Coyle will not allow Spring sports to give extra scholarships to athletes with extra eligibility

ClassOf98Gopher

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He has already told spring coaches he would allowed the expanded rosters, per my link. Could he change that, sure. But I'm going off what he has told them so far.


It's the principle that matters.

If it's "OK" to not let our softball (or baseball, or track) be on a level playing field with what SEC schools are spending, then why even allow them to max out their scholarships at all? Why allow them to spend a full budget? Etc. Just cut the sport, that saves the most money.
Those on the softball board have already heard my views on this subject (most disagree with me I think) but I just have to say that if you are trying to have your Big Ten program compete against the SEC in softball or baseball you are basically destined to bang your head against a brick wall in perpetuity.

Your real competition is other Big Ten teams. Your championship is the Big Ten championship. Your goal should be winning Big Tens. Do those things and then anything after that is unexpected desert.

But fans and the program should not be geared for thinking that their competition is against the Florida/Alabama/LSU/Texas/Arizona/UCLA etc. teams of the SEC/Pac12. Why? The NCAA competitive seasons do not align with the northern weather. When it is too hot to play softball/baseball in the South, there is no NCAA season as it is the traditional summer break. So 100 percent of the softball/baseball season in the SEC takes place under really good weather to play softball/baseball. About 20% of the Gophers’ softball/baseball season takes place during good weather to play those sports. It is a huge disadvantage in recruiting.

If you are a Gophers softball or baseball fanatic (as I am), focus on the B1G as your completion and you will find yourself a happier and more contented person.
 

MplsGopher

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Baseball fine, but you’re wrong on softball. In fact weren’t we ranked #1 in the nation a couple years ago?
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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Baseball fine, but you’re wrong on softball. In fact weren’t we ranked #1 in the nation a couple years ago?
I am extremely well aware of that fact. A team like the Gophers may never have a pitcher like Sara Groenewagen again. She was that dominant; especially in 2017. And she was barely recruited at all before her senior season in high school in British Columbia. We got SO lucky with her; a basically Unrecruited diabetic who turned out to have the nastiest change up college softball has seen maybe ever. You won’t see that type of from nowhere rise to pitching excellence again in your whole life. Luck can get a team like the Gophers a few great seasons in a row, but it cannot last forever like it does with the Oklahoma’s of the NCAA.

Which brings me to my proof. After 2019 Trachsel worked hard to recruit a high school phenom pitcher from the Nebraska/Iowa border who just de-committed from a fellow Big Ten school (Nebraska). We had just come off a Women’s college World Series run. Now was the time to get a northern phenom like that and... Jordy Bahil committed to... Oklahoma.

YOU are wrong if you think we can ever “continually” compete at the top 8 level of the NCAA. What we can continually do is compete in the top tier of the Big Ten. And that should be good enough if you are a logical, dispassionate person.
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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I am sorry if I write in a prickly way on this topic but I write with with the zeal of a “spiritual convert“ on this topic because I had similar hopes for our softball and baseball programs just a couple years ago. However, now I save my high expectations for Gopher hockey, basketball, wrestling, volleyball, and football where high, top NCAA level, expectations are appropriate.

As for softball and baseball, just enjoy the show and feel free to be frustrated if they are bombing out of the top 4 of the B1G conference.

Oh, and her name is Jordan (Jordy) Bahl. Typo
 

rugger14

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I am sorry if I write in a prickly way on this topic but I write with with the zeal of a “spiritual convert“ on this topic because I had similar hopes for our softball and baseball programs just a couple years ago. However, now I save my high expectations for Gopher hockey, basketball, wrestling, volleyball, and football where high, top NCAA level, expectations are appropriate.

As for softball and baseball, just enjoy the show and feel free to be frustrated if they are bombing out of the top 4 of the B1G conference.

Oh, and her name is Jordan (Jordy) Bahl. Typo
Prior to PJ you would not have included football on your list. Just sayin... The football team has all the same disadvantages as the softball team and even less in-state talent.
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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Prior to PJ you would not have included football on your list. Just sayin... The football team has all the same disadvantages as the softball team and even less in-state talent.
Minnesota has good football weather for 80 percent of the season before it gets too cold. The SEC has 10 percent of the football season where it is too hot. I do not claim the same natural, weather based disadvantages for football as I do softball.
 

rugger14

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Minnesota has good football weather for 80 percent of the season before it gets too cold. The SEC has 10 percent of the football season where it is too hot. I do not claim the same natural, weather based disadvantages for football as I do softball.
Jamie has the same chance to be elite as PJ does and inherited a much better situation.
 

MplsGopher

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Yeah, sorry ClassOf ... you're simply wrong. There is no reason the Gophers can't be as good as SEC in softball. No reason at all. Your weather argument is not valid.

But of course, Coyle not letting them be on a level playing field in scholarships, won't help.
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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Yeah, sorry ClassOf ... you're simply wrong. There is no reason the Gophers can't be as good as SEC in softball. No reason at all. Your weather argument is not valid.

But of course, Coyle not letting them be on a level playing field in scholarships, won't help.
The softball board is the better place to discuss this; and I really have not much more to say in the matter.

But I am telling you, as I live in Tennessee, 90 percent of elite Southern girls who play softball want to play softball in 5000 seat SEC or PAC12 stadiums where they can play 40 games at home a year. Probably 50 percent of top caliber northern belt, Big Ten country girls dream of playing in those environments as well. How can the Gophers finance a 5000 seat softball stadium to play 15-18 games a year?

Just follow the recruiting annual lists and player rankings and this dynamic is so apparent that you don’t need to listen to a random guy like me on a message board; Just look at the numbers! It is obvious. It blows my mind if other educated people don’t see these obvious facts.

Again to all, I am sorry for my cantankerousness on this subject but I do get frustrated when people ignore facts.
 

MplsGopher

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We can easily build a 5k seat softball field. Will that many people sit there for a game? I don't know.

Do 5k people routinely go to Oklahoma, Alabama, Stanford, etc. softball games?


As you were getting at, my point here is not to discuss the success of the Gophers softball team. Rather it is the principle that they should get to have a level playing field in scholarships as the rest of the nation.

Same with football and basketball.

Scholarships funded for a sport, should have nothing to do with that sports potential to be nationally competitive.
 

Panthadad2

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The softball board is the better place to discuss this; and I really have not much more to say in the matter.

But I am telling you, as I live in Tennessee, 90 percent of elite Southern girls who play softball want to play softball in 5000 seat SEC or PAC12 stadiums where they can play 40 games at home a year. Probably 50 percent of top caliber northern belt, Big Ten country girls dream of playing in those environments as well. How can the Gophers finance a 5000 seat softball stadium to play 15-18 games a year?

Just follow the recruiting annual lists and player rankings and this dynamic is so apparent that you don’t need to listen to a random guy like me on a message board; Just look at the numbers! It is obvious. It blows my mind if other educated people don’t see these obvious facts.

Again to all, I am sorry for my cantankerousness on this subject but I do get frustrated when people ignore facts.
I get the weather argument, but the fan attendance assumption is way way off. There's only one team that averaged 3,000 fans in Alabama. Three others average over 2,000 Oregon, Arizona and Auburn. Everyone else is below 2,000. Link here.

I still wish the Goph softball team would figure out a way to play at US Bank in a decently configured setting.
 

Panthadad2

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I get the weather argument, but the fan attendance assumption is way way off. There's only one team that averaged 3,000 fans in Alabama. Three others average over 2,000 Oregon, Arizona and Auburn. Everyone else is below 2,000. Link here.

I still wish the Goph softball team would figure out a way to play at US Bank in a decently configured setting.
I should have mentioned... those are 2018 attendance figures. The Gophers 2019 figures will jump way up due to regionals and super regionals.
 

rugger14

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We can easily build a 5k seat softball field. Will that many people sit there for a game? I don't know.

Do 5k people routinely go to Oklahoma, Alabama, Stanford, etc. softball games?


As you were getting at, my point here is not to discuss the success of the Gophers softball team. Rather it is the principle that they should get to have a level playing field in scholarships as the rest of the nation.

Same with football and basketball.

Scholarships funded for a sport, should have nothing to do with that sports potential to be nationally competitive.
Check out Hope Scholarships in Tennessee Georgia and Florida. Tough to get those ladies to leave their home state without offering a full scholarship. Those scholarships tip the scales in the direction of in-state schools.
 

MplsGopher

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Check out Hope Scholarships in Tennessee Georgia and Florida. Tough to get those ladies to leave their home state without offering a full scholarship. Those scholarships tip the scales in the direction of in-state schools.
Why? What I found was a K-12 program.
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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Why? What I found was a K-12 program.
Rugger14 is correct. Hope Scholarships in these startes are financed out of state lottery and gaming sales (Powerball and other game tickets sold at convenience stores). They are for kids with greater than a Threshold GPA (3.0 is the best example) to go to college. There is a tiny part of this overall amount of money that was siphoned off to support K-12 (at least in Tennessee) because at the time gaming revenues exceeded outlays.

If I remember right, Minnesota gaming money went to DNR programs, right?
 

MplsGopher

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Rugger14 is correct. Hope Scholarships in these startes are financed out of state lottery and gaming sales (Powerball and other game tickets sold at convenience stores). They are for kids with greater than a Threshold GPA (3.0 is the best example) to go to college. There is a tiny part of this overall amount of money that was siphoned off to support K-12 (at least in Tennessee) because at the time gaming revenues exceeded outlays.

If I remember right, Minnesota gaming money went to DNR programs, right?
Any financial aid, from any source (school or 3rd party) given to an athlete counts as athletic aid.

You can't give a softball player a full ride via a Hope Scholarship and still pretend she's just a walk-on who doesn't count against the team's limit. It doesn't work like that.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're suggesting.
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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Any financial aid, from any source (school or 3rd party) given to an athlete counts as athletic aid.

You can't give a softball player a full ride via a Hope Scholarship and still pretend she's just a walk-on who doesn't count against the team's limit. It doesn't work like that.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're suggesting.
I am giving you all my understanding of the situation, but I am not an expert in college athletic financial rules. I thought, as all graduating Tennessee high school students with a 21 ACT and a 3.0 GPA, for instance, are able to get the following:
“Four-Year Institutions and two-year institutions with on-campus housing: Up to $1,750 per full-time enrollment semester as a freshmen and sophomore; then up to $2,250 per full-time enrollment semester as a junior and senior
Any financial aid, from any source (school or 3rd party) given to an athlete counts as athletic aid.

You can't give a softball player a full ride via a Hope Scholarship and still pretend she's just a walk-on who doesn't count against the team's limit. It doesn't work like that.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're suggesting.
I am giving you all my layman’s understanding of the situation, but I am not an expert in college athletic financial rules. I thought, as each and every graduating Tennessee (for instance) high school student with a 21 ACT and a 3.0 GPA, athletes or not, are able to get the following money:
“Four-Year Institutions and two-year institutions with on-campus housing: Up to $1,750 per full-time enrollment semester as a freshmen and sophomore; then up to $2,250 per full-time enrollment semester as a junior and senior”

Therefore, an athletic program that has a scholarship limit much lower than the roster needed to field a team (basically all sports but football and basketball), can cobble together for the student athlete their HOPE money, their other eligible financial aid, and finally any partial athletic scholarship money allowable you that sport (I think softball’s limit is 13) to lower the direct financial cost on that student athlete.

As HOPE money is broad-based and not applicable only to athletes, it is usable by athletes.
 

MplsGopher

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I thought, as each and every graduating Tennessee (for instance) high school student with a 21 ACT and a 3.0 GPA, athletes or not, are able to get the following money:
“Four-Year Institutions and two-year institutions with on-campus housing: Up to $1,750 per full-time enrollment semester as a freshmen and sophomore; then up to $2,250 per full-time enrollment semester as a junior and senior”
Thanks for clarifying.

Then if this is just a state version of a Pell Grant (or similar), I do agree it would not count against the team scholarship limit.

But the argument still only works if the Hope money can only be used for in-state, or perhaps "in region", higher ed. Is that true?
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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Thanks for clarifying.

Then if this is just a state version of a Pell Grant (or similar), I do agree it would not count against the team scholarship limit.

But the argument still only works if the Hope money can only be used for in-state, or perhaps "in region", higher ed. Is that true?
Yup. In-State public or private college or university.
 

MplsGopher

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Ok, sure it’s money.

I don’t see why most walk-on softball players from the Midwest would not qualify for federal Pell grants (and the like).
 

SelectionSunday

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Get rid of both golf teams, both tennis teams, and both gymnastics teams. Have to keep rowing, though, for Title IX reasons.

That’s one way to save some money.
 

ClassOf98Gopher

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Uh, I think we need those teams to meet our athletic department-wide academic performance targets. I think those are the teams of STUDENT/athletes we need to offset the performance of some of our more “high profile” student/ATHLETE teams so our athletic department doesn’t get on the wrong side of either public opinion or the NCAA.
 

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Uh, I think we need those teams to meet our athletic department-wide academic performance targets. I think those are the teams of STUDENT/athletes we need to offset the performance of some of our more “high profile” student/ATHLETE teams so our athletic department doesn’t get on the wrong side of either public opinion or the NCAA.
Not to mention cutting those sports doesn't save that much money.

The U needed to raise only 2.7 million in 2002 to save Mens Gym and both Golfs for three years.
 

MplsGopher

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Get rid of both golf teams, both tennis teams, and both gymnastics teams. Have to keep rowing, though, for Title IX reasons.

That’s one way to save some money.
Like others have mentioned, I would not be surprised if those were the cheapest teams in the athletic dept. Maybe swimming too.
 
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