Anybody listening to the Pitino show?

benlaur

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BGA, the real starting 5 going forward? Seems very disingenuous. The team has basically started two 4th year players, one 3rd year player and two second year players. That is not young. Besides that, roster management is on the coach anyway. Has the coach prepared the team for next year in the event Oturu leaves? I am big on facts and honest discussion, not hyperbole and "what ifs".
Looking at this fairly, the win/loss metrics show he has not done well up to now. He has a worse record than Monson who took on a program that was given the death sentence, worse than Tubby, who was promised a practice facility, and done worse than a majority of his peers in the conference. Objectively, that is not consistent with stellar performance. For example, would he have been hired if you would have known actual results, i.e. that the next 7 year will be worse than the prior 13 (which included the death sentence and substandard facilities)...I assume not.

That stated, it is unclear to what standard the AD and admin expect of him. Maybe from the insiders perspective he is hitting it out of the park (for example, the players love him, off court is great, etc...). It is also somewhat unclear about his future prospects and whether he has elevated the program or not because that is an opinion.

I hope Pitino is able to prosper and I also hope the AD takes a comprehensive look at the program and has crystal clear expectations of the coach.
 

jblass

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The real starting 5 going forward is Soph, Soph, Jr, Frosh, Soph. That's young. Oturu feels old because it feels like he is gone after this year. But the team is young.
Looks to be a solid group moving forward. Next year they will be bigger, stronger, and more experienced. The year after that even more so. Combine that with the recruits coming in and the future is looking good in my opinion.
 

bga1

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Looking at this fairly, the win/loss metrics show he has not done well up to now. He has a worse record than Monson who took on a program that was given the death sentence, worse than Tubby, who was promised a practice facility, and done worse than a majority of his peers in the conference. Objectively, that is not consistent with stellar performance. For example, would he have been hired if you would have known actual results, i.e. that the next 7 year will be worse than the prior 13 (which included the death sentence and substandard facilities)...I assume not.

That stated, it is unclear to what standard the AD and admin expect of him. Maybe from the insiders perspective he is hitting it out of the park (for example, the players love him, off court is great, etc...). It is also somewhat unclear about his future prospects and whether he has elevated the program or not because that is an opinion.

I hope Pitino is able to prosper and I also hope the AD takes a comprehensive look at the program and has crystal clear expectations of the coach.
I think that Coyle's perception of what will happen next year is huge. To keep Pitino he will have to believe that Pitino is going to be able to put together an NCAA bid worthy squad with what he has, who he has recruited and the likelihood of us getting the right pieces in the spring. Otherwise, next year would be torture.

He has to first and foremost think Richard has as good or better a future as alternatives Coyle has on his list and second, believe that Richard can survive and thrive next year.
 

BarnBurner

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I think that Coyle's perception of what will happen next year is huge. To keep Pitino he will have to believe that Pitino is going to be able to put together an NCAA bid worthy squad with what he has, who he has recruited and the likelihood of us getting the right pieces in the spring. Otherwise, next year would be torture.

He has to first and foremost think Richard has as good or better a future as alternatives Coyle has on his list and second, believe that Richard can survive and thrive next year.
According to Badger, that is not even close to the case. A dozen are better than RP according to Badger.
 

Winasota Gopher

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UVA took a big step back all the way to 13-5. They have a offense ranked in the 200's after losing 3 tremendous shooters by playing out of this world defense that is stressed everyday in a way that is very detailed and difficult to get buy ins. They are fully loaded with development and recruiting for the next several years as they identified tremendous fits and talent in the next class and sit great with the following one. They instilled a identity day one. Beard has done the same thing.
Should have known better than to mention UVA....

They took a step back. And the step back was impacted by 3 early departures, something Tony hadn't had to deal with since Shayok left early in 16/17.

As did Texas Tech.

I just said there are better examples of teams reloading after unexpected departures.

Don't take it personally Built, I like Tony more than you do. I went to his basketball camps as a kid.
 

WhoFellDownTheGopherHole?

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I like Pitino and i'm not mad that he was given a shot; his hiring was an exciting gamble that brought some energy and enthusiasm when it happened. However, after 7 years i think we've seen what we're gonna get. It simply hasn't worked out and it's time to move on. With all respect to Richard, i as a fan am ready to try something else.
 

HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving

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Richard gets one more year. He has not run the table in reverse yet. He does just enough to fool us some of the time. He is gone after next year.
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Richard gets one more year. He has not run the table in reverse yet. He does just enough to fool us some of the time. He is gone after next year.
What would be the reason to give him another year? Oturu isn't coming back, leaving us with a front court with little to no returning production or depth, and with another raw incoming PF recruit.
 

HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving

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What would be the reason to give him another year? Oturu isn't coming back, leaving us with a front court with little to no returning production or depth, and with another raw incoming PF recruit.
The reason I said I expect he gets one more year is because team has not completely folded. After tonight it is looking worse. I personally would let him go, I am just predicting the U will not.
 

WoodburyTim

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GopherGangsta is the gutless one here. His screen name couldn't be more of an oxymoron. The biggest coward on this board. You literally are the Philip Nelson of the basketball board: big tough guy who comes in and kicks a guy when he is down - but didn't have the balls to say shit during a single win this season.

We all know the score on the season, but only a select few nutless wonders feel the need to take personal shots at the coach. Try some talk therapy, "Gangsta". Maybe after some breakthroughs you won't need to be such a miserable c--t belaboring the same point over and over to try and gain others' validation.
I don't agree with Gangsta, but just yuck. Your posts are just a clumsy vulgar diatribe, this one included.
 

WriterGoph

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I don't agree with Gangsta, but just yuck. Your posts are just a clumsy vulgar diatribe, this one included.
Seems like more agreed with it than did not.

Over the recent years, it's been clear that you hold yourself in very high regard - a combination of some moral high ground and superior intelligence. So I'm gonna take your criticism as a victory. If you're offended or disagree with me, I'm exactly where I want to be on the spectrum of people on this board.

Cheers and always good to hear from you!
 

Gold Rush

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We suck. But we were expected to suck! Four more years!

IMO, Pitino had to get an A either in recruiting or on the court to buy himself more time. He did neither. I'd give him a C on both fronts. Is this season worse than expected? Only a little. But it's not better. Did he outperform expectations with the Fall recruits? No. So we see little to no progress on either front, and that's from a meh starting point. A month ago he had a chance to get the on court A. He's failed.
In retrospect, this was an extremely bad idea to go with the tough schedule this year. You go with that when you have reached the next level and can handle it. A gravy schedule would have given them a few more wins, an NIT berth and the illusion we are a good, but not great team. But this is just smoke and mirrors and does not tell the true story.

The true story is we have probably the 11th or 12th best team in the big ten and that is when you include Oturu who will most likely leave at the end of the year. This team is badly in need of a new direction and really needs a jolt of energy for next season.
 

WoodburyTim

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Seems like more agreed with it than did not.

Over the recent years, it's been clear that you hold yourself in very high regard - a combination of some moral high ground and superior intelligence. So I'm gonna take your criticism as a victory. If you're offended or disagree with me, I'm exactly where I want to be on the spectrum of people on this board.

Cheers and always good to hear from you!
Just because being an internet tough guy/bully is sometimes popular doesn't mean it is right.

And I don't necessarily find myself morally superior, but I do think calling out boorish behavior is warranted.
 

let'sbeclear

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A. Talk therapy is therapy done through talking and delving into one's internal strife and repressed memories instead of taking psychiatric meds. I assume you're out of high school, so a guidance counselor is probably not a good fit.

B. I don't think anyone is in blind denial here. Most people just don't feel the need to take a shit on Pitino when we have already said we aren't satisfied. This whole post is just piling on the crap that you spew in nearly every game thread after a loss. We get it, dude. We all understand your whole existence on this board is to tell people who weren't ready to give up on Pitino in November how stupid they are and how smart you are. Starting a thread like this one today just makes you look like you have no class and quite literally are capable of no other discourse on this board. Most of probably feel like Pitino is a dead man walking at this point. Does you calling him "gutless" and "pathetic" make you stronger in the chest?
Someone who calls someone else a "c--t," intending it as an insult but thereby objectifying half of all human beings, might not be the best person to put forward the argument that calling someone "gutless" or "pathetic" is inappropriate and may indicate a need for therapy -- though it might well be inappropriate.
 

bga1

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In retrospect, this was an extremely bad idea to go with the tough schedule this year. You go with that when you have reached the next level and can handle it. A gravy schedule would have given them a few more wins, an NIT berth and the illusion we are a good, but not great team. But this is just smoke and mirrors and does not tell the true story.

The true story is we have probably the 11th or 12th best team in the big ten and that is when you include Oturu who will most likely leave at the end of the year. This team is badly in need of a new direction and really needs a jolt of energy for next season.
You are correct on the schedule. He was playing the NET game, but I think it hurt him in a couple of ways. He had a brand new team of players in a hot seat year and he was unable to really test his bench and prepare them for the rest of the year. A little bit easier non-conference might have given a kid like Ihnen a better start or Freeman and Greenlee a better shot at getting their feet wet and reducing the wear and tear on the starters. The other thing the schedule did was it put us so close to .500 that it kind of forced us to be over .500 in the Big Ten to have a tournament shot.
 

GoodasGold

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I strive to maintain proper decorum in all online discussions. ✌
 

Ope3

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Other than home vs DePaul, the other 5 NonConf games vs P6 teams were already set before Amir Coffey declared he was staying in the NBA draft.

Perhaps they could have begged out of the Gavitt game match vs Butler. I'm sure Pitino figured if they did beat DePaul at home, what's the point anyway.

Turned out DePaul was pretty solid through December before they regressed to their mean. I think the schedule would have worked out just fine had they beat DePaul, and either Iowa/Maryland (at home) as well as either Purdue/Wisconsin (on the road). That would have pretty much checked all the boxes towards getting an At Large birth.
 
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WriterGoph

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Someone who calls someone else a "c--t," intending it as an insult but thereby objectifying half of all human beings, might not be the best person to put forward the argument that calling someone "gutless" or "pathetic" is inappropriate and may indicate a need for therapy -- though it might well be inappropriate.
Actually some of us are from the UK or Australia where the word is used quite regularly with no offense taken.
 

let'sbeclear

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Actually some of us are from the UK or Australia where the word is used quite regularly with no offense taken.
Point taken. But, of course, the fact that you didn't spell it out entirely does show you knew this is a message board read overwhelmingly by Americans. No?
 
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builtbadgers

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Other than home vs DePaul, the other 5 NonConf games vs P6 teams were already set before Amir Coffey declared he was staying in the NBA draft.

Perhaps they could have begged out of the Gavitt game match vs Butler. I'm sure Pitino figured if they did beat DePaul at home, what's the point anyway.

Turned out DePaul was pretty solid through December before they regressed to their mean. I think the schedule would have worked out just fine had they beat DePaul, and either Iowa/Maryland (at home) as well as either Purdue/Wisconsin (on the road). That would have pretty much checked all the boxes towards getting an At Large birth.
Turns out that the non con strength of schedule was not that big a deal. few good teams and losing to them hurt and losing to a terrible Depaul team.
 

bga1

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Turns out that the non con strength of schedule was not that big a deal. few good teams and losing to them hurt and losing to a terrible Depaul team.
What is the Gopher schedule ranked on Ken Pom? I like to deal in facts.
 

builtbadgers

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What is the Gopher schedule ranked on Ken Pom? I like to deal in facts.
Everyone knew the conference would be tough, the non con must have been about 75, non of those teams even close to great and several that looked like they would be tough but were mediocre or worse. Facts. I said non con, he does not schedule conference games.
 

bga1

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Everyone knew the conference would be tough, the non con must have been about 75, non of those teams even close to great and several that looked like they would be tough but were mediocre or worse. Facts. I said non con, he does not schedule conference games.
That was cagey... :)
How does the Gopher overall schedule rank compared to the overall schedule of other Big Ten teams, all of which had to play the tough Big Ten schedule?
 

builtbadgers

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That was cagey... :)
How does the Gopher overall schedule rank compared to the overall schedule of other Big Ten teams, all of which had to play the tough Big Ten schedule?
Better but those teams beat way more teams in the conference to finish with way more wins. Coach has repeatedly talked about how hard he scheduled. Was really no big deal.
 

gophereric30

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Better but those teams beat way more teams in the conference to finish with way more wins. Coach has repeatedly talked about how hard he scheduled. Was really no big deal.
Schedule was better obviously as we played more P5 teams. With schedule being the way it was give me purdue, oklahoma, iowa, maryland, and indiana as wins and we are like 19-11. Woulda, coulda, shoulda I know, but hit a couple free throws down stretch, finish games off and we were right there to be 19-11.
 

builtbadgers

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Schedule was better obviously as we played more P5 teams. With schedule being the way it was give me purdue, oklahoma, iowa, maryland, and indiana as wins and we are like 19-11. Woulda, coulda, shoulda I know, but hit a couple free throws down stretch, finish games off and we were right there to be 19-11.
Agree,but on the if, every single team can say that.
 

gophereric30

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Agree,but on the if, every single team can say that.
Exactly, i was just pointing out that this schedule that was supposed to be so tough, basically wasn't any big deal because we honestly should be 19-11 at best and 17-13 at worse.
 

gophereric30

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Agree,but on the if, every single team can say that.
i get what your saying, but not alot of teams out there can say they literally pissed 5 games away. Everyone can say we could have won this or that, but like i said the gophers didn't need to do too much to win those games. It is what it is though!
 

GrampaGopher

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Pitino was for sure in save my job mode. He was selling the 2 out 3 years in the NCAA (even though his Big Ten record is poor), having to work with 3 different AD's (not sure how that affects Pitino), and wishing the state would celebrate the MN kids who commit to the U and not focus on those who leave (if they are contributors history shows that MN cheers their own).

Coach is well spoken, witty and makes points that are reasonable, but the issue I fall back to is this team going to be any different next year. With Oturu probably headed to the NBA, the roster that will have it's challenges: most notably no inside game. That recipe is not going to attract the top MN talent and I just don't see any momentum or consistency building in this program. 7 years is a long enough to get a read on this program under Pitino.

As I have said before on the site, I am a fan of Nikko Medved Colorado State. I like his coaching, his track record at other DI programs, his MN connection. his age, and his staff. I understand that he is a bit of a reach for some, but Coyle showed he isn't afraid to hire coaches who haven't been at the P5 programs (see Fleck and Whalen).
 
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