All Things "The Trump Admin is Objectively Ineffective"

bottlebass

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I will never accuse Trump using rhetoric that is always consistent with his administration. In fact, I made a pretty damning comment yesterday about his sometimes delusional comments.

But, that doesn’t mean that his comments aren’t often strategic. In this case, it’s a push and pull attempt. Trump is the Push and Sec Nielsen is the Pull. Both can be effective. Maybe a little frustrating those countries, but it keeps them on their toes and they don’t take us for granted as they have in the past.

Trump is a grinder.
What you imagine trump doing to you in your bed is your own business, we don't need to know about it.
 

howeda7

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A well-oiled machine at work. Imagine how this will work during a military conflict:

In a major reversal following a presidential tweet, Justice Department lawyers told a federal judge in Maryland on Wednesday that they have been told to try to add a question on citizenship to the 2020 census in a way that's consistent with a Supreme Court ruling.
The change comes after President Donald Trump tweeted earlier on Wednesday that "we are absolutely moving forward, as we must" on the citizenship question, despite statements Tuesday from both his Department of Justice and his secretary of commerce that the administration was printing the census without the question.

Sudden shift
In the Wednesday hearing, another Justice Department attorney told the judge that the administration has instructed printing to move forward without the citizenship question, but also acknowledged the situation is fluid.
The attorney, Joshua Gardner, acknowledged he was now backing away from his statements made only a day earlier, when he suggested that a final decision had been made.
Gardner said that he had "confirmed that the Census Bureau is continuing with the process of printing the questionnaire without a citizenship question, and that process has not stopped," but he said the President's tweet Wednesday morning could change the government's ultimate position.
"The tweet this morning was the first I had heard of the President's position on this issue, just like the plaintiffs and your honor," Gardener told the judge.
"I do not have a deeper understanding of what that means at this juncture other than what the President has tweeted," he said, adding, "I am doing my absolute best to figure out what is going on."


https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/03/politics/census-question-trump-tweet/index.html
 

cncmin

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A well-oiled machine at work. Imagine how this will work during a military conflict:

In a major reversal following a presidential tweet, Justice Department lawyers told a federal judge in Maryland on Wednesday that they have been told to try to add a question on citizenship to the 2020 census in a way that's consistent with a Supreme Court ruling.
The change comes after President Donald Trump tweeted earlier on Wednesday that "we are absolutely moving forward, as we must" on the citizenship question, despite statements Tuesday from both his Department of Justice and his secretary of commerce that the administration was printing the census without the question.

Sudden shift
In the Wednesday hearing, another Justice Department attorney told the judge that the administration has instructed printing to move forward without the citizenship question, but also acknowledged the situation is fluid.
The attorney, Joshua Gardner, acknowledged he was now backing away from his statements made only a day earlier, when he suggested that a final decision had been made.
Gardner said that he had "confirmed that the Census Bureau is continuing with the process of printing the questionnaire without a citizenship question, and that process has not stopped," but he said the President's tweet Wednesday morning could change the government's ultimate position.
"The tweet this morning was the first I had heard of the President's position on this issue, just like the plaintiffs and your honor," Gardener told the judge.
"I do not have a deeper understanding of what that means at this juncture other than what the President has tweeted," he said, adding, "I am doing my absolute best to figure out what is going on."


https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/03/politics/census-question-trump-tweet/index.html
DJT appears to be threatening himself with legal challenges and potential prison time as he leaves office, which could be as soon as about 1 1/2 years from now, god willing. I would assume that unlike the previous criminal in the Oval Office, Nixon, a pardon would be far less likely.
 
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Section2

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Good. It should be a question.


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bottlebass

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I get why illegal immigrants would be against the question being on it, but can someone explain to me why any legal citizens would be against the question?
 

howeda7

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I get why illegal immigrants would be against the question being on it, but can someone explain to me why any legal citizens would be against the question?
The census is about counting the entire population of the country, not just citizens. Plenty of people are here legally and still not citizens. Native Americans weren't considered citizens until the 20th century for example. Census data is used for many things and having an accurate count of how many people live in an area is important. Whether they are citizens or not is not.

The entire purpose of this question is to scare the growing Latino population into not answering the census, leading them to be under-counted and keep more Congressional seats in red areas. As with almost everything the GOP does these days, it's about delaying the effect of the demographic changes occurring in this country and clinging to power.

Even the majority Conservative SCOTUS called BS on it and now Trump is trying to play king and over-rule them.
 
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KillerGopherFan

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The census is about counting the entire population of the country, not just citizens. Plenty of people are here legally and still not citizens. Native Americans weren't considered citizens until the 20th century for example. Census data is used for many things and having an accurate count of how many people live in an area is important. Whether they are citizens or not is not.

The entire purpose of this question is to scare the growing Latino population into not answering the census, leading them to be under-counted and keep more Congressional seats in red areas. As with almost everything the GOP does these days, it's about delaying the effect of the demographic changes occurring in this country and clinging to power.

Even the majority Conservative SCOTUS called BS on it and now Trump is trying to play king and over-rule them.
No they didn’t. Justice Roberts said asking the question is not unconstitutional. The Supreme Ct questioned the process and reasoning.

And the purpose of the census is for determining political representation. From the US Census Bureau, first paragraph:

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/2020-census/about.html

As mandated by the U.S. Constitution, our nation gets just one chance each decade to count its population. The U.S. census counts every resident in the United States. It is mandated by Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution and takes place every 10 years. The data collected by the census determine the number of seats each state has in the U.S. House of Representatives (a process called apportionment) and is also used to distribute billions in federal funds to local communities...

The purpose is not to count everybody who isn’t supposed to be here. That’s probably not going to happen.
 
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Section2

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The census is about counting the entire population of the country, not just citizens. Plenty of people are here legally and still not citizens. Native Americans weren't considered citizens until the 20th century for example. Census data is used for many things and having an accurate count of how many people live in an area is important. Whether they are citizens or not is not.

The entire purpose of this question is to scare the growing Latino population into not answering the census, leading them to be under-counted and keep more Congressional seats in red areas. As with almost everything the GOP does these days, it's about delaying the effect of the demographic changes occurring in this country and clinging to power.

Even the majority Conservative SCOTUS called BS on it and now Trump is trying to play king and over-rule them.
Nonsense.


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justthefacts

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No they didn’t. Justice Roberts said asking the question is not unconstitutional. The Supreme Ct questioned the process and reasoning.

And the purpose of the census is for determining political representation. From the US Census Bureau, first paragraph:

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/2020-census/about.html

As mandated by the U.S. Constitution, our nation gets just one chance each decade to count its population. The U.S. census counts every resident in the United States. It is mandated by Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution and takes place every 10 years. The data collected by the census determine the number of seats each state has in the U.S. House of Representatives (a process called apportionment) and is also used to distribute billions in federal funds to local communities...

The purpose is not to count everybody who isn’t supposed to be here. That’s probably not going to happen.
It's funny that you bold that part because the 14th amendment says that seats should be apportioned according to the number of persons. It doesn't say citizens.

Also

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/statistics-expert-testifies-census-citizenship-question-would-harm-count/2018/11/05/ee0a489a-e144-11e8-b759-3d88a5ce9e19_story.html
 

short ornery norwegian

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No they didn’t. Justice Roberts said asking the question is not unconstitutional. The Supreme Ct questioned the process and reasoning.

And the purpose of the census is for determining political representation. From the US Census Bureau, first paragraph:

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/2020-census/about.html

As mandated by the U.S. Constitution, our nation gets just one chance each decade to count its population. The U.S. census counts every resident in the United States. It is mandated by Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution and takes place every 10 years. The data collected by the census determine the number of seats each state has in the U.S. House of Representatives (a process called apportionment) and is also used to distribute billions in federal funds to local communities...

The purpose is not to count everybody who isn’t supposed to be here. That’s probably not going to happen.
Resident - not citizen. there are people living here legally who are not citizens.

Look, there are politics on both sides here. The conservatives want the narrowest possible interpretation because they think they benefit from that approach. the liberals want the broadest possible interpretation because they think they benefit from that approach.

But in the end, the purpose of the census is to determine a pretty basic fact - how many people live in the US? And where do they live?

Personally, I think re-districting should be taken away from the state legislatures and given to the judiciary. the process has been overly politicized already.
 

cncmin

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Resident - not citizen. there are people living here legally who are not citizens.

Look, there are politics on both sides here. The conservatives want the narrowest possible interpretation because they think they benefit from that approach. the liberals want the broadest possible interpretation because they think they benefit from that approach.

But in the end, the purpose of the census is to determine a pretty basic fact - how many people live in the US? And where do they live?

Personally, I think re-districting should be taken away from the state legislatures and given to the judiciary. the process has been overly politicized already.
Between gerrymandering and the awful Primary system, we are destroying our own democratic republic.
 

bottlebass

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The census is about counting the entire population of the country, not just citizens. Plenty of people are here legally and still not citizens. Native Americans weren't considered citizens until the 20th century for example. Census data is used for many things and having an accurate count of how many people live in an area is important. Whether they are citizens or not is not.

The entire purpose of this question is to scare the growing Latino population into not answering the census, leading them to be under-counted and keep more Congressional seats in red areas. As with almost everything the GOP does these days, it's about delaying the effect of the demographic changes occurring in this country and clinging to power.

Even the majority Conservative SCOTUS called BS on it and now Trump is trying to play king and over-rule them.
Kind of seems like a lot of red areas also have a lot of latinos so that argument doesn't really make sense.
 

justthefacts

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<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

howeda7

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Kind of seems like a lot of red areas also have a lot of latinos so that argument doesn't really make sense.
Define a lot? Many red states do, but they're not evenly distributed. Look at a map of Congressional Districts in Texas or Arizona.
 

bottlebass

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Define a lot? Many red states do, but they're not evenly distributed. Look at a map of Congressional Districts in Texas or Arizona.
That's what I meant, many of the red states have high hispanic populations. I see what you are saying now about the distribution though.
 

howeda7

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That's what I meant, many of the red states have high hispanic populations. I see what you are saying now about the distribution though.
Exactly. Even though they're red states, Rs would be more than happy for Texas and AZ to lose 2-3 Congressional seats due to their population being under-counted in the Census. They'll get to draw the new maps. Guess which color districts will disappear?
 

Section2

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Exactly. Even though they're red states, Rs would be more than happy for Texas and AZ to lose 2-3 Congressional seats due to their population being under-counted. They'll get to draw the new maps. Guess which color districts will disappear?
Hate to correct you, but it's the Russians who told Trump to add the census question, to scare latinos into not answering, to undercount the population in TX and AZ, to cause them to lose 2-3 congressional seats, to get to draw new maps, to result in blue districts "disappearing".

You don't seriously think Trump was playing 8 dimensional chess with that question, do you?
 

bottlebass

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Exactly. Even though they're red states, Rs would be more than happy for Texas and AZ to lose 2-3 Congressional seats due to their population being under-counted in the Census. They'll get to draw the new maps. Guess which color districts will disappear?
I don't really think you are thinking clearly.
 

Section2

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I don't really think you are thinking clearly.
Sure he is. The incompetent buffoon who isn't capable of reading off a teleprompter, was engaging in 8D chess. It's a perfectly cogent argument.
 

justthefacts

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Chief of Staff
Sec of Labor
Sec of Defense
Sec of Homeland Security
FEMA director
FAA director
FDA director
OSHA director
Citizenship and Immigration Services director
Customs and Border Protection director
ICE director
OMB director


All of these roles are currently filled by "acting" leaders.
 

Section2

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Chief of Staff
Sec of Labor
Sec of Defense
Sec of Homeland Security
FEMA director
FAA director
FDA director
OSHA director
Citizenship and Immigration Services director
Customs and Border Protection director
ICE director
OMB director


All of these roles are currently filled by "acting" leaders.
And yet, everything's fine. The illusion that we need these people slips a little more. Maybe that's why you hate Trump so much?
 

justthefacts

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And yet, everything's fine. The illusion that we need these people slips a little more. Maybe that's why you hate Trump so much?
I thought there was a crisis at the border? I thought immigrants were overrunning our country? I thought Iran was a emergent threat? I thought we had a massive budget deficit that threatened our very existence? I'm quite certain that flooding in Louisiana is awful and getting worse.

Trump has had 13 Cabinet members left. At this point in the Obama presidency 1 Cabinet member had left. Robert Gates left on July 1, 2011, having served since 2006.
 

Section2

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I thought there was a crisis at the border? I thought immigrants were overrunning our country? I thought Iran was a emergent threat? I thought we had a massive budget deficit that threatened our very existence? I'm quite certain that flooding in Louisiana is awful and getting worse.

Trump has had 13 Cabinet members left. At this point in the Obama presidency 1 Cabinet member had left. Robert Gates left on July 1, 2011, having served since 2006.
So you disagree with all of your points, which means you agree that everything is fine.


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justthefacts

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Oops

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Cross-indexed to the "Imagine if Obama Had Done This" file.
 
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howeda7

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That red states have plenty of Hispanics so it is counter intuitive for republicans to want them to be under counted.
No it isn't. The districts they reside in are still blue. And those states are trending away from them anyway. They would much rather see Iowa/Ohio gain a seat than Arizona.
 

howeda7

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Oops

<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Cross-indexed to the "Imagine if Obama Had Done This" file.
That darn Deep State. They will stop at nothing!
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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No it isn't. The districts they reside in are still blue. And those states are trending away from them anyway. They would much rather see Iowa/Ohio gain a seat than Arizona.
Good Lord, you say some things sometimes that really make you wonder if you're for real. Are you honestly painting the world with these broad brushes that almost every Hispanic or every African American or any other minority votes almost 100% Democrat? Where in the f'k do you get your information? "Hispanics hate the GOP!!" "Blacks vote Democrat across the board!!"

You might be the most racist person on the board, but you're in the running with many others, to be sure.
 
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