Candace Owens Has Got it Going On!

Section2

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We have other words for what goes on in Venezuela, but you don't mind tagging the entire thing with "socialism."

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justthefacts

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Good Lord, what a dumb discussion. Of course, any time a Loony Lefty can associate a conservative with Hitler it's all systems go.

She was asked about nationalism. She decided to include Hitler in her answer.
 

Section2

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Again, if people want to promote non-interventionism, call it non-interventionism. But you can tell from Owens' discussion of birthrates that's not what she means.

I'd also point out that globalism is what stopped Hitler.

Connotations and associations is what you keep wanting to drive the conversation back toward. But like I said:

-identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.
-advocacy of or support for the political independence of a particular nation or people.

I wouldn't consider the above to be synonymous with non-interventionism. So I don't know why you're throwing it in.
 

Section2

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Who's playing loose? She didn't say "socialism." She explicitly drew the distinction with extending beyond Germany. She could have easily contrasted something positive Hitler did (?) with the Holocaust, but she didn't. She contrasted him "want[ing] to make Germany great and make things run well" with "dreams outside Germany." The sentences are back-to-back. She said "The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside Germany." She did not say, "The problem is that he wanted to implement socialism," or "the problem is that he wanted to murder Jews." She didn't even say, "a problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside Germany."

Again, it's fine to try to have a positive interpretation of what she said. It's not fine to pretend that the guy who first linked a video and then quoted her exact words is the one "playing loose."

I said Socialism. That's why I started that sentence with "I think".

You can try to get everyone ginned up on this, but it's going nowhere. One, she's not an important figure. Two, what she said was a bad response but nothing to get worked up over. You need to try to spin meaning to make it sound really bad.
 

KillerGopherFan

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I said Socialism. That's why I started that sentence with "I think".

You can try to get everyone ginned up on this, but it's going nowhere. One, she's not an important figure. Two, what she said was a bad response but nothing to get worked up over. You need to try to spin meaning to make it sound really bad.
That’s why I call him...justthenarrative
 

justthefacts

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Connotations and associations is what you keep wanting to drive the conversation back toward. But like I said:

-identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.
-advocacy of or support for the political independence of a particular nation or people.

I wouldn't consider the above to be synonymous with non-interventionism. So I don't know why you're throwing it in.

I showed you many examples of other people noting the association between nationalism and ethnicity/religion. In reality those are included. Owens also included that in HER definition when she mentioned birthrates.

If she's not an important figure and she gave a bad response, why the compulsion to repeatedly defend her? Why not just say, "She sucks, nationalism can be problematic, patriotism is good." Why do you have to say that I'm spinning when I've just quoted her word for word multiple times? At least with Steve King you eventually stopped defending him. It doesn't need to be so hard.

I'd also note that the update today that got this conversation going was that 3 TPUSA chapters called for her to be kicked out.
 

justthefacts

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That’s why I call him...justthenarrative

You spun it. I quoted her. You tried to find a positive interpretation. When presented with her exact words, you resort to attacking me. Altering someone's board handle has to be the least-effective and most juvenile form of argument this board has to offer. And that's saying something.
 
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Section2

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I showed you many examples of other people noting the association between nationalism and ethnicity/religion. In reality those are included. Owens also included that in HER definition when she mentioned birthrates.

If she's not an important figure and she gave a bad response, why the compulsion to repeatedly defend her? Why not just say, "She sucks, nationalism can be problematic, patriotism is good." Why do you have to say that I'm spinning when I've just quoted her word for word multiple times? At least with Steve King you eventually stopped defending him. It doesn't need to be so hard.

I'd also note that the update today that got this conversation going was that 3 TPUSA chapters called for her to be kicked out.

That's great. People can note it all they want. Is there a political philosophy that can't be linked and associated with death and destruction?

I don't recall ever defending Steve King.

TPUSA is kind of a joke too.
 

GopherJake

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Uh huh. And what did he actually do? And how did he go about doing it?

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KillerGopherFan

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You spun it. I quoted her. You tried to find a positive interpretation. When presented with her exact words, you resort to attacking me. Altering someone's board handle has to be the least-effective and most juvenile form of argument this board has to offer. And that's saying something.
Yeah, tell jake to stop calling me KFC
 

KillerGopherFan

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You spun it. I quoted her. You tried to find a positive interpretation. When presented with her exact words, you resort to attacking me. Altering someone's board handle has to be the least-effective and most juvenile form of argument this board has to offer. And that's saying something.
And you did more than quote her. You interpreted.
 

justthefacts

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That's great. People can note it all they want. Is there a political philosophy that can't be linked and associated with death and destruction?

I don't recall ever defending Steve King.

TPUSA is kind of a joke too.

OK, let's turn it around. Can you find an example of a nationalist party whose ideology is not based on ethnicity and/or religion?

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...ributed-to-civilization&p=1612616#post1612616
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...ributed-to-civilization&p=1612692#post1612692
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...ributed-to-civilization&p=1612742#post1612742
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...ributed-to-civilization&p=1612751#post1612751
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...ributed-to-civilization&p=1612806#post1612806
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...ributed-to-civilization&p=1612807#post1612807
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...ributed-to-civilization&p=1613045#post1613045


Yes, TPUSA is a joke, but they're Candace Owens' group. The point is I'm not out on a limb here thinking her comments were crazy.
 
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Section2

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Sorry, what did all that work prove?
https://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-nationalism.html
Examples of nationalism include:

Any situation in which a nation comes together for a specific cause or in reaction to a significant event
The Battle of New Orleans in which Americans united at the conclusion of the American Revolution
The waving of flags and passionate anthem singing
The great outpouring of support by citizens of a nation for their athletes in the Olympics
The unity of Americans and outpouring of patriotic actions after the events of September 11
Nationalism is evident in European countries' colonial expansion
The election of a nationalist party in 2007 in Scotland
Wales' successful election of a new party in 2007
The French Revolution
The Made In the USA campaign
Symbols such as the Union Jack and songs such as Rule, Brittania! are examples of the manifestation of nationalism in England in the 1700's
The Greek War of Independence was begun by Greek nationalists as a show of united rebellion
Pan-Turkism, an ideology of Turkish nationalists
Pahlavi was able to increase nationalist ideology in Iran during his rule by boosting patriotism
The Japanese, during WWII, displayed nationalism
 

justthefacts

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Sorry, what did all that work prove?
https://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-nationalism.html
Examples of nationalism include:

Any situation in which a nation comes together for a specific cause or in reaction to a significant event
The Battle of New Orleans in which Americans united at the conclusion of the American Revolution
The waving of flags and passionate anthem singing
The great outpouring of support by citizens of a nation for their athletes in the Olympics
The unity of Americans and outpouring of patriotic actions after the events of September 11
Nationalism is evident in European countries' colonial expansion
The election of a nationalist party in 2007 in Scotland
Wales' successful election of a new party in 2007
The French Revolution
The Made In the USA campaign
Symbols such as the Union Jack and songs such as Rule, Brittania! are examples of the manifestation of nationalism in England in the 1700's
The Greek War of Independence was begun by Greek nationalists as a show of united rebellion
Pan-Turkism, an ideology of Turkish nationalists
Pahlavi was able to increase nationalist ideology in Iran during his rule by boosting patriotism
The Japanese, during WWII, displayed nationalism

A) I said "party" I will grant you that the Scottish National Party is a self-described nationalist party, but it almost proves my point. Nationalism for them means separating from England. What does nationalism in the United States mean? We're already a country.

B) You weren't really keen on historical meaning of nationalism previously, but now you seem to be. How many current nationalist parties have no ethnic or religious component to their ideologies?

C) That list above includes things that are clearly just "patriotism." "Waving of flags" is not nationalism. Nationalism is explicitly wanting your country to succeed at the expense of others. Waving a flag is just patriotism. The French Revolution was not "nationalism." Owens and TPUSA aren't a group that advocates for the nation coming together. That's clearly not what they intend. Again, regardless of the Hitler stuff, she mentioned birthrates.

D) Your link has several examples of the ethnic/religious component of nationalism. You even included one with Pan-Turkism. Whether you like it or not that is tied up in the meaning. You and Owens can pretend it doesn't have that baggage and it's all 4th of July parades and red, white, and blue teddy bears, but it goes way beyond that. If she wants to advocate for all that stuff, just call it "patriotism."

E) Your link also contradicts Owens. Pan-Turkism and the Japanese in WWII are very much about expanding power outside of their own country. England in the 1700s was hell-bent on conquering the world.
 

Section2

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I will grant you that the Scottish National Party is a self-described nationalist party, but it almost proves my point. Nationalism for them means separating from England.

How does that prove your point??!

C) Owens and TPUSA aren't a group that advocates for the nation coming together. That's clearly not what they intend.

D) Your link has several examples of the ethnic/religious component of nationalism. You even included one with Pan-Turkism. Whether you like it or not that is tied up in the meaning. You and Owens can pretend it doesn't have that baggage and it's all 4th of July parades and red, white, and blue teddy bears, but it goes way beyond that. If she wants to advocate for all that stuff, just call it "patriotism."

E) Your link also contradicts Owens. Pan-Turkism and the Japanese in WWII are very much about expanding power outside of their own country. England in the 1700s was hell-bent on conquering the world.

C) of course they advocate that.


D) So what, I gave you a boatload of examples, some of which disprove your point.

E) You specifically said, show me a nationalist party that is not based on race or religion. The link I sent disproved you.

This is stupid. Nationalism doesn't mean ethnic cleaning, it doesn't mean fascism, and it doesn't mean religious extremism. It can include those things, or it cannot. Trump is a self described nationalist. His opponents think it proves he's literally Hitler. Which is why you have his supporters defending him.

EVERY SINGLE political philosophy can be traced to bad things. Could I argue socialism means taking over the world? Bernie wants to take over the world. Why? Well, socialism is linked with USSR which did.

That's the kind of pathetic argument you're trying to make. Just stop.
 
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justthefacts

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How does that prove your point??!


Could I argue socialism means taking over the world? Bernie wants to take over the world. Why? Well, socialism is linked with USSR which did.

The absolute, number 1, go-to argument against socialism on this board and all over the Conservative media world is to point out that Venezuela and the USSR were socialist.

You still haven't said anything about Owens' reference to birthrates.
 

Section2

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The absolute, number 1, go-to argument against socialism on this board and all over the Conservative media world is to point out that Venezuela and the USSR were socialist.

You still haven't said anything about Owens' reference to birthrates.

Yeah, socialism is government control of the means of production. Scandinavian countries do not have government control of the means of production, they are welfare states - high tax rates with capitalism. Countries which DO/DID have gov't control of production include the widely praised by American socialists/Democrats - Chavez regime (until it led to eating zoo animals), and of course the USSR. If you advocate for socialism, you own those two.

I didn't see the reference, which is why I haven't commented.

I'll take your response as an L.
 

justthefacts

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Yeah, socialism is government control of the means of production. Scandinavian countries do not have government control of the means of production, they are welfare states - high tax rates with capitalism. Countries which DO/DID have gov't control of production include the widely praised by American socialists/Democrats - Chavez regime (until it led to eating zoo animals), and of course the USSR. If you advocate for socialism, you own those two.

I didn't see the reference, which is why I haven't commented.

I'll take your response as an L.

Oh, I see. So while there are extreme examples of socialism and lighter examples of socialism (there are lots of government run businesses in Scandinavia) we can concluded that all socialism is bad because of the extreme examples. But while there are extreme examples of nationalism and lighter examples of nationalism, to include the extreme examples in the definition is objectively incorrect. Useful guidelines.
 

Section2

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Oh, I see. So while there are extreme examples of socialism and lighter examples of socialism (there are lots of government run businesses in Scandinavia) we can concluded that all socialism is bad because of the extreme examples. But while there are extreme examples of nationalism and lighter examples of nationalism, to include the extreme examples in the definition is objectively incorrect. Useful guidelines.

Well yeah. Take any idea to the extreme and you quickly find out whether the underlying idea or principle is good or bad.

However: The holocaust isn't an extreme example of nationalism. And you couldn't argue that it is Venezuela is an extreme example of socialism.
 

LesBolstad

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Wow. She's amazing. I wonder if Sporty would be inspired by some freedom of thought.

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LesBolstad

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Still got it going on:

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justthefacts

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There's no such thing as bad publicity. Heck, our President is proof of that. But beyond that, one need look no further than Kanye's last album.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...ye-west-album-controversy-20160218-story.html



https://www.usatoday.com/story/life...t-famous-video-taylor-swift-lawsuit/86549972/



https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/4/1...st-riaa-platinum-certification-streaming-only


Let's also not forget that Kanye's most recent moment screwing up an awards ceremony on stage boosted Beck's sales:

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...ales-by-more-than-1000-per-cent-10036812.html

Ahem:


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Purely coincidentally, though:


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CurveballJesus

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You bumped a 10 month old thread to respond to your own over a year old comment...

Maybe it's time to take a break. This isn't normal behavior.
 

LesBolstad

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You bumped a 10 month old thread to respond to your own over a year old comment...

Maybe it's time to take a break. This isn't normal behavior.

Haha, that's solid! jtf does exhibit some oddball behavior but this one really is lunacy.
 

From the Parkinglot

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The video can be viewed and the election hasn't happened. Per this description, it also doesn't sound that great considering he was being arrested for 1 alleged counterfeit bill


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1.) why does it matter that it was only 1 bill. Per Minnesota statutes the penalty for possessing a counter fit bill is not more than 1 year in prison and a fine not to exceed $3,000.00. Plus he was a multi time offender of various laws, so strikes on your record add up.

2.) She said they wanted to divide the county in an election year which implies the election has not happened yet.

3.) Videos can change public opinion. Similair the Ray Rice incident where the people know what happened in the event, but then the video came out and you saw how graphic it was.

4.) The fact that the public would have to make an appointment to go view this video is a barrier to viewing. It was during Coved with lock downs, what about the people that don't have cars. It should have been widely available the moment it was unsealed.

5.) This video would not have stopped the city from burning though.
 
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