Do you wear a mask?

When you go out to places like the grocery store, do you wear a mask?

  • Yes, I think it helps slow the spread

    Votes: 54 44.6%
  • Yes, I'm not sure how much it helps but it's no big deal to wear one

    Votes: 30 24.8%
  • Yes, but only because I'm required to

    Votes: 11 9.1%
  • No, I don't think it helps

    Votes: 11 9.1%
  • No, It's my decision/I'm healthy so not at risk

    Votes: 11 9.1%
  • No, They're uncomfortable/can't use them due to a health condition

    Votes: 2 1.7%
  • No, it makes us look weak/I'm not going to live in fear

    Votes: 7 5.8%
  • Other, post below

    Votes: 6 5.0%

  • Total voters
    121

RahSkiUMah

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Ok, thanks. So would the mean then be an 11.5% decrease among mask wearers?
Technically they state an “odds ratio of 0.82 (CI of 0.54 to 1.23)”. So their “mean” would be about 18% (1-0.82) reduction in risk of infection. When talking odds ratios, the mean isn’t always perfectly centered between the CI upper and lower limits.

BUT, we should note they didn’t find this to be “statistically significant”, which means we can’t say for certain that this result wasn’t just due to chance. So in the future someone would maybe try and repeat this study with a larger sample size, to see if this finding is significant. This study specifically asked the question, “does wearing a surgical mask reduce risk of infection by 50% or more?” Their results suggest no, it doesn’t reduce risk that amount.
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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OK, big NYC high hat guy, (Gopher_In_NYC,) give us your "CV" since you know so much I'll be waiting to read it.

You demand we give some background to validate our points, so get to it...... Cal? Harvard? Yale, Duke???
It was obviously a joke - feeling a little over sensitive because you stepped in it, again?

I never purported to be a mask/science expert like you and others have done so on here. I believe you stated "science" is dead - lol.

My CV
2 Ears - Smart enough to know I should listen to subject experts and I have learned to listen. I'm not a public health expert and neither are you- taking a couple of safety courses for your job wouldn't qualify you as one btw
Worked in marketing research for 15 years until leaving that field last July. 75% of my revenue was from working on medical research studies (economic, not clinical) for the large pharma clients - so I have some experience in that arena and with numbers/stats as that plays into it. We conducted research in 50+ countries, so I am extremely detailed, as you have to be when dealing with subcontractors who speak English as a second language.; therefore, you also have to construct very structured written communications, so that they can understand completely what the required processes are to meet the study objectives. My clientele consisted of big pharma: Merck, J & J, Pfizer, GSK, et al......
I Don't make bold azz statements without substantial data to support my arguments - see below - we're waiting for the documentation Rudy.
Mask wearing by the ignorant public, who have no idea how to fit a mask, if they had one that was already not dirty and infested, is not helping anyone in stopping COVID to any meaningful level.

Again, a peer reviewed study, repressed since before the erection , came out today.
I graduated from Hamline with a Poly Sci degree, so naturally I understand it on a different level than some posters (I won't judge what bucket you fall in) on here or in the general public.

Lastly, I would be careful before trotting out you "peer reviewed" suppressed mask report, as there are several posters in my camp, much smarter than me, and I'm sure it will be thoroughly vetted on our end.

Ciao for Now!!
.
 
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Section2

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Do you understand masks are not meant to be some magic bullet? They are just one tool to help mitigate spread (NOT COMPLETELY PREVENT). Doctors and scientists say they are not a substitute for social distancing either. Like I said, you're living in black and white terms.

You're confusing science with politics. Politicians dictate policy. Are politicians actually following the science, should be what you're asking. Closing down elementary schools is not following the science.

Now, I literally just gave you a link to a thorough, scientific (but not yet peer reviewed), analysis of the potential effects of these strategies, and you countered with an article that has clearly cherry picked data - which conveniently cuts off it's graphs when it's argument doesn't hold up. That's what science is to you? You don't care about the science you care about the politics.

Take a look again: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.26.20202457v1.full.pdf
masks are one of the few recommendations that government can enforce
Trump didn’t wear a mask, so the left went hard the other way, only a maniac wouldn’t wear one!
Masks are a virtue signaling tool

those to me are the main reasons masks became such a big issue.
a tool to help mitigate? Sure, everyone gets that. all things being equal, masks might provide some benefit. And they might actually cause harm.

I’ve seen charts from basically every country in Europe and many states. Sure, slightly cherry picked, yes. But if they were an effective public health tool, the results would surely reflect that.

most public experts in all fields cause more harm than good. Foreign policy experts? Disaster. Economic experts? Disaster. And same with health policy experts. It’s not always clear why. Maybe decision making changes when you’re making policy for an entire country. Maybe the kinds of people politicians select are bad. But they really aren’t worth defending.
 

stocker08

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Do you have some kind of brain defect? Half the time you don’t even make sense. Are you making some kind of oblique reference to Peter Strzok, the guy nobody outside of the Trump dick sucking universe is aware of? Get a life, man.
Hard to make sense when you have a vocabulary that ends at twenty different words and are forced to simply list those words in different orders.
 

stocker08

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masks are one of the few recommendations that government can enforce
Trump didn’t wear a mask, so the left went hard the other way, only a maniac wouldn’t wear one!
Masks are a virtue signaling tool

those to me are the main reasons masks became such a big issue.
a tool to help mitigate? Sure, everyone gets that. all things being equal, masks might provide some benefit. And they might actually cause harm.

I’ve seen charts from basically every country in Europe and many states. Sure, slightly cherry picked, yes. But if they were an effective public health tool, the results would surely reflect that.

most public experts in all fields cause more harm than good. Foreign policy experts? Disaster. Economic experts? Disaster. And same with health policy experts. It’s not always clear why. Maybe decision making changes when you’re making policy for an entire country. Maybe the kinds of people politicians select are bad. But they really aren’t worth defending.
Experts are usually wrong. The only thing that is right and good is Trump. 🤪
 

RahSkiUMah

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masks are one of the few recommendations that government can enforce
Trump didn’t wear a mask, so the left went hard the other way, only a maniac wouldn’t wear one!
Masks are a virtue signaling tool

those to me are the main reasons masks became such a big issue.
a tool to help mitigate? Sure, everyone gets that. all things being equal, masks might provide some benefit. And they might actually cause harm.

I’ve seen charts from basically every country in Europe and many states. Sure, slightly cherry picked, yes. But if they were an effective public health tool, the results would surely reflect that.

most public experts in all fields cause more harm than good. Foreign policy experts? Disaster. Economic experts? Disaster. And same with health policy experts. It’s not always clear why. Maybe decision making changes when you’re making policy for an entire country. Maybe the kinds of people politicians select are bad. But they really aren’t worth defending.
Oof that’s a crazy amount of confirmation bias right there. No use trying to argue with that.
 

Wally

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masks are one of the few recommendations that government can enforce
Trump didn’t wear a mask, so the left went hard the other way, only a maniac wouldn’t wear one!
Masks are a virtue signaling tool
STFU with this garbage already. I suppose they are wearing masks in asia because Trump....

Why don't you compare the numbers to asia where masks are more accepted and prevalent than any western country?
Confirmation bias much???
 
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Wally

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masks are one of the few recommendations that government can enforce
Trump didn’t wear a mask, so the left went hard the other way, only a maniac wouldn’t wear one!
Masks are a virtue signaling tool

those to me are the main reasons masks became such a big issue.
a tool to help mitigate? Sure, everyone gets that. all things being equal, masks might provide some benefit. And they might actually cause harm.

I’ve seen charts from basically every country in Europe and many states. Sure, slightly cherry picked, yes. But if they were an effective public health tool, the results would surely reflect that.

most public experts in all fields cause more harm than good. Foreign policy experts? Disaster. Economic experts? Disaster. And same with health policy experts. It’s not always clear why. Maybe decision making changes when you’re making policy for an entire country. Maybe the kinds of people politicians select are bad. But they really aren’t worth defending.
Most of this is because they are heavily biased by money. It usually comes back to the $$.

All the experts said we would have a big surge in the fall. You idiots all said it was over, it would go away after the election and other rediculous things. The experts were spot on and it was the politicians and people who failed.
 

Section2

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Oof that’s a crazy amount of confirmation bias right there. No use trying to argue with that.
There’s really no use trying to argue. I understand that masks can help reduce droplets in the air. I get that it’s a tool. But you seem to be taking the position that science and progressives haven’t been overstating their important and effectiveness, and I think that point is kind of the crux of your argument and I think dead wrong.
 

Section2

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Most of this is because they are heavily biased by money. It usually comes back to the $$.

All the experts said we would have a big surge in the fall. You idiots all said it was over, it would go away after the election and other rediculous things. The experts were spot on and it was the politicians and people who failed.
Huh? I said from the beginning that it was madness to shut down in spring and summer because of course we were going to surge in the winter. The idiotic big ten delayed the start of the season UNTIL flu season.
I didn’t necessarily think the virus would go away, only that the media and lefts framing of it would change.
the experts have been wrong from the beginning
 

RahSkiUMah

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There’s really no use trying to argue. I understand that masks can help reduce droplets in the air. I get that it’s a tool. But you seem to be taking the position that science and progressives haven’t been overstating their important and effectiveness, and I think that point is kind of the crux of your argument and I think dead wrong.
The crux of your argument is that science and progressives are the same thing. They’re not. What CNN says science says and what science actually says are two very different things. Look at CDC mask recommendations vs what progressives are out there saying about masks.
 

Section2

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STFU with this garbage already. I suppose they are wearing masks in asia because Trump....

Why don't you compare the numbers to asia where masks are more accepted and prevalent than any western country?
Confirmation bias much???
Europe is the better corollary to the US. And thankfully they all handled it differently. Italy did exactly what Fauci recommended. For months they were the example of how to handle. Not so much now. Obviously we don’t even need to bring up Sweden which destroys your arguments.
 

golf

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Technically they state an “odds ratio of 0.82 (CI of 0.54 to 1.23)”. So their “mean” would be about 18% (1-0.82) reduct
Technically they state an “odds ratio of 0.82 (CI of 0.54 to 1.23)”. So their “mean” would be about 18% (1-0.82) reduction in risk of infection. When talking odds ratios, the mean isn’t always perfectly centered between the CI upper and lower limits.

BUT, we should note they didn’t find this to be “statistically significant”, which means we can’t say for certain that this result wasn’t just due to chance. So in the future someone would maybe try and repeat this study with a larger sample size, to see if this finding is significant. This study specifically asked the question, “does wearing a surgical mask reduce risk of infection by 50% or more?” Their results suggest no, it doesn’t reduce risk that amount.
Thanks for the tutorial. Much appreciated. Certainly seems a little strange to put so much effort into a study that delivers so little. :)
 

RahSkiUMah

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Thanks for the tutorial. Much appreciated. Certainly seems a little strange to put so much effort into a study that delivers so little. :)
Haha you just described so much science in a nutshell. If you’re doing it right, the answers only lead to more questions! We’ve gotta start somewhere though.
 

Section2

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Why?
How are S Korea and Japan not good comparisons?

Maybe because they don't give you the answer you want?
Europe is closer to the US culturally than Asia. And Europe is better because it’s a cluster of geographically dense countries that employed different tactics, so we can assess the results better. Japan is an island. South Korea is essentially an island.
And really, when the public health experts said it was ok to riot and protest, the debate was over.
 

Wally

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Europe is closer to the US culturally than Asia. And Europe is better because it’s a cluster of geographically dense countries that employed different tactics, so we can assess the results better. Japan is an island. South Korea is essentially an island.
And really, when the public health experts said it was ok to riot and protest, the debate was over.
Once the boarders were closed the US became essentially an island.

There was no spike from the protests, none. They were outside.
 

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Haha you just described so much science in a nutshell. If you’re doing it right, the answers only lead to more questions! We’ve gotta start somewhere though.
Thought you might find this article interesting. The last sentence of the article sums things up pretty well i guess.

 

RahSkiUMah

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Thought you might find this article interesting. The last sentence of the article sums things up pretty well i guess.

Yes the messaging has certainly been bastardized by politics. When the CDC changed their recommendations earlier in the year, the messaging was that wearing a mask may help protect others from you. We do know that droplets and particles are partially filtered by surgical and cloth masks. They’re called surgical masks because they’re worn in surgery by staff to protect the patient from the surgeon and staff, not to protect the staff from the patient. This article is absolutely accurate, what level of benefit a surgical or cloth mask provides to the wearer is still not fully elucidated. Thanks for the article!
 

justthefacts

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Prior to 2020, scientists and doctors recommended hand washing and quarantining the sick as the ways to combat flus. There has really been no statistical benefit to nations which instituted mask mandates or lockdowns. They all look pretty much the same. So maybe the old wisdom was correct, and the new (politically motivated?) “science” is wrong.
TRUMPKINS: The flu kills 80,000 people every year!
ALSO TRUMPKINS: It looks like the old ways of combating the flu are the right ways!









 

Section2

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Once the boarders were closed the US became essentially an island.

There was no spike from the protests, none. They were outside.
states are not islands.

Then why are outdoor stadiums closed? Why was Trumps outdoor rose garden scotus event such a super spreader? Regardless, when right wing favored events are outlawed, and left wing events are ignored or approved by public health experts, trust is gone. So I guess don’t be surprised and shake your head why right wingers no longer listen to your experts.
 

Wally

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states are not islands.

Then why are outdoor stadiums closed? Why was Trumps outdoor rose garden scotus event such a super spreader? Regardless, when right wing favored events are outlawed, and left wing events are ignored or approved by public health experts, trust is gone. So I guess don’t be surprised and shake your head why right wingers no longer listen to your experts.
Whatever...
Cry more about the protests. You talk about them like they could have beem canceled like a rose garden event. Really?
 

Gopher_In_NYC

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STFU with this garbage already. I suppose they are wearing masks in asia because Trump....

Why don't you compare the numbers to asia where masks are more accepted and prevalent than any western country?
Confirmation bias much???
South Korea had its first case the same day we did and with population of 50M has ~500 deaths; that's mathematics even an economic consultant should be able to grasp...LOL
 

cncmin

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states are not islands.

Then why are outdoor stadiums closed? Why was Trumps outdoor rose garden scotus event such a super spreader? Regardless, when right wing favored events are outlawed, and left wing events are ignored or approved by public health experts, trust is gone. So I guess don’t be surprised and shake your head why right wingers no longer listen to your experts.
Why in the world are you dying on this hill? Masks work to slow down transmission to some extent, period. It's simple physics and biology that anyone with any common sense can grasp. At very worst, mask wearing is a miniscule inconvenience on the populace that does nothing. At best, it mitigates and tamps down the spread of the virus, prevents more illnesses and death prior to bigger and better solutions, and in the end far less people will be injured and die. Mask wearing also enables us to nearly completely go about our regular daily lives during a pandemic and keeps the vast majority of the economy open, with certain minor (and less minor) exceptions. What exactly is your issue, dude? To argue against mask wearing is absolutely absurd at best and potentially catastrophic at worst. Stop.
 

Section2

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Whatever...
Cry more about the protests. You talk about them like they could have beem canceled like a rose garden event. Really?
Whatever. The response of a loser.
I’m not crying about the protests. That isn’t the subject. The subject is public health experts. All they had to say was that protesting is not ok in terms of COVID spread. They didn’t have to make a value judgement at all. That’s what an apolitical body would do. But it’s not what they did.
 

Section2

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Why in the world are you dying on this hill? Masks work to slow down transmission to some extent, period. It's simple physics and biology that anyone with any common sense can grasp. At very worst, mask wearing is a miniscule inconvenience on the populace that does nothing. At best, it mitigates and tamps down the spread of the virus, prevents more illnesses and death prior to bigger and better solutions, and in the end far less people will be injured and die. Mask wearing also enables us to nearly completely go about our regular daily lives during a pandemic and keeps the vast majority of the economy open, with certain minor (and less minor) exceptions. What exactly is your issue, dude? To argue against mask wearing is absolutely absurd at best and potentially catastrophic at worst. Stop.
I’m not dying on any hill. Yes, if I have Covid, and properly use a mask, then I will be reducing the amount of viral droplets i eject into the air. Yet states and countries that have instituted mask requirements have often seen cases explode AFTER instituting the policy. People like you just ignore the numbers. Can’t be that you’ve missed something. Can’t be that you haven’t considered some unintended consequences. Can’t be that you don’t totally understand the virus or transmission sufficiently. It’s the stupid people who are wrong.
 

cncmin

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Do you understand masks are not meant to be some magic bullet? They are just one tool to help mitigate spread (NOT COMPLETELY PREVENT). Doctors and scientists say they are not a substitute for social distancing either. Like I said, you're living in black and white terms.

You're confusing science with politics. Politicians dictate policy. Are politicians actually following the science, should be what you're asking. Closing down elementary schools is not following the science.

Now, I literally just gave you a link to a thorough, scientific (but not yet peer reviewed), analysis of the potential effects of these strategies, and you countered with an article that has clearly cherry picked data - which conveniently cuts off it's graphs when it's argument doesn't hold up. That's what science is to you? You don't care about the science you care about the politics.

Take a look again: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.26.20202457v1.full.pdf
S2, yet another person calling you out for your silly binary world. RahSkiUMah, thank you for your service to facts and reality.
 

cncmin

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I’m not dying on any hill. Yes, if I have Covid, and properly use a mask, then I will be reducing the amount of viral droplets i eject into the air. Yet states and countries that have instituted mask requirements have often seen cases explode AFTER instituting the policy. People like you just ignore the numbers. Can’t be that you’ve missed something. Can’t be that you haven’t considered some unintended consequences. Can’t be that you don’t totally understand the virus or transmission sufficiently. It’s the stupid people who are wrong.
The cases explode not because people are wearing masks and social distancing, but because they are not. This isn't difficult to understand in the least.

I'll try to help you out with your thought processes, because you clearly have a severe mental block here. A Governor installs a mask mandate for people in public places and in businesses. Person A gets Covid, through no fault of his own. For a while, Person A is contagious, but non-symptomatic. During this period, Person A wears his mask at the grocery store and at his workplace, but does not wear his mask at home. Within days, Person A's wife (A-B), son (A-C) and daughter (A-D) have come down with Covid. Person A also did not wear his mask at the gym and spreads Covid to Persons A-E, A-F, A-G, and A-H, each of whom spread it to their own families.

During the same asymptomatic period, Person A visits his grandparents (A-I and A-J) and his sister's family (A-K, A-L, and A-M), and in neither case wears a mask around "family". They all come down with Covid days later. Person A also visits his best friends and has a few beers with them. They all get excited about the Gophers win versus Purdue. A week later, Persons A-N and A-O test positive for Covid after showing symptoms. Meanwhile, A-N and A-O have spread the virus to their families. And the spread continues.

All of this is happening because of a lack of mask wearing while under a mask mandate, and it's because of complacency. Mask mandates only work if and when people actually abide by them. Social distancing, combined with mask wearing, only works if and when people do this at all times. It's not the masks failing us, it's the people.
 
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