Black lives matter

stocker08

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Saw on the news tonight the reason they’re charging him with murder is they believe that he used his car to cut off Arbery’s escape path multiple times.

Absolutely he is every bit as guilty, if so.
One of the stories that I read said that Arbery ran away from them two times before the third confrontation and the shooting. So, at the very least, they were aggressively pursuing him.
 

MplsGopher

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One of the stories that I read said that Arbery ran away from them two times before the third confrontation and the shooting. So, at the very least, they were aggressively pursuing him.
Yep. I think it's gonna come out that the video released is like 20% of the story.

We already know the idea that "these guys were just standing there with their guns, when suddenly Arbery just violently charged one of them and he was forced to shoot him to save his life" is a total fabrication and lie.

I think these guys had been chasing him down for some time, and he just couldn't run away anymore.
 

Deleted_User

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among cops themselves there is disagreement about what one’s duty is while off duty

i remember when i was a reserve i was eating dinner at the hospital cafeteria (because when you work graves, the hospital cafeteria is the best place to eat). and these two cops were arguing about what they would do if they encountered a crime while off duty. the one said that he would act and the other said that he would be the best witness he could be.

at the time i though “of course a cop should step in” but since then i have come to the second guy’s understanding. for a number of reasons. the first is that i’m not in uniform when i am off duty. the uniform and badge immediately identify one as law enforcement. in civilian clothes and in a stressful situation, even having a badge on the belt or around the neck is going to be hard to distinguish.

second is that when i’m off duty, i don’t have all my tools. i have my words, my hands and my gun. if someone does no comply when i have my duty belt on, i have options. i have my radio to call for backup, oc spray, taser, baton. not to mention my bodycam. if i have my gun, handcuffs and hands, things can get ramped nip so quickly that i’d need to go to lethal force. it may be justified, but in the civil case, the lawyer is gonna say it wasn’t.

the third is because i am usually with my family. and i am always gonna put the safety of my family first when i am off duty.

the fourth is a consideration that all lawful carriers should have thought about before carrying a gun. if you have to use your gun lawfully (take it out or fire it) you and i aren’t gonna look much different to the average citizen than the active shooter or the criminal, no matter how much i say i’m a cop. in those stressful situations, people get tunnel vision. and then you’re likely gonna have police responding to an active shooter situation and my description is gonna be the description of the active shooter. or there’s gonna be another lawful carrier who sees me with a gun standing over a body and believe that im the bad guy and he’s gonna shoot me. so if you carry a gun and you believe that you are gonna stop a crime from happening with it, you should not only expect legal ramifications (whether you’re a cop or a citizen), but you should be prepared to be shot yourself.

now, i believe that there are definitely occasions that i would act in civilian clothes. but it is going to be wholly dependent on the situation. in most cases, i’m going to be the best witness i can be and protect my loved ones. because as someone once said, if you are carrying a gun, every fight is a gunfight.
I think police should have more training in human rights. Wouldn't you agree.
 

Deleted_User

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My take on the video:

Context: Cops find Arbery sleeping in his car, parked up on the grass, in a public park at 1:59pm.

Video:

- The video time line is confusing because it opens at the end of the video, then cuts to the beginning. Follow the time stamps in the upper right hand corner for clarity.

- 13:59 Arbery apparently is woken up, gets out of his car, and walks directly toward the cops. I immediately cringe at the way Arbery handled this. I'm a middle aged White guy who drives a Honda & I would NEVER approach the cops like that. The cop stayed cool, and politely asked for Arbery's ID.

- 14:00 Arbery gives the officer his ID, who politely says he'll "be right back" & heads to his squad car.

- 14:01 As the cop gets out of his car Arbery verbally unloads on him demanding "why you fuqin with me?", to which the cop said "keep your hand out of your pocket", to which Arbery yells "I ain't got shit on me, why the fuq you fuqing with me fo'!?", the cop sounds like he's getting rattled (imo) and tries to take command saying "I'll tell you why I'm here", but Arbery interrupts demanding "why!?. Why!"

14:02 Arbery's told he's being questioned because of drug activity in the park, and pretty much explodes on the cop verbally at that point while stepping into the cop's space in an aggressive manner. The cop is starting to lose control to Arbery, imo & commands Arbery to turn around and grab the trunk of the car. Arbery gets resistant, saying he didn't do anything, and the cop tells him "you're coming up on me and making me nervous.".

Gap of tape between 14:02 and 14:04

14:04 Arbery has decided he's going into his car to get something, the cops tell him not to reach for anything in the car, he's making moves toward the car anyway, when one of the cops panics, and starts tazing him. Weird thing is it does nothing to Arbery. There's just an awkward tazing sound. It'd actually be kind of funny, as Arbery looks around confused, if it weren't so sad what cowards these cops were. There was no reason to taze him at THIS point.

Then Arbery was released...

My bottom line: The cops had every right to check out Arbery. He was parked up on the grass, asleep behind the wheel of his car, in a public park at 2pm. Arbery immediately walked right at the cops. Not a crime, but nothing a normal person would do. When the cop got out of the car after running his license Arbery looked to escalate the situation by yelling profanities at the cops and, intentionally encroached their space. They acted like Keystone cops, bumbling around scared of their own shadows. Arbery looks like an aggressive dummy, and the cops look look like scared pansies.
Why on earth does a cop have to investigate a kid sleeping in a parked car in a park parking lot? A person has the right to be at the park. If he is activity sleeping, he has that right to sleep in a park, just like walking in a park or sitting. The cop had zero right to disturb him. None. There was no cause. And, sleeping in a park is not a crime in the afternoon, unless you live in a hick town where the ordinances are written to make breathing illegal! Moron, hick, hillbilly, Southern ass, slave-owning ancestor, Bible humping, disgruntlement is not a reason to pick on a guy sleeping in a car!
 

MplsGopher

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They said in the video that the area was known for drug activity. It was a weak excuse.

Granted, if he just cooperates with them, they're outta there in no time, "sorry to bother you sir". But, he had a right to be annoyed and angry with them for the false accusations.
 

jamiche

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My take on the video:

Context: Cops find Arbery sleeping in his car, parked up on the grass, in a public park at 1:59pm.

Video:

- The video time line is confusing because it opens at the end of the video, then cuts to the beginning. Follow the time stamps in the upper right hand corner for clarity.

- 13:59 Arbery apparently is woken up, gets out of his car, and walks directly toward the cops. I immediately cringe at the way Arbery handled this. I'm a middle aged White guy who drives a Honda & I would NEVER approach the cops like that. The cop stayed cool, and politely asked for Arbery's ID.

- 14:00 Arbery gives the officer his ID, who politely says he'll "be right back" & heads to his squad car.

- 14:01 As the cop gets out of his car Arbery verbally unloads on him demanding "why you fuqin with me?", to which the cop said "keep your hand out of your pocket", to which Arbery yells "I ain't got shit on me, why the fuq you fuqing with me fo'!?", the cop sounds like he's getting rattled (imo) and tries to take command saying "I'll tell you why I'm here", but Arbery interrupts demanding "why!?. Why!"

14:02 Arbery's told he's being questioned because of drug activity in the park, and pretty much explodes on the cop verbally at that point while stepping into the cop's space in an aggressive manner. The cop is starting to lose control to Arbery, imo & commands Arbery to turn around and grab the trunk of the car. Arbery gets resistant, saying he didn't do anything, and the cop tells him "you're coming up on me and making me nervous.".

Gap of tape between 14:02 and 14:04

14:04 Arbery has decided he's going into his car to get something, the cops tell him not to reach for anything in the car, he's making moves toward the car anyway, when one of the cops panics, and starts tazing him. Weird thing is it does nothing to Arbery. There's just an awkward tazing sound. It'd actually be kind of funny, as Arbery looks around confused, if it weren't so sad what cowards these cops were. There was no reason to taze him at THIS point.

Then Arbery was released...

My bottom line: The cops had every right to check out Arbery. He was parked up on the grass, asleep behind the wheel of his car, in a public park at 2pm. Arbery immediately walked right at the cops. Not a crime, but nothing a normal person would do. When the cop got out of the car after running his license Arbery looked to escalate the situation by yelling profanities at the cops and, intentionally encroached their space. They acted like Keystone cops, bumbling around scared of their own shadows. Arbery looks like an aggressive dummy, and the cops look look like scared pansies.
Just reading this now. I guess it's Trayvon time, craig. Those poor, innocent white guys are damn lucky to be alive.
 

bigtenchamps1899

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Why on earth does a cop have to investigate a kid sleeping in a parked car in a park parking lot? A person has the right to be at the park. If he is activity sleeping, he has that right to sleep in a park, just like walking in a park or sitting. The cop had zero right to disturb him. None. There was no cause. And, sleeping in a park is not a crime in the afternoon, unless you live in a hick town where the ordinances are written to make breathing illegal! Moron, hick, hillbilly, Southern ass, slave-owning ancestor, Bible humping, disgruntlement is not a reason to pick on a guy sleeping in a car!
actually, people sleeping in parked cars is a good indicator of driving impaired. and a cop can investigate anything he wants, that’s his job.
 

MplsGopher

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Even though it is completely and totally tangential to the issue of this thread .... I do have sympathy for uniformed police.

You have to be trained, at least to a certain extent, that someone (a crazy person) could go from completely innocent and unarmed, to rushing you with a knife, in a split second.

How can you reconcile that with needing to deescalate and avoid lethal force at all costs? And cops getting fired and departments sued, when things go wrong?

It's a tough needle to thread, I think.
 

golf

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If guilty, throw the book at them. Difficult thing is the racial component is always assumed and then is generalized by the media into how racist our society is as a whole. Black on white murder and violent crime occur way more often than white on black, but would never guess that given media's narrative. Another example of how our self righteous media is very harmful.
 

bigtenchamps1899

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Then we disagree on just about everything. Then, as a soldier protecting the citizens against tyranny, should I begin hunting you down as a disruption to a free society? Just a rhetorical question.
dean, you got to be clearer about what you mean. 1. frankly, i don’t know what “training in human rights” is. 2. how do you know how much training police do or do not have?
 

GoodasGold

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actually, people sleeping in parked cars is a good indicator of driving impaired. and a cop can investigate anything he wants, that’s his job.
Aren’t you supposed to use the term “vehicles”? Back to training for you.
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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actually, people sleeping in parked cars is a good indicator of driving impaired. and a cop can investigate anything he wants, that’s his job.
Absolutely. If you're a cop, and you're patrolling through a park, see a car parked not in the lot, but up on the grass like Arbery was, with a person asleep behind the wheel, it seems quite reasonable to stop to check out what's going on.
 

GoodasGold

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Absolutely. If you're a cop, and you're patrolling through a park, see a car parked not in the lot, but up on the grass like Arbery was, with a person asleep behind the wheel, it seems quite reasonable to stop to check out what's going on.
nm
 

Costa Rican Gopher

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What the f*ck does this have to do with Ahmaud Arbery? Maybe you should start a White shame thread where you can post about historical racism as your penance for being White, and exercise your mental health demons simultaneously?
 

Goldteam

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Today in Africa, there are an estimated 10 million slaves. That is on the low end. They are all owned by blacks.

That is on May 24, 2020!

Does anyone care? Does Biden care? How about AOC? How about Lebron? Maybe Bad Gopher does? There has to be someone who cares?
 

saintpaulguy

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Today in Africa, there are an estimated 10 million slaves. That is on the low end. They are all owned by blacks.

That is on May 24, 2020!

Does anyone care? Does Biden care? How about AOC? How about Lebron? Maybe Bad Gopher does? There has to be someone who cares?
Reparations for slave owners, am I right? A strict constitutionalist would find the EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION an illegal taking.
 

Goldteam

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Reparations for slave owners, am I right? A strict constitutionalist would find the EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION an illegal taking.
never touched my question! I'll try again.

Today in Africa, there are an estimated 10 million slaves. That is on the low end. They are all owned by blacks.

That is on May 24, 2020!

Does anyone care? Does Biden care? How about AOC? How about Lebron? Maybe Bad Gopher does? There has to be someone who cares?
 

saintpaulguy

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All the worlds wrongs need to be addressed before any of them can be. It’s Zeno’s Paradox of social change.
 

saintpaulguy

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Ok, you don't want to answer. I get it.
Yep, you win The prize. The “black people shoot black people more often than white people shoot black people “ trope isn’t nearly good enough here. You have to point out that “you know, black people also enslave black people”. That’s next level stuff. Children hit other children more than adults hit children. Indians killed Indians before the white man cast a shadow on the continent. Children touch each other commonly, probably less than adults do. There really is an unfairness, and you have really been the bullhorn to keep,us all aware.
 

GoodasGold

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Today in Africa, there are an estimated 10 million slaves. That is on the low end. They are all owned by blacks.

That is on May 24, 2020!

Does anyone care? Does Biden care? How about AOC? How about Lebron? Maybe Bad Gopher does? There has to be someone who cares?
Jared cares. Believe me.
 
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