Do you wear a mask?

[GopherWeatherGuy]

If viruses are going to do what they’re going to do as you say, then wouldn’t events and situations where large amounts of people are in close proximity of each other for long periods of time allow the virus to do what it does a lot easier?

Like black Friday shopping at malls and large retailers, which is allowed with no restrictions?

 

[justthefacts]

There’s really no use trying to argue. I understand that masks can help reduce droplets in the air. I get that it’s a tool. But you seem to be taking the position that science and progressives haven’t been overstating their important and effectiveness, and I think that point is kind of the crux of your argument and I think dead wrong.

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www.npr.org

 

[justthefacts]

No, weddings are still happening. And I never said they were the primary cause. The whole discussion was about gatherings where mask wearing isn’t occurring. Weddings, parties, get togethers with family, bars, and restaurants are all situations where most people aren’t wearing masks. You also seem to think that the people that are infected at a wedding don’t then spread it to others.

I had an employee at my former job who was at a COVID super spreader wedding in SW Minn. She and her husband got it and then came home and gave it to their daughter.

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www.mprnews.org

 

[MplsGopher]

Like black Friday shopping at malls and large retailers, which is allowed with no restrictions?

False. https://mn.gov/covid19/for-minnesotans/stay-safe-mn/stay-safe-plan.jsp any retailer that is open is required to have a cv19 plan.

Bars & restaurants being open for in-person service is not essential. They're still allowed to sell their products to people. Retail is essential, both for people to survive and to the economy. It is not feasible to do 100% of retail as pickup only with no in-person in the store. Many retail stores are much larger for people to space out than inside bars/restaurants, as well.


Typical binary fallacy. You complain about crashing the economy, but then demand if retail is open "unrestricted" (false) then bars/restaurants must be allowed the same. Proven false.

 

[BarnBurner]

 

[Section2]

I was in one. Almost ZERO mask wearing. The wedding and ceremony took place both outdoors and in indoor space with doors and windows open. I was one of the few who wore a mask and socially distanced as much as reasonably possible, which is difficult when you're in the wedding party, during photos, during the ceremony, during the dinner, at which the groom and bride requested we do not. Very few others that attended wore a mask at any time. Weddings like this are going on all over the place, especially in rural America. They are common spreader events. Wake up, man.

Report back on how many people at the wedding got COVID.

 

[BarnBurner]

 

[Section2]

I had an employee at my former job who was at a COVID super spreader wedding in SW Minn. She and her husband got it and then came home and gave it to their daughter.

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www.mprnews.org

I don’t believe we can pinpoint the outbreak source like this.

 

[BarnBurner]

I don’t believe we can pinpoint the outbreak source like this.

Just no facts / just the lies can........

 

[MplsGopher]

I don’t believe we can pinpoint the outbreak source like this.

Wrong, as usual. It's called "contact tracing".

 

[GophersInIowa]

Like black Friday shopping at malls and large retailers, which is allowed with no restrictions?

What kind of shopping are you doing where you’re in close proximity with people outside your group for at least 15 minutes?

 

[Wally]

Report back on how many people at the wedding got COVID.

Because if one wedding went off with no Covid transmission that means they are safe

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

 

[justthefacts]

Why believe the CDC when you can believe this guy instead?

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

What kind of shopping are you doing where you’re in close proximity with people outside your group for at least 15 minutes?

I don't go to a gym, restaurant, or bar where that's the case either. So why is one ok, and the others are not?

 

[MplsGopher]

Because it's not worth their time to parse through the data each and every single location to see if that location has "better than average" rules and "lower than average" cases, and therefore they can stay open but this other place over here has to close.

Silly.

Way easier, and more effective to shut them all down. It's 4 weeks. You'll live.

 

[Wally]

Because it's not worth their time to parse through the data each and every single location to see if that location has "better than average" rules and "lower than average" cases, and therefore they can stay open but this other place over here has to close.

Silly.

Way easier, and more effective to shut them all down. It's 4 weeks. You'll live.

And its for fairness, don't you remember people bitching in the spring that some stores were closed but Target and Walmart ect were open?
I remember...

 

[GophersInIowa]

I don't go to a gym, restaurant, or bar where that's the case either. So why is one ok, and the others are not?

Situations where you are in close contact with people for extended periods of time (15+ minutes) have a greater risk than situations where the close contact is much shorter. You’re not stationary at a grocery store or mall. There’s risk at those places but it’s not as high.

 

[Section2]

Person A can go out tomorrow and murder someone. The law doesn't prevent that. But the laws are in place to provide deterrents and punishment. No laws prevent the breaking of them. Your arguments continue to be inane. If people aren't abiding by loose "mandates", proper rectification is to strengthen enforcement and increase the punishments. That's coming next. If you want more "freedom", just wear a frigging mask and socially distance, so this doesn't have to happen.

 

[Wally]

You think those shy Trump voters would admit to not wearing a mask?

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Situations where you are in close contact with people for extended periods of time (15+ minutes) have a greater risk than situations where the close contact is much shorter. You’re not stationary at a grocery store or mall. There’s risk at those places but it’s not as high.

So again, having large groups of people in an enclosed area for a long period of time is now OK, as long as the same two people are not in close contact with each other for more than 15 minutes?

You're likely to be stationary for at least a few minutes as you look at purchases or are standing in line. You can be in a store for an hour, walking around breathing the same air as 100s of other people, that's OK? You can spend all day shopping with your family and friends, carpooling etc, that's allowed, but you can't have dinner with them? You're in a church, stationary for at least an hour in the same room, signing, that's now OK?

Then schools should be just fine. Stadiums at 50% capacity is just fine. Gyms, most bars, and restaurants all can easily fit into those requirements without being closed. I'm never stationary in a gym for more than a minute, and people are always spread out.

 

[GophersInIowa]

So again, having large groups of people in an enclosed area for a long period of time is now OK, as long as the same two people are not in close contact with each other for more than 15 minutes?

You're likely to be stationary for at least a few minutes as you look at purchases or are standing in line. You can be in a store for an hour, walking around breathing the same air as 100s of other people, that's OK? You can spend all day shopping with your family and friends, carpooling etc, that's allowed, but you can't have dinner with them? You're in a church, stationary for at least an hour in the same room, signing, that's now OK?

Then schools should be just fine. Stadiums at 50% capacity is just fine. Gyms, most bars, and restaurants all can easily fit into those requirements without being closed. I'm never stationary in a gym for more than a minute, and people are always spread out.

The people that study these things say they are different. There’s lots of info about what things are riskier than others. It’s about space and time. Churches are higher risk too. I can’t speak for others but our church has a virtual option that a majority of parishioners are taking advantage of. I’m really not pushing for or against anything. Just saying the risk is different for different activities.

When assessing the risk of infection (via respiration) at the grocery store or mall, you need to consider the volume of the air space (very large), the number of people (restricted), how long people are spending in the store (workers - all day; customers - an hour). Taken together, for a person shopping: the low density, high air volume of the store, along with the restricted time you spend in the store, means that the opportunity to receive an infectious dose is low.

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www.erinbromage.com

 

[Wally]

You can be in a store for an hour, walking around breathing the same air as 100s of other people, that's OK? You can spend all day shopping with your family and friends, carpooling etc, that's allowed,

No one has said those are fine and pose no risk. Just because its allowed doesn't mean you should do it. Every guidance I have seen says limit all trips, shop alone if possible and avoid crowded places

I suppose what you wrote is how most people think, hey the bar is open, lets go, it must be safe, which is why we things got closed down...

 

[BarnBurner]

The people that study these things say they are different. There’s lots of info about what things are riskier than others. It’s about space and time. Churches are higher risk too. I can’t speak for others but our church has a virtual option that a majority of parishioners are taking advantage of. I’m really not pushing for or against anything. Just saying the risk is different for different activities.

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www.erinbromage.com

THE most dishonest post on GH, ever. And that is saying something with justnofacts/justthelies here....

 

[GophersInIowa]

THE most dishonest post on GH, ever. And that is saying something with justnofacts/justthelies here....

I was talking about as far as shutting down restaurants, bars, etc. Like in another thread I said it was stupid for California to shut down outdoor dining. I’d actually rather see restaurants remain open in some way. Anyone that doesn’t have their head in their @ss would understand what I was talking about.

 

[cncmin]

Report back on how many people at the wedding got COVID.

None that I know of, as apparently we were all lucky and no attendees had it. But, as all too often happens, if just one person had it, very many people would have gotten it. That's how this all works.

 

[cncmin]

Again, that's 83% of people wear a mask at some time in public. That stat ignores all of the family-family, family-friend, and other private gatherings, where mask use is probably closer to 10%. The transmission is generally happening in the private gatherings (if not at restaurants/bars, which is more of a public setting and in which masks are not generally worn).

 

[cncmin]

But practically no one is getting married right now. In November. When cases are spiking. If someone contracts Covid now, it’s not because they went to a wedding in September or October. So the notion that weddings are a primary cause of the spike right now is ridiculous.

Let's get this straight. IF SOMEONE CONTRACTS COVID NOW, IT IS A RESULT OF A CONTINUED CHAIN OF TRANSMISSION. THOSE FOLKS THAT GOT COVID AT A WEDDING IN SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER HAVE TRANSMITTED TO OTHERS. THOSE OTHERS TRANSMIT TO OTHERS, WHO TRANSMIT TO OTHERS, WHO TRANSMIT TO OTHERS.

It's as if you don't understand the most elementary concepts of viral spread.

 

[cncmin]

So closing schools is up to how school administrators feel? Or science?

Can you point to federal guidance/metrics on whether or not schools should be open or closed? The CDC was trying to put some out. That got quashed by Trump himself, who just screams OPEN THE SCHOOLS! So what exactly is our national policy? It certainly is far from clear. And in that lack of clarity, states set guidelines to follow. But some states put it in the hands of the localities to decide their metrics of when to open and close, and so they are off trying to create their own guidance. And the result is variance and a bit of chaos.

But you whine and wonder why there is no consistency, no clear scientific guidance - IT'S BECAUSE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION REFUSES TO PROVIDE IT AND ENFORCE IT.

A good, decent president would tell folks to go here, and not scream his deluded political opinions:

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www.cdc.gov

The vast majority of school administrators are probably going there anyway (pretty much all of them other than the deluded Trumpsters). As you can tell if you visit that page, they don't exactly provide numerical metrics to follow, just general guidance with green/yellow/red risk levels. That's nice, but, as it should, it follows community levels of contagion. That IS probably the most appropriate metric. Most community levels of contagion seem to be above 20/100,000 these days, which according to the guidance levels here put transmission in school at moderate to high or extreme categories. From that general guidance, a school administrator seems right to me to highly consider closing down if levels are moderate or worse. But remember, it doesn't say whether they should or should not shut down, only provides coarse guidance. But you wonder why school administrators are confused, or why schools are shutting down?

 

[BarnBurner]

I was talking about as far as shutting down restaurants, bars, etc. Like in another thread I said it was stupid for California to shut down outdoor dining. I’d actually rather see restaurants remain open in some way. Anyone that doesn’t have their head in their @ss would understand what I was talking about.

Sure thing. Own your words, GII.