Domestic Terror Attack - Please Post All Possible Charges and Those Charged Here!!!

GopherJake

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What do you expect? ShillRG is a troll, shill and traitor. He represents the worst of the worst. He comes across to some as intelligent, but he's really just out there trying to own libs and reel in stupid people to help stir it up more. His claims of loving his country are bullshit, because he works tirelessly - while not incarcerated - to tear the whole thing apart. What a douche.
 

howeda7

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CRG going all in with the Insurrectionists. Is this the new QOP stance? How many Fellas will join him.
 

saintpaulguy

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None of this is true. I can't believe that you're spewing this type of hyperbole. You're normally pretty level headed.

It was a riot. They were not trying to disrupt the peaceful transition of power. That's patently false. They were hoping to influence Pence to reject the delegates from contested states, as is outlined in the Constitution and perfectly legal.

Which credible threats to the lives of the VP & members of Congress, specifically? Do you think Trump & GOP members of Congress didn't have their lives threatened for 4+ years? Hell, while the GOP was trying to get recounts in the corrupted election cities, Judges, witnesses, & legislators routinely had their lives & the lives of their children threatened. The Democrat from Michigan (Cynthia Johnson?) in televised hearings asked the eye witnesses only one question...Their home addresses. The same woman went on TV and urged "{students fo color" to confront the children of Michigan legislators who wanted transparency. This was an actual elected Democrat official, doing that to civilians & children. Also, where was your outrage when a Democrat literally tried to kill every single GOP Congressman at a baseball game? The left just shrugged that one off too. Or the Summer of burning & looting by BLM/Antifa? Dozens murdered, Government buildings attacked over & over, firebombed, officers blinded by lasers, and at least one attempt to burn the police alive inside the police station after they sealed the doors shut from the outside. The POTUS & his family had to be evacuated in May when the Democrat protesters tried to stormd the White House. The Dems also stormed the Senate & Senate offices twice during the Kavanugh hearings as well. You're honestly so far into this partisan rabbit-hole that all of the things I listed are inconsequential, but 50 people running amok in the Capital has you supporting all the dictatorial & militaristic crap that's happening now? Yikes.
This all kind of rests on whether it is reasonable to believe, like the former President, that all Mike had to do was say the magic words, and states' votes could be rejected. If he had that power, the protest would make some sort of sense as a protest to gain the attention of someone in power. I'm not sure chanting "Hang Mike Pence" is the best way to gain his favor, but that's just a style difference.
Lacking that power, it was a mob trying to force him to do an illegal act and disenfranchise US citizens.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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This all kind of rests on whether it is reasonable to believe, like the former President, that all Mike had to do was say the magic words, and states' votes could be rejected. If he had that power, the protest would make some sort of sense as a protest to gain the attention of someone in power. I'm not sure chanting "Hang Mike Pence" is the best way to gain his favor, but that's just a style difference.
Lacking that power, it was a mob trying to force him to do an illegal act and disenfranchise US citizens.

Pence did have the power to disallow the contested electors. No one is debating that part. Nixon was the last to do it as VP, but it's perfectly legal & has historical precedent.

Even the hyper-partisan media are starting to wise up now, as the DOJ walks back their most outlandish claims, and judges begin to toss these cases.

The "armed insurrection" to persecute Trump supporters is to 2020, as the Russia hoax was to persecute Trump supporters in 2016. The same framing, the same leaks, the same inappropriate statements, the same outlandish claims, the same players & the same results (thus far).

Remember when Rosenstein indicted the nebulous Russians on behalf of Weissman and Mueller, for Facebook memes? Remember how the left ate that up as some sort of proof? When the Russians tried to return to the United States to clear their names in court the DOJ simply dropped the cases. They never wanted those convictions, nor believed they were possible. They wanted to advance a political narrative, and it worked because the left has become so insane they will gobble up LITERALLY ANYTHING that paints Trump, or Trump supporters as treasonous.

DOJ abruptly drops once-heralded prosecution of Russian troll farm initiated by Mueller
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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What do you expect? ShillRG is a troll, shill and traitor. He represents the worst of the worst. He comes across to some as intelligent, but he's really just out there trying to own libs and reel in stupid people to help stir it up more. His claims of loving his country are bullshit, because he works tirelessly - while not incarcerated - to tear the whole thing apart. What a douche.
Says the guy who obsessively follows me around the OT forum responding to my posts.

 

RememberMurray

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David Lee Judd become the 20th Capitol rioter arrested by the Dallas branch of the FBI alone Friday. And the charges against him are among the most severe.

Judd, 34, from the Dallas suburb of Carrollton, is charged under federal statutes that make it a crime to "obstruct, impede, or interfere with law enforcement officers during the commission of a civil disorder" and that prohibit "forcibly assaulting police and using a deadly or dangerous weapon."

The FBI charging document accused Judd not only of hurling the firecracker at law enforcement officers, but also of actively participating in the insurrectionists' push to break through a tunnel to the Capitol building. Judd, described as "a white male with curly blonde hair wearing a red "Make America Great Again" baseball hat backwards, a black hoodie and a grey vest," was part of a group pushing against officers, the FBI complaint says.

Judd can also be seen yelling "shield wall" as he pumps his fist in the air (in a YouTube video) and helps pass shields to other rioters, the FBI alleged. Then the complaint gets colorful:

"Moments later Judd can be seen on the surveillance footage walking into the tunnel. He then lights an object on fire and throws it at the line of law enforcement officers… an unidentified member of the crowd (who can be seen standing next to Judd in surveillance video when he throws the item) can be heard yelling: "You going to do that and run away! What the fuck." When asked what the individual did, the unidentified member of the crowd states: "He threw a firecracker, a big giant, what the ...."

Though apparently not popular with all fellow rioters, Judd certainly did more than his share to pitch in, according to the complaint: "Judd can be seen chanting with the crowd, encouraging people to enter the tunnel, and assisting the rioters exiting the tunnel wash the OC spray from their faces with water…Judd can be seen lifting an American flag in the air triumphantly moments after another rioter throws a long projectile at officers."

The complaint also provided an opportunity to hear from Judd in his words, courtesy of an ad he had placed looking for a ride to the Capitol:

"Y'all ready to be apart (sic) of History??? My name is Judd!! I worked for the president this year in Maine. I'm a Texas Patriot and Amercian (sic) First Supporter. If anyone has an extra spot for the ride there and place to say, I HAVE MY LICENSE TO CARRY A FIREARM, I am a professional driver and can help with driving and funds too!! Let's fight to Save this Country and Support the greatest President."

 

Costa Rican Gopher

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A new article from the AP today. More of the same. The DOJ quietly dropping cases & walking back outlandish allegations. Some highlights...

"Authorities suggested for weeks in court hearings and papers that members of the far-right militia group plotted their attack in advance in an effort to block the peaceful transition of power. But prosecutors have since said it is not clear whether the group was targeting the Capitol before Jan. 6."

"But as the sprawling investigation has unfolded, prosecutors have sometimes struggled to maintain a consistent narrative and had to walk back statements made in court hearings or in papers. It has created an opening for defense attorneys to try to sow doubt in the case"

"In one case, prosecutors declared in court documents in January there was “strong evidence” the pro-Trump mob aimed to “capture and assassinate elected officials.” The Justice Department quickly clarified it had no such evidence, blaming it on a miscommunication between prosecutors."

"After she was pressed by a judge in a recent hearing, Rakoczy conceded authorities “do not have at this point someone explicitly saying, ‘our plan is to force entry into the Capitol in order to stop the certification,"

"Just a month earlier, Rakoczy told the same judge" “And those activities at the Capitol were a planned and very well-coordinated attack on the United States Capitol,”
she said.

"But after Caldwell’s lawyer challenged that assessment, the judge reversed his decision and released Caldwell to home confinement. Mehta said there’s no evidence he entered the Capitol on Jan. 6 or had been plotting to do so.

Last time we were here 30 days ago, I was convinced that it was a plan to execute an incursion on the Capitol building,” the judge told Caldwell’s attorney. “You’ve raised some evidence that, I think, rebuts that notion.”

"A judge recently scolded the Justice Department over a “60 Minutes” interview during which the prosecutor who was leading the investigation suggested some of the rioters could face sedition charges. Former acting District of Columbia U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin’s interview appeared to violate Justice Department rules and Sherwin is now under internal investigation, a prosecutor told the judge."

Prosecutors struggle with consistent story in Jan. 6 cases
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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David Lee Judd become the 20th Capitol rioter arrested by the Dallas branch of the FBI alone Friday. And the charges against him are among the most severe.

Judd, 34, from the Dallas suburb of Carrollton, is charged under federal statutes that make it a crime to "obstruct, impede, or interfere with law enforcement officers during the commission of a civil disorder" and that prohibit "forcibly assaulting police and using a deadly or dangerous weapon."

The FBI charging document accused Judd not only of hurling the firecracker at law enforcement officers, but also of actively participating in the insurrectionists' push to break through a tunnel to the Capitol building. Judd, described as "a white male with curly blonde hair wearing a red "Make America Great Again" baseball hat backwards, a black hoodie and a grey vest," was part of a group pushing against officers, the FBI complaint says.

Judd can also be seen yelling "shield wall" as he pumps his fist in the air (in a YouTube video) and helps pass shields to other rioters, the FBI alleged. Then the complaint gets colorful:

"Moments later Judd can be seen on the surveillance footage walking into the tunnel. He then lights an object on fire and throws it at the line of law enforcement officers… an unidentified member of the crowd (who can be seen standing next to Judd in surveillance video when he throws the item) can be heard yelling: "You going to do that and run away! What the fuck." When asked what the individual did, the unidentified member of the crowd states: "He threw a firecracker, a big giant, what the ...."

Though apparently not popular with all fellow rioters, Judd certainly did more than his share to pitch in, according to the complaint: "Judd can be seen chanting with the crowd, encouraging people to enter the tunnel, and assisting the rioters exiting the tunnel wash the OC spray from their faces with water…Judd can be seen lifting an American flag in the air triumphantly moments after another rioter throws a long projectile at officers."

The complaint also provided an opportunity to hear from Judd in his words, courtesy of an ad he had placed looking for a ride to the Capitol:

"Y'all ready to be apart (sic) of History??? My name is Judd!! I worked for the president this year in Maine. I'm a Texas Patriot and Amercian (sic) First Supporter. If anyone has an extra spot for the ride there and place to say, I HAVE MY LICENSE TO CARRY A FIREARM, I am a professional driver and can help with driving and funds too!! Let's fight to Save this Country and Support the greatest President."


While the article itself points out that Trump supporters were condemning this guy on Jan 6th, it should be pointed out that no one is claiming there were zero nut jobs at the riot on Jan 6th, or that there was zero violence. Without some nut jobs & violence, it wouldn't be a riot.

What sane people are saying is that a riot, does not equal an insurrection & that the exxagerated claims are mostly political theater, to push a politicial narrative just as the same DOJ did during their Russia hoax. Exact same play book.

Bottom line is the guy threw a firecracker, sprayed some mace & tried to get into a tunnel. If he's a first time offender, this is probation & a fine.
 

RememberMurray

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But you will surely be able to point with pride to your stalwart, constant defense of these people.

Quite the noble cause you've chosen.
 

saintpaulguy

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Pence did have the power to disallow the contested electors. No one is debating that part. Nixon was the last to do it as VP, but it's perfectly legal & has historical precedent.

Even the hyper-partisan media are starting to wise up now, as the DOJ walks back their most outlandish claims, and judges begin to toss these cases.

The "armed insurrection" to persecute Trump supporters is to 2020, as the Russia hoax was to persecute Trump supporters in 2016. The same framing, the same leaks, the same inappropriate statements, the same outlandish claims, the same players & the same results (thus far).

Remember when Rosenstein indicted the nebulous Russians on behalf of Weissman and Mueller, for Facebook memes? Remember how the left ate that up as some sort of proof? When the Russians tried to return to the United States to clear their names in court the DOJ simply dropped the cases. They never wanted those convictions, nor believed they were possible. They wanted to advance a political narrative, and it worked because the left has become so insane they will gobble up LITERALLY ANYTHING that paints Trump, or Trump supporters as treasonous.

DOJ abruptly drops once-heralded prosecution of Russian troll farm initiated by Mueller
Why didn’t Mike do as the President asked?
 

saintpaulguy

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He must be part of the conspiracy!!!!!!
Or, he got legal advice saying he didn’t have the authority to do so. Or, he didn’t find the election flawed. It would seem a giant flaw in the Constitution if a person on the ticket had the sole authority to reject a state’s vote for any reason. But as described by 45, he Mike had the power to reject them just because—there wasn’t a process or guideline .
 

saintpaulguy

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So, lacking any legal remedy, the mob was summoned to convince Mike to commit an illegal act. it did not work, and unthread are all the pawns thrown under the bus. if I was one of them, I’d be pretty ticked.
 

RememberMurray

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Or, he got legal advice saying he didn’t have the authority to do so. Or, he didn’t find the election flawed. It would seem a giant flaw in the Constitution if a person on the ticket had the sole authority to reject a state’s vote for any reason. But as described by 45, he Mike had the power to reject them just because—there wasn’t a process or guideline .

I don't think Trump knew much about the legalities. And I doubt he cared at all about the law.
 

saintpaulguy

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I don't think Trump knew much about the legalities. And I doubt he cared at all about the law.
He didn’t care. I’m sure he was advised properly. This whole nonsense was a loser trying to give himself an asterisk. McConnell nailed it.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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Why didn’t Mike do as the President asked?

Well IIRC Pence was quoted as saying the he didn't have the legal authority to do so - makes sense as the electors come from the states, right (pun intended)?

However, noted Constitutional scholars and lawyers, CRG & Rising Serpent unfortunately don't agree - they obviously know more than a VP and former Senator and any other reputable people interviewed on the subject.

We should truly be honored that someone with CRG's intellectual process deigns to share his wisdom for free with us cretins - he is a humanitarian and should be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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No, Craig.

The courts decide, not you.

Follow along sir. The links I've been posting have quite a bit about the courts deciding these allegations are bullsh*t. That's why the DOJ is walking them back. It's important to understand the DOJ is simply building a political narrative to get ex-liberals like yourself to cheer lead as a corrupt IC launches mass domestic surveillance & political persecution of wrong thinking. The Soviet's used to say "The process, is the punishment." and that's the mentality the hyper-politicized DOJ has adopted. Nothing of substance will come from all of this hyperbole.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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Well IIRC Pence was quoted as saying the he didn't have the legal authority to do so - makes sense as the electors come from the states, right (pun intended)?

However, noted Constitutional scholars and lawyers, CRG & Rising Serpent unfortunately don't agree - they obviously know more than a VP and former Senator and any other reputable people interviewed on the subject.

We should truly be honored that someone with CRG's intellectual process deigns to share his wisdom for free with us cretins - he is a humanitarian and should be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.

There is no debate to be had here. The VP absolutely can nullify contested electors, or even give the electors to the other candidate. This has been done several times, most recently by Richard Nixon, when he was VP. Pick another hill to die on.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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But you will surely be able to point with pride to your stalwart, constant defense of these people.

Quite the noble cause you've chosen.
You're either incredibly stupid, or you're trolling. I believe it's the latter.

Grown ups can condemn the riot & the use of violence for political reasons, without propagating lies & hyperbole. That's where I'm at.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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There is no debate to be had here. The VP absolutely can nullify contested electors, or even give the electors to the other candidate. This has been done several times, most recently by Richard Nixon, when he was VP. Pick another hill to die on.

The electors are certified at the state level, and not the VP - the Veep's role is ceremonial in nature and is considered pro forma.

Whatever BS website you are getting this off of, you won't post it (like you did the Politico link for Hunter) because it's not reputable and you'll get shredded on here again.

You quote The Conservative Treehouse and Rising Serpent, OMG, SMH.

The 12th Amendment and multiple reputable news organizations.

What document governs the country you live it, cause apparently it ain't the US, LMAO.

Here's a link to the 12th Amendment and summation of it -


“The president of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted,” it reads.

So Pence will oversee the joint session of Congress, opening each of the certificates of each state's electoral votes and then presenting those to already appointed House and Senate "tellers" in alphabetical order.

"The person having the greatest number of votes shall be president," the amendment continues.
After presenting them to all of the tellers, who count the votes, Pence then will announce who officially won. But our experts say he doesn't have any official say in changing the votes, as some social media posts say.

Here are a couple of news organizations (there are of course innumerable ones kiddo) -




As usual Comrade Constanza when something on here involves more nuance than scratching yer nutz or drinking a brew, you are ill informed and wrong.

1616894479110.png

I'm really getting tired of publicly humiliating you but, maybe you like it, you naughty, naughty boy.

Where do I send your mask to? I won't be to ruff to start with.😉😉😉😉😉

1616894784941.png
 
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RememberMurray

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You're either incredibly stupid, or you're trolling. I believe it's the latter.

Grown ups can condemn the riot & the use of violence for political reasons, without propagating lies & hyperbole. That's where I'm at.

Oh, bullshit.

Where you're at is defending these people while trying to pretend you're not doing same. It's too transparent, Craig. It's not even good trolling.
 

Dunceswithwolves

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There is no debate to be had here. The VP absolutely can nullify contested electors, or even give the electors to the other candidate. This has been done several times, most recently by Richard Nixon, when he was VP. Pick another hill to die on.

Assume you are referring to Hawaii. To be precise, Nixon didn't nullify. I believe if you read a full account it would show that Nixon asked for unanimous consent to count the Democratic electors. The Dem electors was the 2nd, and corrected, slate after the finished recount found Kennedy won Hawaii. If the VP could nullify, then Nixon wouldn't have needed that consent.
 
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