DOJ admits yet another Jan 6th Capital riot claim is false

jamiche

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This is a game you play all the time. It matters, the truth matters. Because something or someone is wrong in their actions doesn’t mean you can just make up things they didn’t do and lie about them to make what they did look worse. Defending anyone against lies and supporting the truth is always the right thing to do. This was the constant attack point with Trump “defenders”.
Donald lied over 20,000 times during his presidency, melvin. I guess you were too busy posting about private roads and the beauty of competition without rules to notice. Now you are wiping spittle off of your face over the distinction between pepper spray and bear spray.
 

stocker08

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The guy in the beginning of the video isn't trying to take the officers mask off... he's trying to help him put it back on so that he doesn't suffer from the bear spray! These are fine people!

That's really nice. I heard from Tucker that they aren't actually crushing him in the door. They're actually using the door to give him a big hug.
 

Section2

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Donald lied over 20,000 times during his presidency, melvin. I guess you were too busy posting about private roads and the beauty of competition without rules to notice. Now you are wiping spittle off of your face over the distinction between pepper spray and bear spray.
We are talking about murder.
 

saintpaulguy

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I’m all for accuracy and facts. I just don’t really see a difference here.
There isn‘t one that matters. By choosing this item, CRG is diluting his point. Bear spray sounds scarier, I suppose. Because bears. In reality, it’s the jalapeño to the Carolina Reaper. The error made does NOT over exaggerate the situation, as he claims is done in a series of his posts.
People need to abandon the false equivalency of the 1/6 riot, and the days of unrest in 2020 after the death of George Floyd. Breaking into a federal building is bad, looting liquor stores is bad. Two bad things can be bad.
A lot of people were present while the police station burned down who didn’t burn it down. I don’t claim they were “just taking selfies”. They were witnesses or accessories to a crime.
Same for the Capitol folks. They saw the broken doors and windows and went in anyway.
 

saintpaulguy

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One of the rules of peaceful protest should be, when members of your group misbehave, you self police, or regroup elsewhere. Piggybacking on violence is not non violence.
 

howeda7

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The guy in the beginning of the video isn't trying to take the officers mask off... he's trying to help him put it back on so that he doesn't suffer from the bear spray! These are fine people!
They're very special and Trump loves them.
 

Spoofin

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There isn‘t one that matters. By choosing this item, CRG is diluting his point. Bear spray sounds scarier, I suppose. Because bears. In reality, it’s the jalapeño to the Carolina Reaper. The error made does NOT over exaggerate the situation, as he claims is done in a series of his posts.
People need to abandon the false equivalency of the 1/6 riot, and the days of unrest in 2020 after the death of George Floyd. Breaking into a federal building is bad, looting liquor stores is bad. Two bad things can be bad.
A lot of people were present while the police station burned down who didn’t burn it down. I don’t claim they were “just taking selfies”. They were witnesses or accessories to a crime.
Same for the Capitol folks. They saw the broken doors and windows and went in anyway.
OK. I don't disagree with any of this. Seems you should be talking to CRG and not me.
 

jamiche

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We are talking about murder.
Nope, melvy. What we are really talking about is your's and craig's continued attempts to characterize the donalds'1/6/21 violent insurrection at our nation's capitol as some kind of a winter version of a summerfest led by their cruise activities director, El Donaldo. The donalds were just there to sight see, show the kids around, maybe meet Speaker of the House Pelosi (and Vice President Pence!), grab a burger at the burger bar (no pink!), spray a little pepper spray, smear a little feces on the walls, kill a few folks unlucky enough to get left behind and then catch a dinner show emceed by, of course, El Donaldo.

Good Times, Melvin! Good times...
 
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Costa Rican Gopher

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Bear spray has less active ingredient than pepper pray. Bear spray sprays a cloud, pepper spray a stream. Bears have more sensitive nose, and don’t need as much active ingredient to be affected.

So, what point are you trying to make here?

Bear mace is considered far more dangerous than normal pepper spray.

The reason the DOJ & MSM have been specifically using the term 'Bear spray', like all the other hyperbolic lies about bashing police's skulls in with a fire extinguisher, and bringing zip ties to abduct lawmakers, is that these people are trying to push a false narrative that the riot was something more than it was.

Again, these are left wing CNN's words, not mine.

"a major change after implying for weeks that bear spray, not pepper spray, had been deployed."

"Prosecutors addressed the seemingly small but significant difference at a detention hearing for the two men charged in connection with the chemical attack."
 

saintpaulguy

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Bear mace is considered far more dangerous than normal pepper spray.

The reason the DOJ & MSM have been specifically using the term 'Bear spray', like all the other hyperbolic lies about bashing police's skulls in with a fire extinguisher, and bringing zip ties to abduct lawmakers, is that these people are trying to push a false narrative that the riot was something more than it was.

Again, these are left wing CNN's words, not mine.

"a major change after implying for weeks that bear spray, not pepper spray, had been deployed."

"Prosecutors addressed the seemingly small but significant difference at a detention hearing for the two men charged in connection with the chemical attack."
is there anything in the highlighted text that says bear spray is worse? Is there support for this opinion?
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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It is wild that after all of this someone would start a thread to defend the Capitol rioters.

Truth matters, especially in a case this big. It's no coincidence the left has been lying about:

1) Officer Sicknick having his head bashed in with a fire extinguisher. Without the rioters killing a cop, it's just a riot. The left has been desperate to pin Sicknick's death on Trump supporters.

2) When the fake news story about the fire extinguisher was debunked, the left freaked out because they absolutely needed the cop to have been killed by Trump supporters. That's why they pivoted to Officer Sicknick being killed by 'Bear mace' (specifically), because it continued the false narrative that it was Trump supporters responsible for Sicknick's death, and since it's more dangerous & more ominous sounding than regular pepper spray, "bear mace' was intentionally repeated ad nauseum.

The same reason the left needed 3) the fake news about rioters bringing zip ties with them, as it painted the picture in people's minds of the pre-planned abduction of lawmakers. Since the left wants to politicize Jan 6th, ti justify the suspension of our civil rights, and to militarize our country, they desperately need the insurrection narrative. Without the rioters killing anyone, or planning to abduct anyone, it was just a riot.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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is there anything in the highlighted text that says bear spray is worse? Is there support for this opinion?

You're deflecting from the DOJ intentionally exaggerating & lying for partisan gain. You're also pretending the MSM hasn't been pushing stories about how dangerous 'Bear mace' is to support the notion that Trump supporters killed Officer Sicknick. Why is it so hard to just admit the plain truth? You'll also notice in this article, how it always circles back to "right-wingers" using "bear mace". That's not a coincidence either.

"Bear spray has been used as a weapon by civilians in a number of high-profile incidents in recent months.

The chemical irritant, which is similar to pepper spray but more potent, has been deployed by right-wing and left-wing protesters against one another and police in the Pacific Northwest. In Staten Island, New York, police say a man used it to incapacitate deli clerks in a series of robberies last December. And at least three people who participated in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot are accused of spraying police officers with bear repellent.

Two of the suspects were charged last week with using bear spray against Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who later died. It’s still not clear if the chemical caused or contributed to Sicknick’s death, but the incident has raised concerns about its escalating use in violent protests.

“This is not your average can of pepper spray,” said Dr. Rohini Haar, an emergency room physician in Oakland, California, and a medical advisor for the nonprofit Physicians for Human Rights.

“It’s being used as a weapon, and we need to treat it as such.”

Bear spray was developed in the 1980s after a spate of fatal bear attacks against people. It uses the same active ingredient as pepper spray — capsaicin, a chemical component of chili peppers — but at levels that can make it twice as powerful. And unlike pepper spray canisters, which shoot out a narrow stream, the larger bear mace bottles unleash a powerful and expanding cloud of chemical irritants designed to extend more than 30 feet and linger in the air.

“It creates a cone of the material so you have a good chance to hit the bear,” said Chris Servheen, a Montana-based wildlife biologist who served for 35 years as the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service's national grizzly bear recovery coordinator.

But those same qualities also make it more dangerous when used against humans, experts say.

Few large-scale studies have been conducted on the health impacts of chemical irritants like pepper spray or tear gas. A 2017 review of the available documentation found that chemical irritants were rarely fatal and the vast majority of reported injuries were minor, but pepper spray and tear gas “can cause significant injuries as well as permanent disabilities.”

Haar, who led the study, said the more serious injuries involve respiratory problems among people with pre-existing conditions as well as chemical burns and other damage to the eyes.

“It’s basically like a hot acid in your eye,” said Haar, who is an adjunct professor of epidemiology at the School of Public Health, University of California, Berkeley. “These things are about 10,000 times more powerful than a store-bought habanero or your average jalapeño pepper.”

Unlike tear gas, pepper spray and bear mace are oil-based irritants, making them more difficult and more painful to wash off one’s body. Haar also said the faster the spray shoots out of the bottle the greater the chance for more serious injuries — another reason bear spray can be more dangerous than pepper spray when used against humans.

“Bear spray is ejected at a much higher speed because it goes so much farther,” she said.

The products are sold across the country, at niche outdoors retailers and major retailers.

Certain states, like New York, regulate the sale of capsaicin-based sprays, permitting it to be sold only in small quantities.

Matt Rothamel, owner of Blue Line Sports in Saranac Lake, New York, said it’s not uncommon for customers to ask about bear spray, which only comes in larger containers, but he only sells it to people licensed to carry it such as state wildlife personnel.

“I don’t even mention that we carry it and it’s not displayed on our shelves, but people ask for it,” Rothamel said.

Still, the product remains widely available and easy to obtain — even for people who live miles away from bear country.

New York prosecutors say Robert Summa, of Staten Island, sprayed bear mace in the face of workers during three separate bodega robberies from Dec. 8 to Dec. 31.

He was arrested after the New York Police Department released a surveillance video showing the moment the masked suspect unleashed the spray. Summa told investigators he “got the mace from Montana,” court documents say.

Certain states, like New York, regulate the sale of capsaicin-based sprays, permitting it to be sold only in small quantities.

Matt Rothamel, owner of Blue Line Sports in Saranac Lake, New York, said it’s not uncommon for customers to ask about bear spray, which only comes in larger containers, but he only sells it to people licensed to carry it such as state wildlife personnel.

“I don’t even mention that we carry it and it’s not displayed on our shelves, but people ask for it,” Rothamel said.

Still, the product remains widely available and easy to obtain — even for people who live miles away from bear country.

New York prosecutors say Robert Summa, of Staten Island, sprayed bear mace in the face of workers during three separate bodega robberies from Dec. 8 to Dec. 31.

He was arrested after the New York Police Department released a surveillance video showing the moment the masked suspect unleashed the spray. Summa told investigators he “got the mace from Montana,” court documents say.

He has pleaded not guilty to robbery and assault charges. Summa’s lawyer, John Murphy, declined to comment.

The victim seen in the video was so traumatized by the incident that he stopped working at the store.

“He’s OK, but he’s scared,” said Ali Razza, manager of Forest Superette and Bagels.

Bear spray became a common sight at protests in Oregon and Washington state last year.

In Salem, Oregon, right-wing protesters angry over Covid-19 restrictions used bear spray against police while forcing their way into the state Capitol on Dec. 21, authorities said.

The officers “had protective gear on and they were able to work through it, but I know there were reports of tingling and odd sensations for hours after the event,” said Salem Police Lt. Trevon Upkes.

Upkes said the use of bear mace as a weapon came about as part of what he called an “arms race” among protesters and counterprotesters. “It’s a way of having some kind of offensive capability that won’t get you into trouble just for possessing it,” Upkes said.

Servheen, the Montana biologist and bear expert, said he fears the increased misuse of the sprays will lead to calls to ban the products, which he says would be terrible for bears. The spray irritates the bear's eyes, throat and nasal passageway, momentarily disabling it but causing no lasting effects.

“We would hate to see bear spray go away because it’s a very positive thing for bears,” Servheen said. “You can deter them without killing them. Unlike using something like a gun, they can walk away and go on with their business.”

David Nance, the chief executive officer of the SABRE personal security company, a major manufacturer of bear spray, said: "Bear spray should only be used to defend against a bear attack. The label states not to use on humans."

Melissa Lewis, the journalist who was sprayed at a Portland protest last August, said she has also been hit with pepper spray in the past but it’s nothing like the burning sensation caused by bear spray.

“I have epilepsy. I dislocated my own jaw in a grand mal (seizure). And this is still the worst pain I’ve ever been in,”
Lewis said.


The blast of spray hit the side of her face and covered her hair at that protest in mid-August. Then she made the mistake of removing her face mask, causing the chemicals to drip into her eyes. At the same time, Lewis said, the skin on her arms and legs felt like it was burning up.

In the wake of the incident, Lewis filed a lawsuit against the man she says attacked her — Alan Swinney, a self-described Proud Boys member who was captured on videos posted to social media spraying mace into the crowd.

Swinney was arrested on Sept. 30 and charged with committing multiple offenses, including the unlawful use of mace, at two demonstrations in August, including the one where Lewis was sprayed.

His lawyer, Eric Wolfe, did not respond to a request for comment.

Lewis said she’s learned her lesson. Whenever she covers far-right rallies these days, she makes sure to protect herself from the threat of bear spray.

“No matter the weather, I’ll wear a raincoat and waterproof pants,” she said. “As I like to say, if it’s waterproof, it’s bear mace proof.”


Unbearable pain: How bear spray became a prized weapon for violent protesters
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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You’re the clueless one my friend. Jan 6 was a disgrace brought on by nothing but Trump supporters. But yet somehow it’s the Dems you talk about.

The riot was reprehensible, so why lie & exaggerate the claims? Why nopt just report the riot factually? The intentional spread of fake news by the DOJ & MSM is more dangerous than the riot itself was.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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I never knew this. I have had to carry (but never use) bear spray on backcountry backpacking trips and never knew I was carrying a less potent product. I might carry pepper spray next time. A ridiculous distinction to make about 1/6, but maybe not for may situation?

It's nonsense. Bear spray is far more effective than pepper spray, which is why they've specifically calling it "bear spray". You can be damn sure that if "pepper spray" was more effective, they would be calling it that.
 

golfing18now

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is there anything in the highlighted text that says bear spray is worse? Is there support for this opinion?

I'm not taking an official position on the thread here, but I must admit not being a bear spray expert, I automatically assumed this would have been far worse than pepper spray. Pepper spray has been routinely used against humans, but bear spray? Call me an idiot, but I'm sure I'm not alone.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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I won’t pretend to know the difference. But when the fire extinguisher story fell apart (despite being widely reported from CNCs approved list) the pivot was that rioters used bear spray on him and this caused the stroke. So the significance of this being false is that Jan 6 rioters didn’t kill anyone. 4 rioters were killed, including one unarmed woman who was shot and we still don’t know who shot her. Lebron hasn’t told us.

this doesn’t mean the riot was fine. It wasn’t. Even beyond the insurrection(!!!!), politically is was the dumbest move ever, caused a predictable reaction, and gave Dems cover from their year or terror. Nice job guys.

Nailed it. Without the mob killing Officer Sicknick, and with anyone brining zip ties with them to abduct lawmakers, it's just a riot. The left is trying to use this as ground to trample on the constitution and turn DC into a militarized zone.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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I'm not taking an official position on the thread here, but I must admit not being a bear spray expert, I automatically assumed this would have been far worse than pepper spray. Pepper spray has been routinely used against humans, but bear spray? Call me an idiot, but I'm sure I'm not alone.

Bear spray is considered far more dangerous. That's why they've intentionally been saying these guys used "bear spray" on Office Sicknick, rather than "pepper spray", and why they've now had to admit they were lying.
 

saintpaulguy

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I'm not taking an official position on the thread here, but I must admit not being a bear spray expert, I automatically assumed this would have been far worse than pepper spray. Pepper spray has been routinely used against humans, but bear spray? Call me an idiot, but I'm sure I'm not alone.
Not alone, surely. Do your own search, bear spray vs pepper spray.
 

golfing18now

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Not alone, surely. Do your own search, bear spray vs pepper spray.

Agreed. But if you take this particular example out of the conversation and cite any example, big or small.......we don't all fact check particular claims made by the MSM as a matter of habit. If we are repeatedly subjected to erroneous information, either intentionally or unintentionally, it does have a negative impact on how we view issues, stories, whatever. A media with an agenda is a big problem. "Stop the steal" and "guilty of being black with a driver's license" are dangerous to those that don't have better information.
 
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