Domestic Terror Attack - Please Post All Possible Charges and Those Charged Here!!!

Costa Rican Gopher

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Damn, sounds like we need to do away with the Patriot Act! You’re finally making sense. All it took was your fellow chuds getting hemmed up.

Obviously you haven't been following along. I've been the single most vocal opponant of the Patriot Act on this forum since day 1.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Let's take all the locks off the doors!

You honestly believe the vast majority of people there on Jan 6th...the ones they call 'MAGA tourists', who walked in after the gates were opened, who didn't steal anything, didn't vandalize anything & didn't hurt anyone, were part of an "armed insurrection" & should be treated as such?

It would help this discussion if otherwise reasonable people like yourself would admit most of these people are guilty of nothing more than tresspassing. Then we could have a grown up discussion about the ones who were actively involved in the riot.
 
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Costa Rican Gopher

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How about I storm your house with zipties and bear spray right after I post on social media that I want to hang you.

Nothing to see there
🤣🤣🤣🤣

No one stormed anything with zipties. That's a lie. It's hard to have a reasonable discussion when you insist on lying. The zipties were not brought in as some sort of plot to kidnap anyone. They were picked up off the ground after the cops dropped them, and taken so that LE couldn't use them against the rioters.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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You are probably right.
You celebrate this and yet you scream bloody murder over BLM. You are a two faced fool, clear as day.

I say throw the book at anyone looting or burning in BLM and anyone breaking laws in the Capitol storming. I believe in law and order, no one should get away with violence and destruction.

The percapita death rate at the Capitol storming was much higher than any BLM protest. It was orders of magnitude more violent.

Nope. I have never celebrated this. I've said it was a proptest, that turned into a violent riot. That's not "celebrating" it. That's not even defending it. What I've said is it was just another violent political riot, like many others & that most of the people involved did nothing more than tresspass. I'd love to discuss the actual bad actors, but we're still stuck on your loons pretending this was a "armed insurrection" & that everyone involved are traitors.

That's an awful lot of parseltongue. Unlike BLM & Antifa, no one was murdered at the Capital (unless you count the unarmed woman who supported Trump, who was shot). The riot also didn't rage for an entire Summer. Nor did they run amok intimidating & attacking innocent civilians in DC. They also don't have hundreds of millions of dollars flowing in from Wall St to support their violence & rioting, or celebrities celebrating their violence & destruction.
 

Boomtime

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No one stormed anything with zipties. That's a lie. It's hard to have a reasonable discussion when you insist on lying. The zipties were not brought in as some sort of plot to kidnap anyone. They were picked up off the ground after the cops dropped them, and taken so that LE couldn't use them against the rioters.
Damn, I hope that's sarcasm. Or... you're just trolling.
 

howeda7

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No one stormed anything with zipties. That's a lie. It's hard to have a reasonable discussion when you insist on lying. The zipties were not brought in as some sort of plot to kidnap anyone. They were picked up off the ground after the cops dropped them, and taken so that LE couldn't use them against the rioters.
So they couldn't be used against the rioters? What rioters? I thought they were innocent "MAGA" tourists? You can't even keep your own lies/narrative straight.

And a couple of them absolutely did bring them in to restrain members of Congress. Not sure why your nut job sources are trying to lie about that now.
 
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Costa Rican Gopher

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So they couldn't be used against the rioters? What rioters? I thought they were innocent "MAGA" tourists? You can't even keep your own lies/narrative straight.

And a couple of them absolutely did bring them in to restrain members of Congress. Not sure why your nut job sources are trying to lie about that now.
I've said all along it was a riot. No change there. Consistancy as usual.

Who specifically brought zip ties to restrain members of congress?
 

Boomtime

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You sound very confident. Who specifically brought zip ties with them from outside?
Refusing to acknowledge the story doesn't make it disappear. If you're going to bury your head in the sand on this one, bring a breathing apparatus.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Refusing to acknowledge the story doesn't make it disappear. If you're going to bury your head in the sand on this one, bring a breathing apparatus.
Im not the one making wild accusations. The burden of proof is on you. Who specically brought zip ties? Surely you can cite the case, or at least the source behind this story you're alleging? If you can't, then why do you claim its true?
 

MplsGopher

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Everyone has seen the pictures of the guy who had the big nylon loops hanging off his tactical vest.

Obviously CRG knows this, so he's trying to lay some silly little "trap" for you to walk into. Would encourage you not to engage with him on this specific point, unless morbid curiosity gets the better of you.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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And a couple of them absolutely did bring them in to restrain members of Congress. Not sure why your nut job sources are trying to lie about that now.

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. Justice Department official on Friday said there is currently no direct evidence of efforts to capture or assassinate lawmakers in the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

We don’t have any direct evidence of kill capture teams,” said Michael Sherwin, the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, in a press conference with reporters."

No 'direct evidence' of plot to kidnap or kill lawmakers in U.S. Capitol attack: Justice Department official
 

MplsGopher

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That's it? That was the trap?? Hahahahaha

Yeah, nothing in there refutes that the one guy (at least ) was caring nylon loops on his tact vest.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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"Eric Munchel, a pro-Trump rioter who stormed the Capitol building while holding plastic handcuffs, took the restraints from a table inside the Capitol building, prosecutors said in a court filing Wednesday.

Munchel
, who broke into the building with his mom, was labeled "zip-tie guy" after he was photographed barreling down the Senate chamber holding the restraints. His appearance raised questions about whether the insurrectionists who sought to stop Congress from counting Electoral College votes on January 6 also intended to take lawmakers hostage.

But according to the new filing, Munchel and his mother took the handcuffs from within the Capitol building - apparently to ensure the Capitol Police couldn't use them on the insurrectionists - rather than bring them in when they initially breached the building


The Capitol riot's 'zip-tie guy' appeared to take the plastic handcuffs from Capitol police, prosecutors say
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Here's another one who has zip ties:

"Brock — a 53-year-old father of three — was arrested Sunday. He’s been charged with knowingly entering or remaining in a restricted building or grounds without lawful authority, and violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds.

He had previously told The New Yorker magazine that he found the zip-tie handcuffs on the floor and intended to turn them over to the police.

Brock’s lawyer, Brook Antonio II, asked an FBI agent testifying Thursday whether it was possible his client picked up the cuffs, like he said. The agent acknowledged the possibility.

"It’s all talk. It’s all speculation and conjecture," Antonio said of the allegations against Brock."

Air Force vet seen in Capitol with zip ties intended 'to take hostages,' prosecutor says
 

saintpaulguy

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"Eric Munchel, a pro-Trump rioter who stormed the Capitol building while holding plastic handcuffs, took the restraints from a table inside the Capitol building, prosecutors said in a court filing Wednesday.

Munchel
, who broke into the building with his mom, was labeled "zip-tie guy" after he was photographed barreling down the Senate chamber holding the restraints. His appearance raised questions about whether the insurrectionists who sought to stop Congress from counting Electoral College votes on January 6 also intended to take lawmakers hostage.

But according to the new filing, Munchel and his mother took the handcuffs from within the Capitol building - apparently to ensure the Capitol Police couldn't use them on the insurrectionists - rather than bring them in when they initially breached the building


The Capitol riot's 'zip-tie guy' appeared to take the plastic handcuffs from Capitol police, prosecutors say
While going to pre meditation, it does not disprove they might have wished to use them as described. Various items, shields for example, were taken from officers and used to advance the rioters. That they didn't bring their own doesn't change the fact they were improvised to help them break the law.
 

Minnesota

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No one stormed anything with zipties. That's a lie. It's hard to have a reasonable discussion when you insist on lying. The zipties were not brought in as some sort of plot to kidnap anyone. They were picked up off the ground after the cops dropped them, and taken so that LE couldn't use them against the rioters.

Yo, quick question: did he also find and pick up all of his tactical gear, which included a stun gun? That’s crazy that the Capitol police just left all that laying around.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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While going to pre meditation, it does not disprove they might have wished to use them as described. Various items, shields for example, were taken from officers and used to advance the rioters. That they didn't bring their own doesn't change the fact they were improvised to help them break the law.

What we're discussing here specifically is pre-meditation. The accusation from several posters is that these people brought the zip ties with them, and there's no proof of that at all.

That's why I keep linking to the prosecutors & FBI agents involved in the cases who are saying alternately (depending on the case) that they did not bring the zip ties with them, but rather found them inside the capital, or that the idea they brought them with to kidnap an elected official is only speculation, with no facts to back it up.

I've also asked several times for someone to cite the person, case, or article claiming these people brought the zip ties with them to the capital, and no one has provided anything of the sort.

This is not an unreasonable position. There is no good reason to believe these people brought them with to the capital. The only possible reason they continue to repeat this lie is A) ignorance (which I'm trying to help them with), or B) they're lying.
 
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Costa Rican Gopher

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Yo, quick question: did he also find and pick up all of his tactical gear, which included a stun gun? That’s crazy that the Capitol police just left all that laying around.

Translation: "You're right CRG. I've been saying something that's untrue and didn't realize it, but now that I do, I don't have the maturity to admit my mistake."
 

MplsGopher

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people brought the zip ties with them, and there's no proof of that at all.

*Entire base being overrun by the enemy. Supplies and weapons being destroyed.*

*CRG over by the latrine pit*

"You can destroy our tanks ... but you'll never take this pitttttt!!!!!!!!!!!! ARRRGHH!!!"
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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While going to pre meditation, it does not disprove they might have wished to use them as described. Various items, shields for example, were taken from officers and used to advance the rioters. That they didn't bring their own doesn't change the fact they were improvised to help them break the law.
Now that we've established these people did not bring the zip ties with them, let's move on to your point.

I believe the onus is on the prosecution to prove intent, not on the defendents to prove what they didn't intend to do? Would you agree with that?
 

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Translation: "You're right CRG. I've been saying something that's untrue and didn't realize it, but now that I do, I don't have the maturity to admit my mistake."

When did I make any claims about the zip ties, Craig?
 

MplsGopher

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Evidence of merely being in possession of restrains during the trespassing makes them exactly guilty of whatever crime they'd be guilty of given evidence of them bringing those restrains into the building themselves.

Complete and total moot point.
 
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