ESPN: Grand Valley State suspends OC Morris Berger for wanting meal with Adolf Hitler

GopherDog1

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Germany started 2 World Wars (lost both) and were responsible for millions of people's death in each war. I call that poor leadership at least and the most horrific crime against humanity ever. This coach is an idiot.
 

Panthadad2

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I'm not going to read all 9 pages of this thread, but regardless of "free speech", the coach showed a total lack of social awareness by the comment - something that's extremely important in a high profile job at a college. He picked the single one name that probably gets him fired and didn't qualify it. He could have picked terrible figures throughout history like Attila the Hun, Bloody Mary, Idi Amin, Stalin, Genghis Khan, etc. and probably gets the raised eyebrow but nothing else. But Hitler? C'mon man!
 

RodentRampage

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He praised his leadership skills that enabled those things to happen. If Hitler is your idea of a good leader, I wouldn't want you as my OC.
There are uncountably many other examples of leadership that he could have come up with. If someone thinks leadership and Hitler is what comes to mind, there's something seriously wrong with that person.
 

MNVCGUY

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This isn't a "modern way of handling things." Do you really think there was a time when praising Hitler was considered acceptable?
The difference between now and in the past is that with the internet and the speed in which things are spread a story like this blows up Nationally and draws a lot of attention. Prior to the internet there may have been some local outrage from students are community members but the story probably doesn't get any sort of National attention.

The knee jerk reaction in this day and age is much much faster. And there is a general tendency to overreact before all the details are available.

He could have picked Hitler but calling him a "Great Leader" is tough to come back from.
 

RodentRampage

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The difference between now and in the past is that with the internet and the speed in which things are spread a story like this blows up Nationally and draws a lot of attention. Prior to the internet there may have been some local outrage from students are community members but the story probably doesn't get any sort of National attention.

The knee jerk reaction in this day and age is much much faster. And there is a general tendency to overreact before all the details are available.

He could have picked Hitler but calling him a "Great Leader" is tough to come back from.
In the past, the headline in the local paper would have read "Football coach praises Hitler's leadership." Immediately followed by angry WWII veterans showing up at the Dean's office.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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I'm not going to read all 9 pages of this thread, but regardless of "free speech", the coach showed a total lack of social awareness by the comment - something that's extremely important in a high profile job at a college. He picked the single one name that probably gets him fired and didn't qualify it. He could have picked terrible figures throughout history like Attila the Hun, Bloody Mary, Idi Amin, Stalin, Genghis Khan, etc. and probably gets the raised eyebrow but nothing else. But Hitler? C'mon man!
I don't disagree it was stupid, but he absolutely did qualify it.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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This isn't a "modern way of handling things." Do you really think there was a time when praising Hitler was considered acceptable?
The modern way is to refuse to read any context at all. Yes, there were times where you could say that Hitler was a terrible person but a good leader without being fired. You are reframing the conversation away from what he actually said.

It would not take you very long to find people who made quotes similarly praising his leadership or ability to rally a crowd while also absolutely condemning the person and the acts.
 

RodentRampage

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The modern way is to refuse to read any context at all. Yes, there were times where you could say that Hitler was a terrible person but a good leader without being fired. You are reframing the conversation away from what he actually said.

It would not take you very long to find people who made quotes similarly praising his leadership or ability to rally a crowd while also absolutely condemning the person and the acts.
All that spin must make you dizzy.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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All that spin must make you dizzy.
Thank you for precisely making my point! The modern way of thinking is to avoid nuance and context at all cost. I laid out a fairly simple premise that didn't fit into your narrative and you punt. Kudos and thank you for making my point!
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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In the past, the headline in the local paper would have read "Football coach praises Hitler's leadership." Immediately followed by angry WWII veterans showing up at the Dean's office.
Seriously if someone didn't manage to put a lid on it ... shit would have hit the fan in the past too.

A lot of time "People these days are way more sensitive about X" really means "I'm not sensitive to X and it must be some other people's problem..."

Humans are humans, they behave for the same reasons they always have.

I mean can you belive all the selfies:



And people taking pictures of their food these days?!?!?:


 

RodentRampage

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Thank you for precisely making my point! The modern way of thinking is to avoid nuance and context at all cost. I laid out a fairly simple premise that didn't fit into your narrative and you punt. Kudos and thank you for making my point!
You laid out a faulty premise. In the past, sure, people would discuss the strengths and weaknesses of Hitler's leadership abilities, if they were talking about the history of the Third Reich. It would be much more difficult to find people praising Hitler's out of the blue, let alone listing Hitler as someone they would like to have dinner with. I don't believe there was any decade where listing Hitler as someone you'd like to have dinner with would ever have gone over well.
 

Veritas

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Germany started 2 World Wars (lost both) and were responsible for millions of people's death in each war. I call that poor leadership at least and the most horrific crime against humanity ever. This coach is an idiot.
You are writing about Hitler's behavior in the period 1938-1945. Hitler came to power by getting the German people to vote for him and widely support him from 1926 through 1941. How did he do that in the most educated, most civilized country in Europe? But, perhaps, that is too nuanced for the average gutt reaction many have taken. Hitler was a very bad man, but he got huge numbers of people to support him. How?
 

RodentRampage

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You are writing about Hitler's behavior in the period 1938-1945. Hitler came to power by getting the German people to vote for him and widely support him from 1926 through 1941. How did he do that in the most educated, most civilized country in Europe? But, perhaps, that is too nuanced for the average gutt reaction many have taken. Hitler was a very bad man, but he got huge numbers of people to support him. How?
Hitler's rise to power ought to be a cautionary tale, not someone to emulate.
 

STPGopher

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You are writing about Hitler's behavior in the period 1938-1945. Hitler came to power by getting the German people to vote for him and widely support him from 1926 through 1941. How did he do that in the most educated, most civilized country in Europe? But, perhaps, that is too nuanced for the average gutt reaction many have taken. Hitler was a very bad man, but he got huge numbers of people to support him. How?
Too funny. Perhaps the Volleyball coach should say he'd love to have lunch with Ted Bundy so he could learn how Bundy was able to persuade so many young women...

The number is growing...
 

GopherDog1

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You are writing about Hitler's behavior in the period 1938-1945. Hitler came to power by getting the German people to vote for him and widely support him from 1926 through 1941. How did he do that in the most educated, most civilized country in Europe? But, perhaps, that is too nuanced for the average gutt reaction many have taken. Hitler was a very bad man, but he got huge numbers of people to support him. How?
How is irrelevant. The fact that he used tactics to motivate a country to commit such atrocities against the world should never be allowed to happen again, ever. No thought or sentence consisting of context trying to validate Nazis or Hitler should be taken as credible.
 

Veritas

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How is irrelevant. The fact that he used tactics to motivate a country to commit such atrocities against the world should never be allowed to happen again, ever. No thought or sentence consisting of context trying to validate Nazis or Hitler should be taken as credible.
Who did that? Not him, not me, not anyone. I repeat, it is absurd to try to tell people what they can say in a free country when that which they are saying is not against the law. Does that hurt your feelings? Too bad. Grow a pair.
 

Veritas

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Too funny. Perhaps the Volleyball coach should say he'd love to have lunch with Ted Bundy so he could learn how Bundy was able to persuade so many young women...

The number is growing...
If so, so what?
 

Pompous Elitist

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The amount of over the top righteous indignation in this thread..

Persuasion, motivation, “brainwashing” are real things that can be constructive or destructive depending on the leader, eg past and present religion and religious sects (let’s not go into those deep weeds) motivation, persuasion, groupthink being useful for various activities, some which could be construed as negative (can you think of any) Other purposes like service to family, community, self are positive effects.

Listening to the team (and some fans) I sense a little bit of “programming” but it is entirely positive.

Listening to politicians and their nutjob followers (and we all know people that are REALLY into politics in a scary way) it isn’t hard to see how things can go sideways if a critical mass of hate is cultivated.
 
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Bob_Loblaw

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Praising someone's leadership implies that their is at least some aspects of that person to emulate.
Of course.

I also think Genghis Khan was great a riding a horse. I think Vlad the Impaler and Stalin had great mustaches. Napoleon was a brilliant tactician. By all account, Kim Jong Il was a great golfer. Osama Bin Laden was a fantastic organizer. Aaron Hernandez was a fantastic football player.

Are you still pretending that atrocious people can't be good at things?
 

Pompous Elitist

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Yeah, the word “great” doesn’t necessarily mean what some are implying. Words can have nuance. It could mean effective, or noteworthy, or ability to effect widespread change which aren’t necessarily positive.
 

Veritas

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The amount of over the top righteous indignation in this thread..

Persuasion, motivation, “brainwashing” are real things that can be constructive or destructive depending on the leader, eg past and present religion and religious sects (let’s not go into those deep weeds) motivation, persuasion, groupthink being useful for various activities, some which could be construed as negative (can you think of any) Other purposes like service to family, community, self are positive effects.

Listening to the team (and some fans) I sense a little bit of “programming” but it is entirely positive.

Listening to politicians and their nutjob followers (and we all know people that are REALLY into politics in a scary way) it isn’t hard to see how things can go sideways if a critical mass of hate is cultivated.
I fail to see where that is what is happening by this man's comments. Instead I see thought control in action. Nothing he said constituted anything like hate speech or an Orwellian attempt at admiring Hitler. I get very leary of those who want to ban "bad" speech while saying they support "free" speech. What they too often mean today is you are free to say whatever I want you to say.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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You laid out a faulty premise. In the past, sure, people would discuss the strengths and weaknesses of Hitler's leadership abilities, if they were talking about the history of the Third Reich. It would be much more difficult to find people praising Hitler's out of the blue, let alone listing Hitler as someone they would like to have dinner with. I don't believe there was any decade where listing Hitler as someone you'd like to have dinner with would ever have gone over well.
What premise did I lay out that was faulty? My premise was that I believe someone could have said "Hitler is a bad person but was a great leader" without being fired.
 

MplsGopher

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I also think Genghis Khan was great a riding a horse. I think Vlad the Impaler and Stalin had great mustaches. Napoleon was a brilliant tactician. By all account, Kim Jong Il was a great golfer. Osama Bin Laden was a fantastic organizer. Aaron Hernandez was a fantastic football player.
None of these is even close to "Hitler was a great leader."

Specious argument, for what I can only assume is your own entertainment.
 

GopherPoke

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Do any of you ever think what a night out to dinner with all Gopherhole regular posters would be like? I think it would be absolutely hilarious. I am not sure if I'd like everyone beyond belief, or hate them to the core. Threads like these are just amazing. Anyway, hope you all have a good weekend. Can't wait for Sea Salt Eatery to open again.
 

Hotdish

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This is probably not going to get a good review, but I would have gone with Joseph Stalin. It was obviously very sad and he had bad motives, but the way he was able to lead was second-to-none. How he rallied a group and a following, I want to know how he did that. Bad intentions of course, but you can't deny he wasn't a great leader.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Do any of you ever think what a night out to dinner with all Gopherhole regular posters would be like? I think it would be absolutely hilarious. I am not sure if I'd like everyone beyond belief, or hate them to the core. Threads like these are just amazing. Anyway, hope you all have a good weekend. Can't wait for Sea Salt Eatery to open again.
I think people who hate each other on here would be shocked at how well they get along in person.
 
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