.
"We" the people of Longfellow respectfully disagree. WCCO even showed what "we" were doing. Many sleepless nights patrolling our blocks.

With that said, we agree to disagree.
 

John Galt

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"We" the people of Longfellow respectfully disagree. WCCO even showed what "we" were doing. Many sleepless nights patrolling our blocks.

With that said, we agree to disagree.
Sorry - I must have missed you defending the 3rd precinct.
 

bga1

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That is your opinion. You are entitled to it. I am talking about "my" little space in this world. "We"(meaning our household) pay taxes for our household. "We" vote. "We" have the right to reach out to elected representatives and let our voices be heard.


Regarding families, and education for that matter, It has been discussed ad-nauseum. "We" have literally been supporting families of ALL backrounds/ cultures for decades utilizing many vehicles including faith based and secular. It's illogical to assume that just because someone is anti-bad policing that they are anti-family.
Got it and I have done the same although I don't include secular vehicles because I don't trust them. That's not to say that there aren't good ones but I go where I can see the results more personally.

The problem I see STP is not that there isn't SOME bad policing. There is. There are some bad teachers, bad business people, bad employees and certainly tons of bad politicians. That's because this is the human race- flawed and sinful. There is not systemic racism. There are racists. You don't root them out with public unions.

Worse yet you don't paper over the real problem of broken families, poverty, low graduation and achievement by elevating police or system racism as the problem. Those aren't the problems. The core behaviors are the problems. When you make excuses then you don't ever solve the real problems.

If nothing more is done out of this than police reform then we all know what is going to happen next. More black deaths and more black poverty. Yes, more than before this started.
 

Nokomis

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Like Trump did?
Look, I'm not interested in another never-ending Trump vs. Obama debate. There are countless other threads on this board that do that. I raised a few specific things I've heard that could bring about structural changes. If you want to discuss those, great! But I won't bite on the rehashed D vs. R stuff.
 

Nokomis

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food deserts! Haha, that's priceless.
What? You don't think it's an issue? We have a fast food chain on every block, but you have to go to a supermarket to find anything the resembles nutritious food. And even then, it's expensive. It's much cheaper and easier to eat unhealthily. How do we make nutritious food cheaper and more accessible? Grocery delivery services might be a good option.
 

bga1

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Look, I'm not interested in another never-ending Trump vs. Obama debate. There are countless other threads on this board that do that. I raised a few specific things I've heard that could bring about structural changes. If you want to discuss those, great! But I won't bite on the rehashed D vs. R stuff.
It's not a Trump versus Obama note that I gave. It is a market driven economy as a solution versus government led programs (which don't work). Trump let the market loose and blacks got employed.
 

Nokomis

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Close family in banking. Absolutely not tolerated by the institution. Limited, perhaps. Wide spread, nope.
Ahh.... What about Wells Fargo? They've recently paid out some large settlements, as STP has pointed out and linked.
 

Section2

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What? You don't think it's an issue? We have a fast food chain on every block, but you have to go to a supermarket to find anything the resembles nutritious food. And even then, it's expensive. It's much cheaper and easier to eat unhealthily. How do we make nutritious food cheaper and more accessible? Grocery delivery services might be a good option.
supply and demand my friend. the kind of food you wish people in inner cities would eat is not what they want. it's not about price, and it's not about access.
 

bga1

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Ahh.... What about Wells Fargo? They've recently paid out some large settlements, as STP has pointed out and linked.
Amazing that the system corrected that. There are always bad players. There is no longer systemic racism at play. As CRG states, it is an economic issue that we are dealing with.
 

howeda7

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Does he mean police reform like the GOP has put forth but the Dems refuse to work on? Or not that kind of police reform?
There's a compromise that can be reached on this. The R proposal is mostly to "study" this and "look at" that. That doesn't really get us anywhere either. It's "there we did something, now leave us alone!"
 

howeda7

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I don't see how either of these are racism? Classism for sure, but racism? I'd bet property owners are willing to show Jason Tatum, or Cam Newton any apartment they like.
There's a point at which $$ overcomes almost anything. That is not really relevant here though. It's not about Joe Blow vs. Cam Newton.
 

howeda7

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According to Richard Sherman, Cam Newton is being discriminated against by the NFL b/c his contract is full of contingencies and he is being under paid.

Poor Cam Newton. Poor poor much injured, Cam Newton. The Patriots want to make sure they don’t pay a load of money for him to be on the sidelines in street clothes and the NFL is discriminating against him.

There is no end to tearing down statues that the left doesn’t like, there is no end to re-imagining our wretched America, and there is no end to racism against black multi-millionaires.
Richard Sherman has a big mouth and says a lot of things. Not sure it was rant-worthy. Relax.
 

howeda7

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Should we look at bail reform? Those with the means can post bail; those that can't stay in jail. And then of course we get into bail bonds, loan sharks, and bounty hunters.
This is something that should be looked at. Also decriminalization of pot. Virginia just did so and it is now a civil penalty for possession up to a certain amount. The dealers will still go to jail.
 
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