Doogie talks Pitino fate, interesting Matthew Hurt analysis, skeptical of 2020

BleedGopher

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Doogie was on with Judd and PMac yesterday (h/t EG#9 for the heads up on this) and Doogie dropped some interesting tid-bits:

- Doogie started off the Gopher talk transitioning from Wolves/Hoiberg talk and threw out the question of whether there is a better chance of Hoiberg coaching the Gophers or the Wolves.

- Judd said that in talking to Chip, that in Chip's discussions with Mark Coyle that Pitino is in "zero jeopardy" of losing his job.

- Doogie said "right now, today" he agrees he's not in jeopardy but "let's see how the season plays out"

- Doogie started talking about recruiting, said lot of swing and misses, and said that in 2016 Minnesota got "lucky with Amir" and reiterated a point that Doogie has probably said at least 20 times that if Hoiberg had stayed at ISU that Amir was going there. "You got lucky but you still got Amir Coffey."

- Doogie gave credit to the 2018 class of Oturu/Omersa/Klascheuer, but he has "swung and missed on a ton of 2019 kids and he will swing and miss on Matthew Hurt."

- Doogie said: "I am not dismissing the idea that Matthew Hurt will ever play for the Gophers or that he will play for the Gophers next year, but I am pretty much dismissing the idea that Matthew Hurt will play for Richard Pitino. I'm just saying, we all like Richard Pitino in this room, we all know him pretty well personally, I like him. I'd have a beer with Richard any day of the week. I really enjoy his company, and hey it's my Alma Mater so I can have a bias, but for Richard's sake as I like him personally, I hope he ends up with 11 Big Ten wins, wins an NCAA Tournament game and is the coach next year, I really do. I hope that, but I'm looking at it logically and seeing the Big Ten is going to be a grind, getting to 10 victories in the Big Ten is going to be tough...if you make the Tournament and you are 1 and done, would Coyle look at someone like Eric Mussleman or Fred Hoiberg. I'm just saying, it's worth watching."

- Doogie said you look at some of the 2020 kids, "Walton from Hopkins, Suggs, Dainja, Carlson, Garcia, do I like Pitino's chances to get 2 of those guys? No, maybe 1, but I don't like his chances to get 2. You gotta get some of these local kids, you really do."

http://www.1500espn.com/mackey-judd-ondemand/

Go Gophers!!
 

Frank Grimey Grimes

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Doogie: "I'm a sensitive prick and know next to nothing but I enjoy hearing myself talk and like to backpedal as I am often wrong".
 

Bad Gopher

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I think there's a way to triangulate what we're getting between Chip and Doogie, and I think it's coherent and makes sense - and more or less jibes with what I've been thinking myself. I do agree with Chip that Richard's safe this year, barring an inexplicable collapse, even if they don't make the NCAAs. That said, his major crisis comes later. It's not hard to see the storm clouds on the horizon considering how poorly recruiting seems to be going for 2019 and 2020. I don't see a long-term improvement in the offing over the 35% conference winning percentage to date, and that shouldn't be considered acceptable at the U.
 

JimmyJamesMD

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I think there's a way to triangulate what we're getting between Chip and Doogie, and I think it's coherent and makes sense - and more or less jibes with what I've been thinking myself. I do agree with Chip that Richard's safe this year, barring an inexplicable collapse, even if they don't make the NCAAs. That said, his major crisis comes later. It's not hard to see the storm clouds on the horizon considering how poorly recruiting seems to be going for 2019 and 2020. I don't see a long-term improvement in the offing over the 35% conference winning percentage to date, and that shouldn't be considered acceptable at the U.
For one, I dont believe anything Doogie says.

For two, yes BG, this poor recruiting will catch up to Pitino soon unless he turns it around soon. Hurt would help. Also, 2020 may be better because the assistants will finally have some footing here.
 

manderson1984

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My thing with 2020 is that we have two brand new staff members who are involved in recruiting. 2020 should look gloomy because those guys are rebuilding relationships that they had previously with Ben and Kimani. Sadly we won't have a good indication until after this year. If we win games, that'll help, if we don't time to move on. I'm not so sure Musselman would even come here though. I think he'd hold out for UCLA or USC honestly and would prefer to stay out west. Hoiberg would be a maybe, but not a slam dunk either and he may want to wait and see what happens at the Wolves. EIther way Doogie gets bites for stirring up the pot and that's all he's doing here.
 

scools12

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With regards to Pitino’s job status Doggie didn’t say anything new. GHolers have posted the same take and could’ve gone on with Judd & PMac and said the same thing.


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matt

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If Doogie doesn't think Hurt is coming here then I like our chance even more.
 

Keyser Söze

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I think there's a way to triangulate what we're getting between Chip and Doogie, and I think it's coherent and makes sense - and more or less jibes with what I've been thinking myself. I do agree with Chip that Richard's safe this year, barring an inexplicable collapse, even if they don't make the NCAAs. That said, his major crisis comes later. It's not hard to see the storm clouds on the horizon considering how poorly recruiting seems to be going for 2019 and 2020. I don't see a long-term improvement in the offing over the 35% conference winning percentage to date, and that shouldn't be considered acceptable at the U.
Not sure what you mean by this. Why did you include 2020? Exactly 5% of the top 100 players in 2020 are committed somewhere. Are we doing poorly in 2025 since we don't have a commit for that class either?
 

Keyser Söze

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My thing with 2020 is that we have two brand new staff members who are involved in recruiting. 2020 should look gloomy because those guys are rebuilding relationships that they had previously with Ben and Kimani. Sadly we won't have a good indication until after this year. If we win games, that'll help, if we don't time to move on. I'm not so sure Musselman would even come here though. I think he'd hold out for UCLA or USC honestly and would prefer to stay out west. Hoiberg would be a maybe, but not a slam dunk either and he may want to wait and see what happens at the Wolves. EIther way Doogie gets bites for stirring up the pot and that's all he's doing here.
That's the case for most teams. We aren't close to the point of judging recruiting for our 2020 class.
 

jovs

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Not sure what you mean by this. Why did you include 2020? Exactly 5% of the top 100 players in 2020 are committed somewhere. Are we doing poorly in 2025 since we don't have a commit for that class either?
2019 is bad, I agree liots of time to catch up for 2020, still one aau season for those kids, has to be successful on the court though.
 

Cayman

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That's the case for most teams. We aren't close to the point of judging recruiting for our 2020 class.
Not to mention we've already gotten two official visits from out of state 4-star recruits for 2020.
 

Bad Gopher

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Not sure what you mean by this. Why did you include 2020? Exactly 5% of the top 100 players in 2020 are committed somewhere. Are we doing poorly in 2025 since we don't have a commit for that class either?
True, and well put.

That said, if Whalen is looking for a shooter in 2021, my niece isn't locked up yet.
 

Keyser Söze

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2019 is bad, I agree liots of time to catch up for 2020, still one aau season for those kids, has to be successful on the court though.
Yup, a good year this year and 2020 recruiting should be just fine with the potential to be very good given our instate talent.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

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I'm less interested in what I see on the recruiting trail, and more interest in what I see in terms of big ten record, NCAA tourney appearances, and NCAA tourney wins. 6 years in, we need to be winning on the hardwood, not on rivals.com.
 

Bad Gopher

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I'm less interested in what I see on the recruiting trail, and more interest in what I see in terms of big ten record, NCAA tourney appearances, and NCAA tourney wins. 6 years in, we need to be winning on the hardwood, not on rivals.com.
Those things are interrelated, of course. Nothing hurts recruiting worse than recruits noticing that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of winning going on. That's how Monson self-admittedly lost momentum.
 

Keyser Söze

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I'm less interested in what I see on the recruiting trail, and more interest in what I see in terms of big ten record, NCAA tourney appearances, and NCAA tourney wins. 6 years in, we need to be winning on the hardwood, not on rivals.com.
That's almost like saying you're interested in getting in shape, but not interested in working out. Recruiting influences results.
 

tmvander

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gophers just need some successful seasons in a row...last year screwed that up...if they can put a solid year in place this year followed by another one next year things will be headed in the right direction headed into 2020.
 

Bad Gopher

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gophers just need some successful seasons in a row...
No trying to ridicule, but isn't this always the objective...and the hard part? I mean, if it were as easy as saying, "All we need to do..." Reminds me of Steve Martin's "How to make a million dollars and not pay taxes" routine: "First you make a million dollars..."

Yes, we agree: Pitino's problem so far is that he hasn't had some successful seasons in a row. Other than that...
 

tmvander

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No trying to ridicule, but isn't this always the objective...and the hard part? I mean, if it were as easy as saying, "All we need to do..." Reminds me of Steve Martin's "How to make a million dollars and not pay taxes" routine: "First you make a million dollars..."

Yes, we agree: Pitino's problem so far is that he hasn't had some successful seasons in a row. Other than that...
Ok smart guy then what else does he need to do different to land the big in state recruits? If winning is too cliché of a response what is the non cliché answer? And please don't say offer them money haha
 

Bad Gopher

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Ok smart guy then what else does he need to do different to land the big in state recruits? If winning is too cliché of a response what is the non cliché answer? And please don't say offer them money haha
I tend to subscribe to what builtbadgers incessantly posts: you prove you can coach the hell out of what you have, optimize the wins with the talent you have, and you're going to become an attractive destination for recruits. The jury is still out as to whether Pitino has the potential to develop into that caliber of coach. Even those in this forum who are his biggest supporters admit that he's still a work in progress.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold

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That's almost like saying you're interested in getting in shape, but not interested in working out. Recruiting influences results.
Recruiting influences results, but so do other things. His recruiting matters in as much as it helps us win. 6 years in, the measure of his recruiting should be how well his classes win basketball games, not how good some third party website thinks they are.
 

tmvander

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I tend to subscribe to what builtbadgers incessantly posts: you prove you can coach the hell out of what you have, optimize the wins with the talent you have, and you're going to become an attractive destination for recruits. The jury is still out as to whether Pitino has the potential to develop into that caliber of coach. Even those in this forum who are his biggest supporters admit that he's still a work in progress.
Agree with this...Pitino has some serious red flags but he also has some things to sell.

He's had some rough rough years here but he has also coached a team largely dependent on Sun Belt commits to the NIT championship in 2014, a team dependent on a lot of 3* guys (Murphy, Mason, McBrayer) to a 5 seed in the NCAA tourney.

He's coached up a lot of players and he's completely struck out on a lot of players...jury is still out for sure as the wins/losses have been all over the place as well.
 

manderson1984

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I tend to subscribe to what builtbadgers incessantly posts: you prove you can coach the hell out of what you have, optimize the wins with the talent you have, and you're going to become an attractive destination for recruits. The jury is still out as to whether Pitino has the potential to develop into that caliber of coach. Even those in this forum who are his biggest supporters admit that he's still a work in progress.
I'd argue all coaches are always a work in progress. The second they stop growing or adapting is the second they fall into irrelevancy. I'd also argue that guys who develop and get a lot of talent still don't always recruit higher ranked kids either. Frank Martin would be an example of this. I'd even argue Greg Gard is an example too. Whiskey hasn't recruited great lately, but is still developing guys like Happ and recruit guys that fit the system.
 

CentralGopher

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Can't win without good recruits but can't get good recruits without winning. Ugh we're screwed lol. [emoji12]


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I'd argue all coaches are always a work in progress. The second they stop growing or adapting is the second they fall into irrelevancy. I'd also argue that guys who develop and get a lot of talent still don't always recruit higher ranked kids either. Frank Martin would be an example of this. I'd even argue Greg Gard is an example too. Whiskey hasn't recruited great lately, but is still developing guys like Happ and recruit guys that fit the system.
Honestly we know Wisconsin has a system to recruit to. I am not trying to be a smartazz but what is Minnesota's identity? What are the absolutes in your system? Controlling pace, transition defense, deliberate offense, fast break offense, a motion offense, a zone defense, Man to man, trapping? Low turnovers. All I see is throw it up and hope Murphy gets an offensive rebound. Recruiting just any 4 or 5 star recruit doesn't mean a thing if they are freelancing and playing one on one. Good thing Murphy this team appears to be really pretty good.
 

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I'm pretty sure Lou Nanne knows more about Gopher basketball than Doogie. He's mostly a parasite hoping to stick somewhere.
 

GopherJack

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Honestly we know Wisconsin has a system to recruit to. I am not trying to be a smartazz but what is Minnesota's identity? What are the absolutes in your system? Controlling pace, transition defense, deliberate offense, fast break offense, a motion offense, a zone defense, Man to man, trapping? Low turnovers. All I see is throw it up and hope Murphy gets an offensive rebound. Recruiting just any 4 or 5 star recruit doesn't mean a thing if they are freelancing and playing one on one. Good thing Murphy this team appears to be really pretty good.
Well put. Wisconsin wins by recruiting to their system. From Bo Ryan to Greg Gard. Not flashy, but they get results.
 

SelectionSunday

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Honestly we know Wisconsin has a system to recruit to. I am not trying to be a smartazz but what is Minnesota's identity? What are the absolutes in your system? Controlling pace, transition defense, deliberate offense, fast break offense, a motion offense, a zone defense, Man to man, trapping? Low turnovers. All I see is throw it up and hope Murphy gets an offensive rebound. Recruiting just any 4 or 5 star recruit doesn't mean a thing if they are freelancing and playing one on one. Good thing Murphy this team appears to be really pretty good.
Adeptly stated.

I’m not an anti-Pitino guy by any stretch, but 6 years in am still wondering what program’s identity is. Can’t think of one thing we can hang out hat on.

Iowa? Fast pace, score.

Michigan? Precision, free-flowing offense, shooters.

MSU? Pound the glass, run it up your backs on made or missed shot.

OSU? Toughness.

Rutgers? Get after it on D (because of O limitations).

Wisconsin? Low turnovers, smart, won’t beat themselves.

Those are just a few.
 

Block M

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The reality is that top recruits will never come to Minnesota consistently. Never have, never will. The other honest reality is that Minnesota has never had a consistently winning program while playing within the lanes of NCAA rules. Tubby was about the best we've had since Clem's earlier days, which were seemingly clean.

Sorry friends, MN is a hard place to win at. Pitino is our best hope to win and win in the right way, IMO.

As for identity--who cares? Just win!
 
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