Doogie: "Don't sleep on the possibility of Annexstad still entering the quarterback mix. It's not a stone cold lock that this is Tanner Morgan's job."

A_Slab_of_Bacon

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Well, maybe we should start looking at it my way, yes I am hard on the team because we all want the team to

Just because I am hard on them does not mean I do not like them. I believe my methods would work. I get tired of all the make believe and what ifs. I use local programs that have been successful for a long time because they have been successful. Look at the BB team last night, man.

Your arguments are stuff like "Why haven't they done X, when Y team does X" ... and yet they've done X.

Also "Thing happened, why didn't they prevent that?" ... Again, that applies to everyone ...

They're are just empty vague statements that anyone could say these things about anything, anyone... it's like you've never watched the team or other teams even.

These aren't arguments that sound like they come from any knowledge, they seem like cut and paste, you could apply them even beyond sports and they'd be just as on point... You just demonstrate your lack of understanding of any context, and surprising level of ignorance time and again.

Really it's like half your posts are that empty. <insert platitude, something something gophers> I can't tell if it is trolling or just an inability to understand anything that didn't pop out of your mouth.... if you put any effort into reading your own posts you could google most of the answers to your own questions even... I guess I can only assume you like being this ignorant?
 
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Tommyboy

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I have listed successful players that have recently made it to the pros, Please list all the successful players that PJ has recruited and has been successful over the last five years.
 

MNVCGUY

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Your arguments are stuff like "Why haven't they done X, when Y team does X" ... and yet they've done X.

Also "Thing happened, why didn't they prevent that?" ... Again, that applies to everyone ...

They're are just empty vague statements that anyone could say these things about anything, anyone... it's like you've never watched the team or other teams even.

These aren't arguments that sound like they come from any knowledge, they seem like cut and paste, you could apply them even beyond sports and they'd be just as on point... You just demonstrate your lack of understanding of any context, and surprising level of ignorance time and again.

Really it's like half your posts are that empty. <insert platitude, something something gophers> I can't tell if it is trolling or just an inability to understand anything that didn't pop out of your mouth.... if you put any effort into reading your own posts you could google most of the answers to your own questions even... I guess I can only assume you like being this ignorant?

Literally 5 minutes after you posted this he posted a perfect example of what you are talking about. I have given up trying to figure out if he actually believes what he is saying or is just really really really committed to a bit.
 

MNVCGUY

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Well, maybe we should start looking at it my way, yes I am hard on the team because we all want the team to

Just because I am hard on them does not mean I do not like them. I believe my methods would work. I get tired of all the make believe and what ifs. I use local programs that have been successful for a long time because they have been successful. Look at the BB team last night, man.

Basketball and Football are two very different animals. You could build a damn good basketball team if you kept all the top in-state talent home every year. However you could not build a football team capable of being a legit factor in the Big Ten.

Minnesota produces some really high level basketball talent. The same is not true for football, at least not to the level that would allow you to create a strong football roster by focusing primarily on in-state kids.
 

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Basketball and Football are two very different animals. You could build a damn good basketball team if you kept all the top in-state talent home every year. However you could not build a football team capable of being a legit factor in the Big Ten.

Minnesota produces some really high level basketball talent. The same is not true for football, at least not to the level that would allow you to create a strong football roster by focusing primarily on in-state kids.
Bull, you guys are all black and white, I did not say recruit just the state. No one has listed all the pro players that PJ has recruited in the last 5 years.
 

UpAndUnder43

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Bull, you guys are all black and white, I did not say recruit just the state. No one has listed all the pro players that PJ has recruited in the last 5 years.

Corey Davis is pretty good.
 

MNVCGUY

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Bull, you guys are all black and white, I did not say recruit just the state. No one has listed all the pro players that PJ has recruited in the last 5 years.

You get that it is too early to tell how many guys Fleck recruited to Minnesota are going to go pro right? I mean you have to understand that. Not sure what point you are really trying to prove by continuing to bang on this point.

According to a quick search there are 10 Western Michigan players in the NFL. Have no clue how many of those Fleck was responsible for.

And I am really curious who all these local guys currently in the NFL are that Fleck missed out on. According to pro football reference there are 10 guys in the NFL from the state of Minnesota currently and I don't see any of them that would have been guys Fleck could have recruited here.
 

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I don't know what you're trying to say, it's the same, it's different from team to team?
Everyone here wants the same thing, I think. Gophs need a bounceback from Morgan. Much of what I'm reading sounds like excuse making for TM's poor 2020. I trust Fleck to get things straightened out because if it doesn't... any progress in recruiting will be stymied. The nice recruiting haul this year was largely based on a great 2019 season as you make progress with the soph/junior high school classes.

A poor 2021 campaign on the heels of 2020 will cripple the recovery.
 

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Bateman is the one who out of nowhere threw Zack into the QB mix. Topic starts at 47:40.
My guess is that Zack is a better leader than Tanner. Guys wanna battle with him.
I think Tanner is the best leader on the team and its not really a competition.
I know that Zack and Bateman were roomates so they're good buds. Bateman probably just gave him a shoutout for that reason.
 

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Literally 5 minutes after you posted this he posted a perfect example of what you are talking about. I have given up trying to figure out if he actually believes what he is saying or is just really really really committed to a bit.
The more I read him I think it's a bit or troll from NDSU. Or he's just bitter that his kid didn't get an offer from the Gophers. No rational, intelligent human being could make the posts he makes. Any way you slice it, one of the worst posters all time on this board. And that's saying a lot.
 

die hard gopher

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You get that it is too early to tell how many guys Fleck recruited to Minnesota are going to go pro right? I mean you have to understand that. Not sure what point you are really trying to prove by continuing to bang on this point.

According to a quick search there are 10 Western Michigan players in the NFL. Have no clue how many of those Fleck was responsible for.

And I am really curious who all these local guys currently in the NFL are that Fleck missed out on. According to pro football reference there are 10 guys in the NFL from the state of Minnesota currently and I don't see any of them that would have been guys Fleck could have recruited here.
Fleck had 9 guys play and or get drafted plus one practice squad guy at WMU.
 

die hard gopher

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I do not understand how you do not have depth in a P5 program when you are getting paid millions of dollars for five years to recruit players? So, after five years you have to go out and pick a bunch of kids off the shelf because your recruits did not pan out?
Well, Pinckney was third team All ACC and a starter at Clemson in 2019 and could be a possible draft pick. Dylan Wright would be one of the 3 or 4 highest rated commits all time for us and has 4 years left, Trickett is a two time first team All Mac kicker and the MAC special teams POY, Shaw has proven to be a good player and was honorable mention MW, and Daniel Sparks, who is a PWO, had one of the better average yards per punt in the country as a true freshman last year. Those guys are all good transfers that we should take regardless of whether are guys panned out or not.

We took Val Martin in large part becuase Hickox and Teague aren’t part of the team anymore. So Gibbens is really the only guy who I would say we took becuase our guys didn’t develop like we thought (Sori-Marin, Aune, Rush, Guthrie etc). Everyone else is either a good player or replacing a transfer which is becoming more apparent and inevitable in this day and age regardless of their development.

And as long as they are good players which most of them already are or could be, why does it matter or they are transfers or HS kids? Talent is talent and it makes no difference to me how we acquire it.
 

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So Gopher fans should "chuck 2020" because the results were bad? Every team in the country had the same challenges. My feeling is that Morgan was exposed because he didn't have the safety net he had in 2019. Morgan regressed by any measure. Gopher fans just need him to not suck in 2021.
The reason to chuck 2020 is that it was not a real season. It was half a season with no spring practice to speak of and not much fall camp either. There were no non-conference games to settle in new guys on defense.

Yes, I know, everyone in the Big Ten had the same problems but no one else played the first two games without a kicker, punter, or kickoff man. Last year meant nothing much at all other than a chance to see young guys on defense develop over a few weeks.
 

die hard gopher

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I have listed successful players that have recently made it to the pros, Please list all the successful players that PJ has recruited and has been successful over the last five years.
Sure thing

Corey Davis
Taylor Moton
Chukauma Okorafor
Robert Spillane
Darius Philips
Samuel Beal
John Keenoy
Chris Williamson
Rashod Bateman
Benjamin St. Juste

Plus returning players Tanner Morgan, Mo Ibrahim, Boye Mafe, Blaise Andries, Daniel Faalele who all have achance to be drafted or have experienced success in college. Faalele and Mafe have a good chance to be too 100 picks.

Plus the guys he didn’t recruit but was there for the majority of their development
Daniel Braverman
Willie Beavers
Tyler Johnson
Carter Coughlin
Kamal Martin
Antoine Winfield jr.
 

Tommyboy

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Sure thing

Corey Davis
Taylor Moton
Chukauma Okorafor
Robert Spillane
Darius Philips
Samuel Beal
John Keenoy
Chris Williamson
Rashod Bateman
Benjamin St. Juste

Plus returning players Tanner Morgan, Mo Ibrahim, Boye Mafe, Blaise Andries, Daniel Faalele who all have achance to be drafted or have experienced success in college. Faalele and Mafe have a good chance to be too 100 picks.

Plus the guys he didn’t recruit but was there for the majority of their development
Daniel Braverman
Willie Beavers
Tyler Johnson
Carter Coughlin
Kamal Martin
Antoine Winfield jr.
You forgot Cashman
 

Boomtime

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The reason to chuck 2020 is that it was not a real season. It was half a season with no spring practice to speak of and not much fall camp either. There were no non-conference games to settle in new guys on defense.

Yes, I know, everyone in the Big Ten had the same problems but no one else played the first two games without a kicker, punter, or kickoff man. Last year meant nothing much at all other than a chance to see young guys on defense develop over a few weeks.
Fair enough. The key remains Morgan "not sucking", tho, in 2021.
 

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Fair enough. The key remains Morgan "not sucking", tho, in 2021.

I’d say this re: Morgan. He had a brand new OC who didnt get a proper offseason to install his offense, 2 missing starters on the OL, and one of his best receivers from last year. Folks love to dump on Sanford, especially with the idiotic “jOrDaN LoVE rEgReSsEd” takes (conveniently forgetting that USU basically lost everyone else on offense from his previous year), but it does a proper offseason to install a new offense. Doubly so when you’re missing 2 B1G starting caliber OL and your biggest safety blanket at WR.

Unlike 2019, Morgan had to actually go through progressions and make reads. He locked onto Bateman way too often. He’s still immature in terms of QB IQ. In 2019, all he had to do was count the men in the box to decide whether we’re passing or handing off, and then throw it to 2 All-B1G first team receivers. He’s not going to have that next year. But he will have one of the best running backs in the league, which means our WRs should see a lot of 1x1 coverage.
 

MplsGopher

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He had a brand new OC who didnt get a proper offseason to install his offense
2019 was one of the best offensive seasons in Gophers history.

Makes total and complete sense for the new OC to come in and change everything. Don't do a single thing the same. Change all the play names, in fact. Don't leave a single page of the playbook untouched.

Because if there's anything that has been proven to be successful in college football, it's inconsistency of schemes.

Brilliant.

especially with the idiotic “jOrDaN LoVE rEgReSsEd” takes (conveniently forgetting that USU basically lost everyone else on offense from his previous year)
Yes, it really is a silly argument to make when it was so obviously a flier, completely isolated datapoint in an otherwise pristine career.

Wait a second ... hold on, my pager is blowing up. Let me check something. Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... interesting.

Have you seen this? I'm just seeing it now.

2016 Western Kentucky - HC Jeff Brohm, OC/QB Brian Brohm - 11-3 (7-1), won conference champ game, won bowl game over Memphis - QB Mike White 14G 280-416 (67.3%) 4363yds 10.5yd/att 37td 7int

2017 Western Kentucky - HC Mike Sanford, OC/WR Junior Adams, QB Steve Spurrier Jr - 6-7 (4-4), lost bowl game to Georgia State - QB Mike White 13G 368-560 (65.7%) 4177yds 7.5yd/att 26td 8int

2018 Western Kentucky - HC Mike Sanford, OC/WR Junior Adams, QB Matt Mitchell - 3-9 (2-6), no bowl game - QBs:
Steve Duncan 9G 108-187 (57.8%) 1071yds 5.7yd/att 9td 7int
Davis Shanley 8G 96-141 (68.1%) 942yds 6.7yd/att 3td 2int
Drew Eckels 3G 50-99 (50.5%) 709yds 7.2yd/att 3td 0int


The especially concerning thing to me is the sharp drop in yards per attempt. Where have I seen that before, recently???




Man, I hope you're right. I really, really hope you're right. Because, I don't want to throw away the 2021 season.

I don't want the offense in 2021 to be the defense from 2018, and something like where they suddenly spring to life after Fleck cans Sanford and lets Simon run it for the rest of the year.

But that's what my gut is tell me is going to happen. We'll see. I've been wrong so many times before, and I want to be wrong again on this one.
 

Mitu

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2019 was one of the best offensive seasons in Gophers history.

Makes total and complete sense for the new OC to come in and change everything. Don't do a single thing the same. Change all the play names, in fact. Don't leave a single page of the playbook untouched.

Because if there's anything that has been proven to be successful in college football, it's inconsistency of schemes.

Brilliant.


Yes, it really is a silly argument to make when it was so obviously a flier, completely isolated datapoint in an otherwise pristine career.

Wait a second ... hold on, my pager is blowing up. Let me check something. Hmmmmmmmmmmm..... interesting.

Have you seen this? I'm just seeing it now.

2016 Western Kentucky - HC Jeff Brohm, OC/QB Brian Brohm - 11-3 (7-1), won conference champ game, won bowl game over Memphis - QB Mike White 14G 280-416 (67.3%) 4363yds 10.5yd/att 37td 7int

2017 Western Kentucky - HC Mike Sanford, OC/WR Junior Adams, QB Steve Spurrier Jr - 6-7 (4-4), lost bowl game to Georgia State - QB Mike White 13G 368-560 (65.7%) 4177yds 7.5yd/att 26td 8int

2018 Western Kentucky - HC Mike Sanford, OC/WR Junior Adams, QB Matt Mitchell - 3-9 (2-6), no bowl game - QBs:
Steve Duncan 9G 108-187 (57.8%) 1071yds 5.7yd/att 9td 7int
Davis Shanley 8G 96-141 (68.1%) 942yds 6.7yd/att 3td 2int
Drew Eckels 3G 50-99 (50.5%) 709yds 7.2yd/att 3td 0int


The especially concerning thing to me is the sharp drop in yards per attempt. Where have I seen that before, recently???




Man, I hope you're right. I really, really hope you're right. Because, I don't want to throw away the 2021 season.

I don't want the offense in 2021 to be the defense from 2018, and something like where they suddenly spring to life after Fleck cans Sanford and lets Simon run it for the rest of the year.

But that's what my gut is tell me is going to happen. We'll see. I've been wrong so many times before, and I want to be wrong again on this one.

I’m by no means a Sanford apologist, but I also dont think it’s fair to blame him for everything. Putting Bateman in the slot instead of X receiver was odd, but you also wonder how much influence Simon had over that as Co-OC and WR coach. I don’t blame Sanford for the late-game conservatism because that’s all Fleck. We ran fewer RPOs, but I think handwaving the loss of 2 OL and an All-B1G First Team WR is pretty ignorant.

Y’all seem to be WAYYYY overestimating how much of last year’s offense was Tanner Morgan as opposed to having the perfect blend of talent around him with a scheme that perfectly fit that talent.

Also, if you take out USU, you have two years of a bad stint as a HC at WKU. Yeah, that happens. Using one of the best WKU teams in history as your baseline comparator is pretty interesting.

Ciarocca ran awful offenses at Rutgers and got fired too. What about the years before that? Here are some facts:

Boise State Offense before Sanford: 37.5 PPG, 476 YPG
Boise State Offense with Sanford: 39.7 PPG, 494.3 YPG

Notre Dame Offense before Sanford: 32.8 PPG, 444.9 YPG
Notre Dame Offense with Sanford: 34.2 PPG, 466.4 YPG

The fun part of statistics is the ability to cherry pick to support your arguments right?

But yes, Sanford is a scrub, Morgan is truly elite talent hampered by his OC, and turnover and missing players at key positions didn’t have a big impact on performance.
 

MplsGopher

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I’m by no means a Sanford apologist, but I also dont think it’s fair to blame him for everything. Putting Bateman in the slot instead of X receiver was odd, but you also wonder how much influence Simon had over that as Co-OC and WR coach. I don’t blame Sanford for the late-game conservatism because that’s all Fleck. We ran fewer RPOs, but I think handwaving the loss of 2 OL and an All-B1G First Team WR is pretty ignorant.

Y’all seem to be WAYYYY overestimating how much of last year’s offense was Tanner Morgan as opposed to having the perfect blend of talent around him with a scheme that perfectly fit that talent.

Also, if you take out USU, you have two years of a bad stint as a HC at WKU. Yeah, that happens. Using one of the best WKU teams in history as your baseline comparator is pretty interesting.

Ciarocca ran awful offenses at Rutgers and got fired too. What about the years before that? Here are some facts:

Boise State Offense before Sanford: 37.5 PPG, 476 YPG
Boise State Offense with Sanford: 39.7 PPG, 494.3 YPG

Notre Dame Offense before Sanford: 32.8 PPG, 444.9 YPG
Notre Dame Offense with Sanford: 34.2 PPG, 466.4 YPG

The fun part of statistics is the ability to cherry pick to support your arguments right?

But yes, Sanford is a scrub, Morgan is truly elite talent hampered by his OC, and turnover and missing players at key positions didn’t have a big impact on performance.
Faalele and Dunlap are massive road-graders. I don't think of them as super nimble, light on their feet, gifted pass blockers.

Now, having a former walk-on at LG is not an ideal replacement, by any means. Nor is it, in my opinion a guy better suited for G, being the replacement at RT.

The more important part of the pass-pro picture that you're completely missing is how many extra guys that Ciarrocca kept in to block for Tanner. (much to my chagrin, at the time) Not at all unusual to have seven blocking for him, sometimes eight!

Sanford chucked all that out the window. And voila: when Tanner's first, second, and third reads (Bateman, Bateman, and Bateman .... because he spits hot fire) weren't open? Panic at the disco. Sack.


You are correct that TJ must have been far more key than any of us ever assumed. I have nothing for that.



In the end, there is no way to disprove your argument. You could be exactly correct.

The only way to prove it, is in the pudding. A full spring, a full summer, a full fall, and non-conf warm up games.

(I'm going to give them a pass on Ohio State, no matter how ugly it is)
 

Mitu

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Faalele and Dunlap are massive road-graders. I don't think of them as super nimble, light on their feet, gifted pass blockers.

Now, having a former walk-on at LG is not an ideal replacement, by any means. Nor is it, in my opinion a guy better suited for G, being the replacement at RT.

The more important part of the pass-pro picture that you're completely missing is how many extra guys that Ciarrocca kept in to block for Tanner. (much to my chagrin, at the time) Not at all unusual to have seven blocking for him, sometimes eight!

Sanford chucked all that out the window. And voila: when Tanner's first, second, and third reads (Bateman, Bateman, and Bateman .... because he spits hot fire) weren't open? Panic at the disco. Sack.


You are correct that TJ must have been far more key than any of us ever assumed. I have nothing for that.



In the end, there is no way to disprove your argument. You could be exactly correct.

The only way to prove it, is in the pudding. A full spring, a full summer, a full fall, and non-conf warm up games.

(I'm going to give them a pass on Ohio State, no matter how ugly it is)

I agree on the extra OL point, but two thoughts:

1. How much of it was losing TJ to your point? Easy have just two WRs when they’re Johnson and Bateman. I have high expectations for CAB, but that’s a tough spot to be in.

2. Think about the fact that JMS, an All-B1G player, was our 6th man. Not Nathan Boe.

Dunlap is a road grader, but he’s decent in pass-pro, certainly compared to friggin Axel. Faalele vs Andries in pass pro is probably a wash, but now Andries has to deal with Axel next to him, not Curtis.

Agree Sanford should be on a short leash. All the talent coming back, your receivers getting 1x1 coverage all day thanks to Mo. No excuses this year.
 

MplsGopher

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I agree on the extra OL point, but two thoughts:

1. How much of it was losing TJ to your point? Easy have just two WRs when they’re Johnson and Bateman. I have high expectations for CAB, but that’s a tough spot to be in.

2. Think about the fact that JMS, an All-B1G player, was our 6th man. Not Nathan Boe.

Dunlap is a road grader, but he’s decent in pass-pro, certainly compared to friggin Axel. Faalele vs Andries in pass pro is probably a wash, but now Andries has to deal with Axel next to him, not Curtis.

Agree Sanford should be on a short leash. All the talent coming back, your receivers getting 1x1 coverage all day thanks to Mo. No excuses this year.
Agree with your post. Good points.


I think Ruschmeyer played LG and Olson played RG, if I recall correctly. But yeah, then Schlueter had to pick up the slack on the left side. Or JMS coming over to help from center, if he had a difficult 3tech lined up on him.

On paper, five guys should always be able to block the four down lineman, no matter how they twist or stunt or whatever. But in practice, it sometimes doesn't work. Let alone blitzes.
 

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The more I read him I think it's a bit or troll from NDSU. Or he's just bitter that his kid didn't get an offer from the Gophers. No rational, intelligent human being could make the posts he makes. Any way you slice it, one of the worst posters all time on this board. And that's saying a lot.
Don’t forget, Tommyboy also claimed that his brother [checks notes] was offered a full ride to the U of M in both basketball and baseball...and decided to turn both of them down.

It’s absurd.
 
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