America doing well under Trump

howeda7

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Yep. And since IRS regs about the new tax law STILL aren't finalized, many have been paying the first 3 quarters of 2018 at their 2017 rates. But once the regs are final they will probably owe little or nothing for the 4th quarter. Revenues will plunge further as of 1/15/19. Yay massive deficits! Brought to you by the party of fiscal responsibility.
 

justthefacts

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Just in case anyone was thinking that this increased deficit was all part of the plan, but that in the long-term it will all work out, note that the Trump OMB estimates had the deficit in 2018 at 56.5% of what it actually hit:

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Section2

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I'm glad we all agree that the deficit is out of control. I hope we all put a ton of pressure on Trump and Congress to cut the heck out of spending.
 

stocker08

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Need to cut spending. Meanwhile....on the other side of the coin....how are those Drumpf tax cuts working out? Exactly how everyone with a brain knew they would.

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bga1

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Need to cut spending. Meanwhile....on the other side of the coin....how are those Drumpf tax cuts working out? Exactly how everyone with a brain knew they would.

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Incredibly well. Under 4% unemployment. Over 3% gdp growth. Individual income tax revenue- up over last year.

The problem is our spending budget. Most of the deficit comes from "mandatory spending" and interest on the debt. We need to reduce dependency and the overall size of government. We could also head towards saving about 100 billion a year in costs of illegal immigration if we can close the borders. A booming economy is the best short term measure towards weaning people off of dependency. By next year corporate tax receipts will begin to rise as we see the first full year of increased corporate income and strategies will arise that are less concerned with tax avoidance and more directed towards business growth.

This is a bipartisan problem of too much spending for too many years. Saying yes to entitlements is easy- but wrong.
 

stocker08

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Incredibly well. Under 4% unemployment. Over 3% gdp growth. Individual income tax revenue- up over last year.

The problem is our spending budget. Most of the deficit comes from "mandatory spending" and interest on the debt. We need to reduce dependency and the overall size of government. We could also head towards saving about 100 billion a year in costs of illegal immigration if we can close the borders. A booming economy is the best short term measure towards weaning people off of dependency. By next year corporate tax receipts will begin to rise as we see the first full year of increased corporate income and strategies will arise that are less concerned with tax avoidance and more directed towards business growth.

This is a bipartisan problem of too much spending for too many years. Saying yes to entitlements is easy- but wrong.
Unemployment....hahaha. Fudged CBO numbers.....discouraged workforce with people not actively looking. Numbers look way better than they actually are.

Massive stimulus into the economy to jumpstart an already healthy economy? Yeah.....way to go Rump.

Tax revenue numbers are lagging WAY behind. They are about to come crashing down and you've stayed completely ignorant to it.

The Dump tax cuts have been a MASSIVE failure thus far. And yet he's trying to sneak extensions through congress. LOL.


And yes.....spending is a huge problem. Entitlements need to be reformed. But until you agree that the defense budget needs to be greatly reduced as well....then you don't live in reality.

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KillerGopherFan

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Unemployment....hahaha. Fudged CBO numbers.....discouraged workforce with people not actively looking. Numbers look way better than they actually are.

Massive stimulus into the economy to jumpstart an already healthy economy? Yeah.....way to go Rump.

Tax revenue numbers are lagging WAY behind. They are about to come crashing down and you've stayed completely ignorant to it.

The Dump tax cuts have been a MASSIVE failure thus far. And yet he's trying to sneak extensions through congress. LOL.

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Sneak? They are looking to make the middle class tax cuts permanent.

How do you “sneak” tax cuts?
 

stocker08

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Sneak? They are looking to make the middle class tax cuts permanent.

How do you “sneak” tax cuts?
Did you hear much about the tax bill a couple weeks ago? Just trying to extend the already failing cuts that benefit himself and his wealthy buddies. Oooo.....and further increase the deficit. Bigly.

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justthefacts

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Incredibly well. Under 4% unemployment. Over 3% gdp growth. Individual income tax revenue- up over last year.

The problem is our spending budget. Most of the deficit comes from "mandatory spending" and interest on the debt. We need to reduce dependency and the overall size of government. We could also head towards saving about 100 billion a year in costs of illegal immigration if we can close the borders. A booming economy is the best short term measure towards weaning people off of dependency. By next year corporate tax receipts will begin to rise as we see the first full year of increased corporate income and strategies will arise that are less concerned with tax avoidance and more directed towards business growth.

This is a bipartisan problem of too much spending for too many years. Saying yes to entitlements is easy- but wrong.
I posted a tweet on the last page, which is also quoted in the first post on this page, that shows that tax revenue is down every month since April. And remember April's taxes were based on last year's rates.
 

KillerGopherFan

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Did you hear much about the tax bill a couple weeks ago? Just trying to extend the already failing cuts that benefit himself and his wealthy buddies. Oooo.....and further increase the deficit. Bigly.

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Yeah, it’s not a big story b/c of all the other news going on, and it will require 60 votes in the Senate to pass it. It was never going to happen, at least with this Senate.

Nobody is “sneaking” it.
 

stocker08

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Yeah, it’s not a big story b/c of all the other news going on, and it will require 60 votes in the Senate to pass it. It was never going to happen, at least with this Senate.

Nobody is “sneaking” it.
Right. It passed in the house but it was never going to make it through the senate. The timing was odd though....considering everything that was going on. It was hardly mentioned. I can't even remember where I heard about it.

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bga1

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I posted a tweet on the last page, which is also quoted in the first post on this page, that shows that tax revenue is down every month since April. And remember April's taxes were based on last year's rates.
Tax collections from individuals are up year over year. Tax collections from corps are down year over year. Next year the corporate tax collections will go up fairly substantially. There is a lag in this that is unlike the individual tax situation where people are automatically having less deducted (and thus paid in)...yet they are making higher wages and more people are working making overall collections go up. This has worked fantastic and will continue to do so...unless the country makes a big mistake next month and stalls the economy by voting Dem.
 

bga1

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So there is a way to get at the facts- go to the US treasury site. It is updated through August and has all the actual results:
https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0818.pdf

Go to page 6

Fed individual taxes net of refunds :

F 2018 = 1.52 trillion
F 2017 = 1.42 trillion
Federal individual income tax collections are up 100 billion

Corp taxes net of refunds:
F 2018 = 162 billion
F 20017 = 233 billion

Corporate tax collections are down 71 billion

Overall government receipts:
F 2018 = 2.985 trillion
F 2017 = 2.966 trillion

Overall receipts are up 19 billion through 11 months

At the same time average take home pay is up over 5% when you combine wage hikes and tax reductions- that's a huge win.

One could say that we would have more revenue if the tax rates were higher- but that would be dishonest, since we would not have the same economic boom going.
 

howeda7

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Tax collections from individuals are up year over year. Tax collections from corps are down year over year. Next year the corporate tax collections will go up fairly substantially. There is a lag in this that is unlike the individual tax situation where people are automatically having less deducted (and thus paid in)...yet they are making higher wages and more people are working making overall collections go up. This has worked fantastic and will continue to do so...unless the country makes a big mistake next month and stalls the economy by voting Dem.
No they won't. There is a lag, but in the reverse direction. Most are paying in the 1st, 2nd and in some cases 3rd quarter 2018 estimates based on 2017 rates while the IRS finalizes the regs. They are overpaid versus what they owe YTD. Payments will plunge in January and be down in 2019. Not up. The deficit is going to get bigger. Bigly.
 

howeda7

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Right. It passed in the house but it was never going to make it through the senate. The timing was odd though....considering everything that was going on. It was hardly mentioned. I can't even remember where I heard about it.

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They snuck it in during the Kavanaugh hearings and snuck is the right word. They knew it wouldn't pass the Senate but now they can go to their rich donors and say "look Daddy, I tried!. Give me $$".
 

bga1

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No they won't. There is a lag, but in the reverse direction. Most are paying in the 1st, 2nd and in some cases 3rd quarter 2018 estimates based on 2017 rates while the IRS finalizes the regs. They are overpaid versus what they owe YTD. Payments will plunge in January and be down in 2019. Not up. The deficit is going to get bigger. Bigly.
You are dead wrong, but this is not new territory for you.
 

justthefacts

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So there is a way to get at the facts- go to the US treasury site. It is updated through August and has all the actual results:
https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0818.pdf

Go to page 6

Fed individual taxes net of refunds :

F 2018 = 1.52 trillion
F 2017 = 1.42 trillion
Federal individual income tax collections are up 100 billion

Corp taxes net of refunds:
F 2018 = 162 billion
F 20017 = 233 billion

Corporate tax collections are down 71 billion

Overall government receipts:
F 2018 = 2.985 trillion
F 2017 = 2.966 trillion

Overall receipts are up 19 billion through 11 months

At the same time average take home pay is up over 5% when you combine wage hikes and tax reductions- that's a huge win.

One could say that we would have more revenue if the tax rates were higher- but that would be dishonest, since we would not have the same economic boom going.
When you talk about YTD, you're continuing to include a lot of taxes paid in 2018 based on 2017 rates. In August 2017 the gov't collected $109B in individual income taxes. In August 2018 it was $106B. July 2017 was $113B and July 2018 was $110B.


https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0817.pdf


Also, $2.966T * 1.027 (inflation) = $3.046T

When exactly will the corporate income taxes take off? Trump's budget for FY18 estimated $355B in corporate income taxes in FY18. https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0817.pdf But so far, 11 months into FY18, the government has collected $163B. As I stated above, the Trump admin cannot claim that this dip in tax revenues was the plan, because their own budget didn't foresee it.

Lastly, do you have a citation on the claim that take home pay is up 5%? Is that median or mean?
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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When you talk about YTD, you're continuing to include a lot of taxes paid in 2018 based on 2017 rates. In August 2017 the gov't collected $109B in individual income taxes. In August 2018 it was $106B. July 2017 was $113B and July 2018 was $110B.


https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0817.pdf


Also, $2.966T * 1.027 (inflation) = $3.046T

When exactly will the corporate income taxes take off? Trump's budget for FY18 estimated $355B in corporate income taxes in FY18. https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0817.pdf But so far, 11 months into FY18, the government has collected $163B. As I stated above, the Trump admin cannot claim that this dip in tax revenues was the plan, because their own budget didn't foresee it.

Lastly, do you have a citation on the claim that take home pay is up 5%? Is that median or mean?
God love you, Man! You are living proof each and every day that if you search the internet hard enough you can find anything, a tweet, an article, a study, to support the angle you're trying to make. It's truly impressive!
 

Section2

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They snuck it in during the Kavanaugh hearings and snuck is the right word. They knew it wouldn't pass the Senate but now they can go to their rich donors and say "look Daddy, I tried!. Give me $$".
those awful republicans with their rich donors. They KNEW it wouldn't pass the Senate. They disgust me.
 

justthefacts

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God love you, Man! You are living proof each and every day that if you search the internet hard enough you can find anything, a tweet, an article, a study, to support the angle you're trying to make. It's truly impressive!
I cited the same website that bga1 cited. But if you have different figures for federal tax revenues, I'm all ears.
 

bga1

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When you talk about YTD, you're continuing to include a lot of taxes paid in 2018 based on 2017 rates. In August 2017 the gov't collected $109B in individual income taxes. In August 2018 it was $106B. July 2017 was $113B and July 2018 was $110B.


https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0817.pdf


Also, $2.966T * 1.027 (inflation) = $3.046T

When exactly will the corporate income taxes take off? Trump's budget for FY18 estimated $355B in corporate income taxes in FY18. https://www.fiscal.treasury.gov/fsreports/rpt/mthTreasStmt/mts0817.pdf But so far, 11 months into FY18, the government has collected $163B. As I stated above, the Trump admin cannot claim that this dip in tax revenues was the plan, because their own budget didn't foresee it.

Lastly, do you have a citation on the claim that take home pay is up 5%? Is that median or mean?
Wages are up 2.8% on the average. Tax rates have been cut by enough to make the rest of it. At $50,000 for example a single person bring home 3% more + any increase in their wages. Add'em up. No I don't have a specific link but I have heard numbers in the mid 5's and it makes sense.

Face it. Under Trump, most people are doing better. The more people that become less dependent, the sooner we can cut the size of government. Dependency is a vicious cycle.
 

bga1

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According to stzroker- everything is worse under Trump. According to Americans....

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stocker08

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Wages are up 2.8% on the average. Tax rates have been cut by enough to make the rest of it. At $50,000 for example a single person bring home 3% more + any increase in their wages. Add'em up. No I don't have a specific link but I have heard numbers in the mid 5's and it makes sense.

Face it. Under Trump, most people are doing better. The more people that become less dependent, the sooner we can cut the size of government. Dependency is a vicious cycle.
Yeah....actually a link would be good for all of those numbers. Because a lot of what we've seen is that real wages have stayed stagnant. And the deficit is soaring under king drumpf. And things are just going to get worse.....

But bootlickerbeej heard differently.....

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justthefacts

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Wages are up 2.8% on the average. Tax rates have been cut by enough to make the rest of it. At $50,000 for example a single person bring home 3% more + any increase in their wages. Add'em up. No I don't have a specific link but I have heard numbers in the mid 5's and it makes sense.

Face it. Under Trump, most people are doing better. The more people that become less dependent, the sooner we can cut the size of government. Dependency is a vicious cycle.
Seriously, how many times are we going to go over this? REAL VS NOMINAL DOLLARS!

http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...e-war-not-going-so-well&p=1597987#post1597987

In real terms, wages are up 0.5% as of the September numbers.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/realer.pdf

This says that the average family making between $50k and $75k got a 1.6% tax cut. https://www.npr.org/2017/12/19/5717...h-of-gop-tax-cuts-will-go-to-the-middle-class

Add it up and it's 2.1%. A far cry from 5%. And again, tax cuts don't compound, whereas wage growth does.
 

howeda7

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Yeah....actually a link would be good for all of those numbers. Because a lot of what we've seen is that real wages have stayed stagnant. And the deficit is soaring under king drumpf. And things are just going to get worse.....

But bootlickerbeej heard differently.....

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We gave corporations a ~25% tax cut. But we're going to take in more tax revenue! Just you watch!
 

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justthefacts

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< fox news tweet about Trump and Department cuts>
How exactly is that going to work? The top 3 departments are HHS, Defense, and Treasury. The vast majority of spending in HHS and Treasury are obligatory (ie, entitlements and debt service.) Is Trump really going to cut the Defense budget after repeatedly lying about passing the biggest increase in defense spending ever?

They're going to end up cutting $15B off of a $779B deficit.

Also, given bga1's previous discussion about entitlement reform, I found this funny:

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bga1

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How exactly is that going to work? The top 3 departments are HHS, Defense, and Treasury. The vast majority of spending in HHS and Treasury are obligatory (ie, entitlements and debt service.) Is Trump really going to cut the Defense budget after repeatedly lying about passing the biggest increase in defense spending ever?

They're going to end up cutting $15B off of a $779B deficit.

Also, given bga1's previous discussion about entitlement reform, I found this funny:

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Maybe McConnell is poorly informed:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ent-cuts-to-plug-us-budget-gaps-idUSKCN1LX254

Trump adviser eyes entitlement cuts to plug U.S. budget gaps


NEW YORK (Reuters) - A top economic adviser to President Donald Trump said on Monday he expects U.S. budget deficits of about 4 percent to 5 percent of the country’s economic output for the next one to two years, adding that there would likely be an effort in 2019 to cut spending on entitlement programs.


As to defense- I think Trump felt we needed a surge in defense spending to rebuild. However, it can be done more efficiently going forward. I would expect that a 5% cut is doable, given time to look at what parts of the defense budget is inefficient. That is a different discussion than the strength and capabilities issues.
 

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Maybe McConnell is poorly informed:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ent-cuts-to-plug-us-budget-gaps-idUSKCN1LX254

Trump adviser eyes entitlement cuts to plug U.S. budget gaps


NEW YORK (Reuters) - A top economic adviser to President Donald Trump said on Monday he expects U.S. budget deficits of about 4 percent to 5 percent of the country’s economic output for the next one to two years, adding that there would likely be an effort in 2019 to cut spending on entitlement programs.


As to defense- I think Trump felt we needed a surge in defense spending to rebuild. However, it can be done more efficiently going forward. I would expect that a 5% cut is doable, given time to look at what parts of the defense budget is inefficient. That is a different discussion than the strength and capabilities issues.
Strength and capabilities are a GIGANTIC money suck. Need to be scaled way back immediately.

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