Evangelical Lutheran Church just became America's first 'sanctuary church body"

Nokomis

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So you see the Bible as the truth but see the individual churches as fallible? If so- we agree. Many progressives view the Bible as one story, Islam has another, Buddhism is another and they are all equal with each prog making their choice- so that's not you?
Would you further agree that Jesus is the one true vine (no other route to salvation exists) and the salvation to those who accept him as Lord?

Homosexuality is not part of God's natural design. The Bible is clear on that. Abomination is the word used- that's pretty strong, perhaps more than a suggestion. Sin came into the world and set a lot of things in motion but that did not change right and wrong. By the same token, despite the promiscuity and unusual happenings described in the Bible, monogamous marriage one man, one woman was God's plan and not to be broken. It is no more a sin to be having sex in a homosexual relationship than it is to have sex outside of marriage. It is all sin and it puts us all in need of Christ's sacrifice, should we accept it.
Yes, we agree. But you're conflating again (or maybe you're saying progs are conflating). The Bible is not a religion. Islam, Buddism, Lutheranism are. Bible is truth; religions are fallible. There, I think we settled that one.

Now this is where we diverge on a core believe. Yes, Jesus is the vine to salvation. But not only to those who accept it. Yeah, I know, John 3: 16 etc, etc. But I interpret that passage within the broader context to include salvation for all, whether they acknowledge it or not. I don't expect you to change you're belief; you may very well be right. But I'm not changing mine. That difference probably informs a lot of our other differences.

Ok, back to homosexuality. I don't see the Bible as clear as you suggest. I prefer to err on the side of inclusivity and love. Otherwise, we start to sound like we're speaking on behalf of God, which you and Paul warned against.
 

Nokomis

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Apologies. You are younger than I assumed. Perhaps in 15-20 years you can run for President! Jimmy Carter? Tsk Tsk. You Prog leftist.

My only point is that both sides have made abortion this divisive issue to drive out voters, but nothing has fundamentally changed since 1973. Yet we still argue over it bitterly every election cycle instead of pursuing things that would actually reduce the # of unwanted pregnancies and actually address the issue. They just want it as a base motivator.
I can't tell; is this a howie truth or fact? Either way, he's right. Both sides use abortion as a bellwether and litmus test. But one is actively working within the confines of the law to curb unwanted pregnancies.
 
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Section2

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Evangelical Lutheran Church just became America's first 'sanctuary church body"

I can't tell; is this a howie truth or fact? Either way, he's right. Both sides use abortion as a bellwether and litmus test. But one is actively working within the confines of the law to curb unwanted pregnancies.
As leftist culture has become mainstream in the US starting in the 60s, both unwanted pregnancies and abortion have exploded. You may not want either, but the policies and values of the left have resulted in them nonetheless.


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Section2

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Apologies. You are younger than I assumed. Perhaps in 15-20 years you can run for President! Jimmy Carter? Tsk Tsk. You Prog leftist.

My only point is that both sides have made abortion this divisive issue to drive out voters, but nothing has fundamentally changed since 1973. Yet we still argue over it bitterly every election cycle instead of pursuing things that would actually reduce the # of unwanted pregnancies and actually address the issue. They just want it as a base motivator.
The issue is Roe v Wade. The solution is states rights. Then it’s no longer a national wedge issue.


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bga1

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I can't tell; is this a howie truth or fact? Either way, he's right. Both sides use abortion as a bellwether and litmus test. But one is actively working within the confines of the law to curb unwanted pregnancies.
Correction the Dems are working to curb unwanted babies. Another beautiful consequence of the progressive ideology is that much of the left doesn't want a family at all any more..."why ruin the planet with more people?"
 

bga1

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Yes, we agree. But you're conflating again (or maybe you're saying progs are conflating). The Bible is not a religion. Islam, Buddism, Lutheranism are. Bible is truth; religions are fallible. There, I think we settled that one.

Now this is where we diverge on a core believe. Yes, Jesus is the vine to salvation. But not only to those who accept it. Yeah, I know, John 3: 16 etc, etc. But I interpret that passage within the broader context to include salvation for all, whether they acknowledge it or not. I don't expect you to change you're belief; you may very well be right. But I'm not changing mine. That difference probably informs a lot of our other differences.

Ok, back to homosexuality. I don't see the Bible as clear as you suggest. I prefer to err on the side of inclusivity and love. Otherwise, we start to sound like we're speaking on behalf of God, which you and Paul warned against.
Good close to this one. We agree to disagree on some things and we agree on some things. It has been enjoyable having a reasoned discussion with you on it!
 

saintpaulguy

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saintpaulguy

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It does kind of come down to what your plan is. Reducing teen births and reducing abortions is a good thing. If it also includes they should have no sex, well, a lot of human history is against you.
 

justthefacts

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Guys, guys, guys. If you want to truly and deeply understand Christianity, you should listen to noted Biblical scholar, Reverend Donald Trump

 

Section2

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Section2

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It does kind of come down to what your plan is. Reducing teen births and reducing abortions is a good thing. If it also includes they should have no sex, well, a lot of human history is against you.
Not no sex. Sex within marriage and mainly for procreation. That’s the formula for the most successful societies in history. Cmon, you must know this stuff.


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bottlebass

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Not no sex. Sex within marriage and mainly for procreation. That’s the formula for the most successful societies in history. Cmon, you must know this stuff.


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LOLOLOLOL

Now you want to tell people they can only have sex for procreation? WTF is wrong with you? This post will live for a while as the dumbest statement.
 

bga1

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Guys, guys, guys. If you want to truly and deeply understand Christianity, you should listen to noted Biblical scholar, Reverend Donald Trump

Trump as the nation's pastor? NO thanks. I voted for him as president when he was running against a crook. I turns out that my vote got me an excellent President! Too bad for you- you lost. Put up an honest candidate next time- it might be too late for your party - the racist Dem Party. Do you think they should change the name of the party since it was once called the white man's party and they backed slavery?
 

Section2

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LOLOLOLOL

Now you want to tell people they can only have sex for procreation? WTF is wrong with you? This post will live for a while as the dumbest statement.
No dumbass. I"m not telling anyone anything. I'm telling you what the formula was for the most successful societies in history.
 

bottlebass

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No dumbass. I"m not telling anyone anything. I'm telling you what the formula was for the most successful societies in history.
The US is arguably the most successful society in history. We definitely weren't build on the formula of only having sex for procreation. Are you really going to dig in on this stupid comment? What are some other successful societies.... Romans? Yep they totally only had sex in marriage for procreation :rolleyes:
 

Section2

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The US is arguably the most successful society in history. We definitely weren't build on the formula of only having sex for procreation. Are you really going to dig in on this stupid comment? What are some other successful societies.... Romans? Yep they totally only had sex in marriage for procreation :rolleyes:
I said sex within marriage and mainly for procreation. Free love and sex for recreation has only been a part of US society since the 60s and has been a miserable failure.

I think you have a great deal to learn about history.
 
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bottlebass

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I said sex within marriage and mainly for procreation. Free love and sex for recreation has only been a part of US society since the 60s and has been a miserable failure.

I think you have a great deal to learn about history.
Your history ignores brothels evidently.

You don't think people had sex for fun before the 60s? How F'n stupid are you going to get today?
 

Section2

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Your history ignores brothels evidently.

You don't think people had sex for fun before the 60s? How F'n stupid are you going to get today?
Why are you so dumb? Of course, there have been prostitutes in every city in every era in the history of the world. What is the culture, what are the societal values, what are the sexual mores? What is socially acceptable and what is socially unacceptable? It doesn't mean no one had sex for fun. It doesn't mean no one had sex outside marriage.

Why are some societies throughout history successful and most not?

I'm done with you today.
 

bga1

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Your history ignores brothels evidently.

You don't think people had sex for fun before the 60s? How F'n stupid are you going to get today?
You are going full scale Howie here attempting to reframe what he said. Not a smart look.
 

bottlebass

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Why are you so dumb? Of course, there have been prostitutes in every city in every era in the history of the world. What is the culture, what are the societal values, what are the sexual mores? What is socially acceptable and what is socially unacceptable? It doesn't mean no one had sex for fun. It doesn't mean no one had sex outside marriage.

Why are some societies throughout history successful and most not?

I'm done with you today.
Definitely because their citizens only had sex for pro creation, no fun sex was ever acceptable ever!
 
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